In the summer of 1932, at the height of the Depression, some forty-five thousand veterans of World War I descended on Washington, D.C., from all over the country to demand the bonus promised them eight years earlier for their wartime service. They lived in shantytowns, white and black together, and for two months they protested and rallied for their cause—an action that would have a profound effect on American history.
President Herbert Hoover, Army Chief of Staff Douglas MacArthur, and others feared the protesters would turn violent after the Senate defeated the "bonus bill" that the House had passed. On July 28, 1932, tanks rolled through the streets as MacArthur's troops evicted the bonus marchers: Newspapers and newsreels showed graphic images of American soldiers driving out their former comrades in arms. Democratic candidate, Franklin Roosevelt, in a critical contest with Hoover, upon reading newspaper accounts of the eviction said to an adviser, “This will elect me,” though bonus armies would plague him in each of his first three years. -- The Bonus Army: An American Epic.
The innermost thoughts of an oath breaker.
Meet Sergeant C, USMC.
An article I wish I would never have to write - To those calling for a civil war, this Marine wants you to stop, and think...
Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:13 PM EDT
By Sgt C USMC
It's been said that the military is always preparing for war. That is true. We prepare for combat every day. We ran 5 miles today to the rifle range and shot nearly 200 rounds a piece at targets and then ran back. However, we also pray for peace. I would love one day to be completely unnecessary. But alas, I am a realist, and I know that day will never come.
The headlines of the last week have reminded me more of glimpsing at the S2 Daily Briefing Sheets while in theater or the Al-Jazeera than the NY Times or the Washington Post. Think about that for a moment, let it sink in.
Before I get into the main premise of this article - I need to make two statements here.
First and foremost , when it comes to the back and forth of who did what to whom and why - I don't give a @!$%#. It doesn't change the action. In life we're judged by our actions, nothing more, nothing less. One of the greatest things of the military is when it comes to an enemy, the politics behind the situation - don't matter in accomplishing that mission. For the military , life is simple in that regard.
Secondly, Regardless of your political ideology, you've earned the right as US Citizens to say your piece - no matter how wrong it may be. That is your right, and I will give my life to protect it.
But this government of ours is a democracy. We vote for our representatives, and they vote in our interests. Sometimes, the votes don't go our way. That's life, better luck next time. Exhaust your legislative options, and then focus on gaining the required votes and/or seats to achieve your desired legislative vote next election time. That's the way things work.
But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM.
For those of you calling for a civil war, I implore you to stop and think about what you're saying. Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance.
Now with that vision in mind, stop by your local Marine Corps base, being they will be the first military units you'd face in an all out 'civil war' . Look at them for a moment, examine their 'work environment' . They're running the track, they're climbing ropes, they're grappelling with each other in mock hand-to-hand combat, and shooting targets while moving in raid lines on a daily basis. Nearly everyone on that base, down to our 'secretaries' has a combat award of one type or another, they've faced some of the most stressful situations on Earth where succumbing to the stress can get you killed, and they flourished.
Now ask yourselves and be honest - when is the last time you've run anything other than late to work, climbed anything other than a flight of stairs, grappelled with anything other than a paper jam, and shot off anything other than your mouth? When's the last time you were in any situation more stressful than a traffic jam?
Now I'm not blaming you for your career choice, not in the least. I can't think of a single job that's not useful in some way or another. I just want you to simply compare and contrast your work environment with ours and ask yourselves "Who is better suited to win this battle ?" We both know the answer here, and if you doubt that answer, look at the results from Fallujah in 2004. Over 1200 of them 'lost' and we 'lost only 28. That's a 'win-ratio' of almost 60-1, and they've been fighting their whole lives.
Put this in another scenario. You and your officemates think your local pro football team sucks , so you put together your own team of the best your company has and challenge them to a game. Even if your team might be good, they're professionals. This is their job. Your job is to answer phones and type on a keyboard. In short, they've forgotten more than you will ever know about football. The result, will be a slaughter for you, and a practice for them. But at least you'll get a chance to sit at home, ice your wounds and say 'whew I never should've done that!'
Not so with combat. The results of combat are far...FAR..more permanent. There are no second chances, no time for regrets, and no do-overs. This is not Call of Duty.
Now I 'd like to disperse a myth here - many of you think that US military would not fight civilians. I can't speak for all, but in my case - the moment you declare civil war, you're no longer civilians. The moment you attack the constitution, you're now enemies of that constitution. And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so. And trust me, I'm not alone.
I hope some of you heed my words and cool the rhetoric and focus on achieving your goals diplomatically instead of physically. It would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so.
WHO is attacking the Constitution...?
Well it seems that I remember reading someplace that the Army of King George was the best trained military force in the world in
1775, yet a bunch of farmers tore them to doll rags. How?
Russia, who in the early 80's or so had arguably the second best armed forces in the world poured these forces into Afghanistan against nothing but a rag-tag bunch of towelheads who lived in caves and tents, ate what they could find, and were armed with little. Yet ten years later what was left of the Russian military dragged itself out of Afghanistan in despair, defeated by nothing less than the best guerilla forces on this earth at that moment in time.
With all due respect to your position and training, I think you have missed the point here. No one that I know of, no matter how angry they maybe, is advocating armed insurrection against the United States Military. That would be a debacle.
If such a time should ever come when some citizens felt that they had to do what was necessary to do what the founders of this nation gave them as their duty, I suspect it would be much like 1775 all over again.
John Ross' book, Unintended Consequences, a work of pure fiction, laid out a scenario for what an uprising might look like. And what he laid out was very much like what happened in Afghanistan and the colonies. And the best armies in the world, in both occasions, came out....second!
What a stupid putz of a Marine. He swore an oath to The Constitution, did he ever read it? Does he know the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic? Has he read and understood The Declaration of Independence?
The Constitution's primary aim was to protect the people from falling victim to a tyrannical government. If the government fails to uphold The Constitution, the social contract is negated and needs to be restored.
Luckily for American citizens, not all Marines are as dumb as Sgt. Putz.
I understand his concern for the mass loss of life that would surely come from it, but didn't he take an oath to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic? That includes our Dear Leader, who could become an absolute dictator with a mere pen stroke.
To each his own I guess...
This moron is as wrong as he could possibly be and a little self-examination, or even honest examination of the topic would make this clear to him, but it won't happen. If it hasn't happened yet, before composing such an article, it's just not in his makeup. And he's not alone. I can't say what percentage of our men and women in uniform would follow his broken logic, but certainly some would. I'm not keen on shooting Marines any more than any decent Marine would be keen on shooting American civillians, but I'm not unwilling. And neither are they. I guess it will probably come down to how their leadership feels about the topic.
This guy reminds me of the Vichy French in North Africa.
Defending the indefesable.
Like the Vichy French, he was following his orders. For his country. I guess sometimes, when they put that uniform on, they fail to see who the real enemy is.
You might say, it is some REAL GOOD CAMOFLAUGE.
Yet another brainwashed fool who believes that wearing a government costume makes him a hardened professional.
First, he assumes that all of the experienced Soldiers and Marines will be on his side. Nonsense. Thousands will desert and tens of thousands will drag their feet. And then we have the veterans. Men who fought in Vietnam, Korea and World War II. Men in varying stages of physical decay but all with one thing in common: experience in combat situations that put those of today's Soldiers and Marines to shame. There isn't a single living Marine or Soldier in the so-called Global War on Terrorism whose combat experience equals that of the average combat veteran of previous wars. Fallujah for all of the Marine Corps's propaganda was a mild excursion compared to the Tet offensive and an absolute joke when compared to the Chosin Resevoir or The Battle of the Bulge. Anyone who doubts this can read detailed reports on the campaigns. Or they can simply look at the number of Medals of Honor awarded. Our older veterans may not have the sharpest eyesight but they have the skills and intuition that comes from some of the hardest fighting man has ever seen. Our current crop of troops, no matter how distinguished, cannot match this pool of experience.
Because of this, most of today's Soldiers and Marines, like this disgrace, will cut and run. They've never experienced true deprivation. Soldiers in World War II and Korea didn't have R&R in Qatar. They didn't have Burger King and MWR tents with free internet and phones. Their idea of mass casualties wasn't losing three or four men in the convoy. I've read accounts of the battle of Fallujah and spoken to veterans of the fighting. After the second day, when it became apparent that the Marines would have to go block by block and that the insurgents weren't simply going to cut and run, they became demoralized by the enemy's will. It was only airpower and indirect fire that kept the Marines from losing 500-1000 men KIA and thousands more WIA. Imagine the demoralization that will set in when they attempt to campaign in Wyoming or Montana.
As for all this crap about grappling, shooting and long runs ("five miles, uphill both ways")you can't sh*t a sh*tter. You know what Marines and Soldiers do 85% of the time? Bullsh*t in the motor pool, undergo unrealistic and not very rigorous training and conduct semi-challenging PT. If the only experience a person has with the U.S. Army or USMC at war is what he sees on the History Channel he might believe this crap. I, however, know better. No one in the armed forces, with the exception of a handful of SOCOM units, trains that way on a daily basis. His statements are either pure fantasy or an attempt at making the Corps. look more formidable than it really is. Anyone who's been in the service knows the real motto, regardless of branch, is "Hurry up and wait".
The author of this article overestimates his own abilities, underestimates those of his opponent and has no idea what the Constitution says or means.
- A Fellow Combat Veteran
Obviously, this tard has not read the constitution. For if he had, he would first of all understand that you can not find the word "democracy" anywhere in it. We are a Republic. Secondly, if he had read the constitution, he would not have missed Article 1, Section 8 that delegates what powers congress has.
So far, upon my reading of the constitution ... over and over again ... I can not for the life of me find were congress ... or the president ... has the authority to legislate health care, much less most of what it legislates.
And thirdly Sgt. C. Fake ... there are approximately 20,000,000 veterans in this country. Unless you are willing to use the scorched earth procedure by leveling entire cities and towns ... well ... good luck.
And Sgt. ... YOU HAVE NOT read the constitution.
This guy is probably the same Sgt. I tangled with over at OK'ers awhile back who is attached to NORTHCOM.
I always like it when people are blunt. Makes life simpler. You, my dear Sgt C., were so effective in foreign lands BECAUSE of our support. YOUR fellow Americans work their fingers to the bone for a diminishing dollar so you can eat, workout, train with the equipment, and then rest to prepare for battle. Imagine if you turn our country into a battle ground. Yes, it will be 'Americans' like you who turn your weapons on Americans who are fighting off the yokes of Tyranny and protect the pencil pushing pukes chaining us. The consequences of your actions will be: 1)Your homes will no longer be safe. Do you think you can attack our neighborhoods and we will let yours sit safe and sound? 2)Loss of support by John Q Public. How will it feel if every American is a potential enemy? My time spent in Panama was odd in that we could not tell who would turn on us and we never felt at ease until we left the AO. 3)Your political masters will not hesitate to turn you on your own home areas if need be, and then will you destroy your own?? 4)Every rifle competition I compete in is nearly always won by a citizen, much to the military and police competitor's chagrin - some of us have military backgrounds and some don't, but our sidearms, rifles, optics, local support is BETTER than yours, you idiot. 5) Since you get the gist that you should have some one shove a boot up your arse for what you have stated, let me finish: America is a Representative Republic and NOT a democracy. Learn the difference, boy, before you and like-minded automatons pay the piper. Jerk.
Some Warrant Officer needs to pull that BOY aside and teach him the difference between 'following orders' and KNOWING when to follow orders. The attacks on the constitution are blatantly in the open for him to see, yet he 'warns' the threepers for that violation.
I would have to say that he is in the wrong boat, but if he wants to fire on Americans as ordered, than so be it, We will shoot back, and yes Jr, some of us HAVE BEEN IN COMBAT and know what you were talking about.
What size boots you wear Sergeant? Just asking.
You've got to figure that Sgt C was one of the 30% of the military that voted for King O. Otherwise, how can one explain Sgt C's support for an individual who is not only hostile to the Constitution but also to the military itself. Now, I, along with most every other reader of this blog, hopes to avoid a civil war, but that is up to King O, not us.
"But the SECOND you start committing acts of violence and vandalism, then you've usurped that Constitution. You in a way have assaulted it. And then you and I (I being every servicemember who has sworn to defend said Constitution) will have a MAJOR PROBLEM."
Um, This guy needs to read a few of these documents. The Fed.Gov is NOT the Constitution. I've always thought Marines thought about things less than the average soldier, but I won't hold this against all of them.
And now for an except from a certain Preamble:
"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
And that, friends, is how easy Sgt C and his like-minded comrades will justify killing American citizens. I received an order, and tough luck for you. Don't have to think about it, Thank God, just go out and Git R' Done. The citizen will become no different than the ragheads they have been fighting, and they can apply their recently learned dissociative powers to turn off any understanding and just do a job, which unfortunately involves pointing a barrel at you and pulling a trigger.
See, that's kinda why we're all in a big mess. Everybody just does their job and shuffles papers, or pulls a trigger, without having to think about or understand the task, its downstream effects, or the morality of the leadership issuing those orders. Easy to keep a job that way, isn't it?
I'll bet the idiots at AIG thought they were doing a GREAT job while sawing away at the foundations of our economy. Different discipline, same reasoning as Sgt C.
If you truly feel, in your careful analysis of the state of affairs today, that our "legislative process" is representative of the people's wishes and not that of campaign contributors or lobbyists, that is your right as a citizen. However, if you choose to embrace that belief because it gives you comfort or ease in dissociating while applying your skills in the art of deadly force against US citizens, that kinda puts you in the same league as the Crusaders who cloaked themselves in their religion to murder fellow countrymen in the name of the church.
Maybe, just maybe, the citizens are right this time. Why don't YOU stop and think about the picture outside the walls of your "office"?
On the other hand, maybe it's just easier to keep your head down and do your job. No need to challenge or examine your beliefs that way.
Does he really think a street battle here in the USA, would be treated as the SAME as in Iraq?
So, killing hundreds of Iraqi's BARELEY made the news here. With almost no media/live coverage.
With all the media available here, such an event would explode into the living rooms of all Americans.
The media would have the ultimate scoop, a field day.
Body counts galore, fantastic ratings, etc...........
The pressure in gov, at all levels would be huge.
What did you expect, Mike?
You count on the military as a bulwark against an unconstitutional government. You assume that soldiers and marines will not fire on fellow Americans. You think that military personnel actually, you know, REFLECT on their Oath when they take it.
You assume too much from the majority of military personnel.
You must remember that the bulk of these young men and women have had 12 years of systematic indoctrination in government-run schools. The depth of ignorance about our history and our Constitution would shock the conscience. Even an illiterate Revolutionary-era volunteer knew more about the rights of Men, and the meaning of Liberty, than our "highly educated" force. To these young people, the Constitution is whatever Congress and the President say it is. If Congress passes a law, no matter how unconstitutional on its face, then that law is legitimate. If the President orders them to fire on those resisting that unconstitutional law, they will fire. [Your son, part of a very small percentage, would mark the exception.]
If asked to kill defenseless women and children, our Nation's warriors WOULD disobey that order. If asked to kill armed patriots, in defense of a corrupt tyranny, most of our forces WILL kill.
Let's face it, the Progressives have done quite a number on this country. The moment we gave them our children to mold, the war was lost. They have done such a good job that the term "Constitutionalist" is now a pejorative, akin to "Nazi", "skinhead", "terrorist". They have done the same with the term "militia".
The only choice left is to start over: secession and dissolution of the Union. That may lead to civil war, but it could conceivably be achieved peacefully (witness the amicable dissolution of Czechoslovakia). We must begin, in earnest, the peaceable process whereby the United States of America ceases to be.
The point is that we CANNOT regain Constitutional government AND keep the Union intact. It is one or the other. We've reached a fork in the road, where we must choose between our liberties and our country. To be a friend to Liberty means becoming a traitor to your country, accepting its demise as currently constituted; to maintain allegiance to this country is to betray the vision of the Founders.
Hell of a choice, huh?
First problem is this -- we are not attacking the constiution, we are the ones defending it. Just as you should be doing.
Second problem is this -- you are simply trying to intimidate us with scenarios that won't come to pass. Where will the money for gas for the FA-18 come from, or the high tech weapons, or even the Stryker, if more than half the country is in revolt? It won't be there and given the degree to which the (unconstitutional) federal government has leveraged itself, do you honestly think they can borrow more money from somebody?
Third problem is this -- there are a whole piss pot full of us who also have taken oaths to defend the constitution and we are a hell of a lotter more experienced (and smarter) than either the Iraqis or you.
Sergeant "C" USMC ?
Sergeant "Carter" of Gomer Pyle USMC ?
Give me Gomers Sgt. any day!
Take note that the British Redcoats were the best in the world, highly professional, and far better than their Colonial opponents. Guess who won.
As far as I can tell, no one is calling for a civil war. No sane person would ever want this country to return to the kind of hatreds and brutality of the last time we leveled our weapons at one another.
This Sargeant, along with many in the III Percent movement and Oathkeepers, are overlooking something very dangerous. Any war that divides us will also divide every agency charged with defending us. Our military will have war within its ranks, while much of your fighting will be with equally well-armed and determined neighbors.
The reality of civil war is that everyone loses. It does not matter who eventually claims the military victory, the damage will already be done. Tens of millions will die. People you know and love will die. The survivors will find themselves living in a ruined nation with most of the infrastructure we depend upon totally destroyed and no money left to rebuild it.
The fastest way to hand this nation over to China would be for us to repeat the mistake of 1860.
Prepare? Yes. Stay vigilant? Of course! Now go out there and work for peace! Because the alternative is horrible beyond anything you have yet imagined.
Discord is better for the advantage of piety, than dissembled concord.
But if scandal arise for the truth, it is better to suffer scandal, than relinquish truth.
He is a king who rightly governs, a tyrant who oppresses his people.
He loses all right to government, who, by that government, over-turns the common weal.
He who obeys the law, obeys both God and the law, who obeys the king, a man and a beast.
They are not bound to be loyal to a wicked king, under the pains of perjury.
He that does not keep off injury from his neighbour, if he can do it, is as much in the fault, as he who does it.
But all subjects have right of resisting tyrants, who by open force acquire dominion.
~Daniel Chamier (1564–1621) was a minister of religion in France, founder of the University of Montélimar and author, who was killed in the Protestant city of Montauban while resisting the forces of King Louis XIII.
All antiquity agrees, that tyrants can, most justly, be attack’d and slain, as public enemies, not only by the public, but also by individual persons.
~Barclay, Against Contenders for Monarchy
As a Woodcock, otherwise loud, being taken becomes dumb; so slavery renders some men speechless, who, if they were free, would tell their minds freely.
"Look at them for a moment, examine their 'work environment' . They're running the track, they're climbing ropes, they're grappelling with each other in mock hand-to-hand combat, and shooting targets while moving in raid lines on a daily basis."
This however is true- there are far too many self-described militia men / threepers who conduct range days via keyboard and PT the mandible instead of the more important muscle groups.
Multi-cam and "go faster" vests don't make you shoot better or move faster for longer. One should spend far more time doing road work than blathering on the web.
He gives S-2's a bad name .....
And he should choose his words much more carefully.
I guess they are going to be sleeping in some other country and deploying here for there "frag order" 'Cause if that time comes last time I checked they live here also.....which will make ever trip to the 7-Eleven a bit hazardous with that very distictive haircut and uniform.
Those planes you talk about flying in lazy circles....well they take off from somewhere and it costs a lot of money to train a pilot...who lives off base. Unless of course they want to live the rest of their lives off the coast on an Aircraft carrier.
This isn't Fallujah dumbass, they only reason that you were able to have that 60 to 1 kill ratio is that your supply base is over here in the States...everyone knows where the Colt factory is located as well as the Lake City ammunition plant.
I thought Marines were supposed to be smart, but you couldn't tell from this dumbassess comments.
They first time the Air Forces drops a smart bomb on civilans in the US we will be hanging pilots from lamposts. You think all those civilans at Lockhead and other military contractors are going to continue to make parts and equipment for your stupid asses? Or just maybe, maybe you'll get a double charge of IMR in that 5.56 round you are getting ready to shoot somebody's kid with?
Grow up, nobody wants civil war, but if you are fucking stupid enough to believe that you'll win just because you busted some caps at some Third World dudes in faraway places, your fucking stupider than a bag full of hammers.
Just remember fuckhead the reason we lost the Vietnam war was becase you lost the support of the people at home...and Congress defunded it. Kinda hard to buy ammo with no fucking money, unless of course you intended to go looting.
Thank God my old man....a real Marine is dead, or you just might find out what a old man who has spent more time shooting than you have been alive, could teach a wet behind the ears newbie.
"Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover"
I don't think SGT C has touched a gun in his (or her) life.
There are some of us who are fat and lazy. They will die. But there are some of us who are preping everyday for the possibility of meeting proffesional soldiers like yourself Sgt. C. Some of us fought right beside you but are now out in the civilian world.
Let this sink in and let it sink in real good. It's all in the numbers. No matter how many Marines or soldiers follow unlawful orders due to blind obedience, there are millions of us. And we won't be waiting in a city for sure death like in Falluja.
The political system is broken Sgt. C. But, whether it is or it isn't. At the point that the government starts to enforce unconstitutional law... What should we do then? If they move to take firearms away, are we supposed to wait for the next election? If they try to kill me because I won't pay a fine for not having insurance, and won't be arrested, am I supposed to vote myself out of that? You live in a fantasy world where you think the government will never cross the line.
This all doesn't matter really... You've picked your side, I have picked mine. The time is coming where the government will cross the line and we will see just how things play out.
We are not all amatuers. Some of us will do just fine. So good luck to you Sgt. C. I Hope to God we never have to meet. But, i'm preparing for it...
uhm, this ain't Fallujah, and we aren't hadji's. Were Americans. We fight for better reasons then chopping heads off and the right to beat our women folk.
You aren't the only fella out there with blood on your hands pal. Don't forget that when your re-thinking your decisions.
I am willing to bet that there are many Marines who wouldn't listen to this idiot. I know that most of the people I know wouldn't stand for such a brazen display of unconstitutionality. We have been rather pleasant about all this so far. Now, a buck Sergeant wants to throw a challenge down? Does he not realize that many of us either ARE or WERE in the military? Fighting those same conflicts? Does he not realize that unlike the Iraqis, we can actually shoot straight? That dude is more concerned about following unconstitutional and unlawful orders then holding his Oath.
What rock did this arrogant asshole crawl out from under????? How many in the civilian population has military experience???? There are certainly more OUT of the military than IN!! These folks haven't forgotten their training. Once weapons have been captured they will be turned against the enemy!!
So, it's okay that the political class shreds our Constitution as long as We the People do not react with anything stronger than our vote??? This moron must be the USMC spokesman for Obozo.
To the Sergeant: It will be a cold day in hell before I back away from a fight just because YOU said so!!! I will fight with whatever is available. If I don't have a rifle then I will pick up a pistol. IF I don't have a pistol then I will pick up a knife. No knife then it would be a shovel................... I hear that Castro is looking for sergeants that will crush the citizens.
The problem with busting your butt as a warfighter in some good training is that oftentimes you lose out on the opportunity to get into the nitty gritty about what you believe you're fighting for. I can't recall a single class on the Constitution while I was in the Corps. However, I wasted a lot of time doing uniform inspections -- and I was a grunt.
What this jarhead fails to realize is that have many of us learned an awful lot since getting out. He also discounts how many Marines are going to grab their toys and go home if there were a civil war. There are plenty of Marines wearing civies to work these days. Learning about the real Smedley Butler was a big wake-up for me. It's sad really. I trust when he's got a few years out of the field he'll side with us. But you have to pick a side when the shooting starts.
Education aside, he'd do well to remember how well a small opfor does when he goes out on field ops. If you want a pick a side on a field op, I'll go with the inside out cammies of the opfor. They tend to do quite well. They'd do even better when they aren't hamstrung by issued poodle-shooters,.
Either way, this is a good wake-up to most of the blowhards among us. Your ass better be PT'ing. You'd best be getting your training in because the military is.
Either way, I see mass desertions before any civil war, making one impossible.
He has made the first mistake: underestimating his enemy. It is fatal.
The more I read his letter the more pissed off I become!!!
Hey moron, can you come down from your throne and talk down to us some more??????? Your letter is nothing but a threat to the American people. We are tired of being poked and spit upon by maggots such as yourself. You're not dealing with a group of 18 year old kids here.
Here's an idea for you. Go and tell your Telepromter-in-Chief that the American people said, "Shove it up your ass!!" Here's another thought: "Go shove it your ass too!!" Traitor!!!
I hope you know that many, many of us are combat veterans like presumably you are. My eardrums were, in fact blown in combat. My frag wound scars are still visible. My US Army Infantry paratrooper E-7 son is currently deployed to Afghanistan. He is on our side.
I know, you're a marine, the toughest, roughest bad-ass on the planet. If you're trying to scare me because you don't agree with my God given right to my opinion, so be it. But don't ever make the mistake of thinking I'll be scared to face you and yours. You might get a frag order to deploy against me. But another unit might be deployed to where your family lives. And the fact that they're non-combatants will not matter one bit when the bullets and arty flies. Bullets pretty much have "to whom it may concern" on them, so you can't count on your family being safe. So, sergeant, don't be too quick to deploy against me, lest you put your own in jeapardy by doing so.
The sword cuts both ways boy.
We don't want war, but we won't run away from it. How many people are currently serving in Uncle Sam's Misguided Children? How many is 3% of the US population? Do the math.
If it is our fate to oppose each other in battle, I'll be looking at you, not running away.
We hear the beat of distant drums
the sound draws near, it comes, it comes
and with the beat, the war, it comes
Are we too frail to take up arms
and go to the beat of the drums, the drums…
Our nation’s heart; its soul, it cries
for the beat of the drums to come, to come
and with the beat lost liberty comes, it comes
If you want me to stand down and give up my arms:
It is depressing to see an article proudly proclaiming that a non-commissioned officer in the USMC will disregard his oath to follow the orders of an illegal regime.
The gentleman does not seem to understand that it is well within the constitutional measures to use violence to put the government leviathan back in the box. When a government oversteps that enumerated powers as listed in that revered document it automatically becomes illegal. For the members of the U.S. military to fulfill their oaths, they would have to act against the government right now, but many will not act.
I fully expect the military (or a majority thereof) to follow the illegal orders of the current regime. Yes, they will attack citizens. Yes, they will wantonly destroy the very thing they were supposed to protect. Yes they will attempt to use overwhelming force to stop us.
We have learned though. The much vaunted military is having grave difficulties putting a lid on their current theaters of operation. How much worse would it be to have to fight IED's in Waukeegan as opposed to Kandahar? How much more difficult would it be to see those familiar things of their lives turn against them. The French Resistance and the V.C. have taught us much about asymmetric warfare. Many of us have experienced those lesson personally. Every F/A-18 that attacks will destroy Tory targets as well. This will drive the middle into one camp or the other. Do not buy into the myth of the "Surgical Strike." There is ample evidence that this cannot be maintained. How damaging to morale would it be for soldiers to have to travel in convoys through the streets of Peoria like they must in Kabul?
I beg all those currently under the colors to truly read the document you swore to uphold and ask yourself who is truly the greater threat.
I see the brave warrior pussy deleted his article....well that didn't take long for him to fold.
Thinking is not his strong suite, our government is not a democracy, it is a republic. There is a difference. The constitution gives me powers to correct a wrong/tyrannical government. If they overstep their bounds YOU are honor bound to protect and defend the Constitution, not some dumbass wanna-be usurper. If you break your oath you are a disgrace to the corps and will be dealt with. Semper Fi.
Where did you find this gem? He needs to be sent to Oathkeepers.
Just noticed the link, and when I opened it......
"This article was deleted by the author."
Obviously a man of conviction......
Your thinking is just a wee bit flawed. This IS NOT a democracy. The United States Of America is a REPUBLIC.
You fail to see the destruction of the Constitution at the hands of those (albeit legally) elected officials and yet you make it clear you will take up arms against citizens... your family, friends and neighbors who are also willing to fight, and die, to protect that same Constitution.
It kind of sounds to me as though your allegiance is to a party or person rather than to this country and it's Constitution.
Therefore Sir, although I pray a civil war can be averted, if it is not and we are forced into the field of combat, you and I, I will not hesitate should you enter into my sights.
So here we have it. A fair warning between two Americans, perhaps about to fight to the death for those things they hold dear.
I've heard that exact same speech before. Well, not exactly, but close enough. It came from my old high school / football buddy and retired US marine.
After questioning him in depth with regard to his duties and the Constitution - he spewed out his pavlovian induced diatribe about how "Marines follow orders".
Same song, second verse...
If push comes to shove, there will be MANY more combat experienced Marines and Soldiers on our side.
Well Sargeant C, Let me give You something to think about. When My Fore Fathers took up Arms against the Tyrant King George. This so called King Commanded the Best Trained, Best Equiped, and Stongest Army and Navy in the Entire World and that Army/Navy WAS defeated by a Army of Farmers and Craftsmen and a Navy of Fishermen and Merchants. And I ask You to Stop and Think about what You are Saying and Which Constitution it is that You say You defend. Is it the One that Set Limits to the Power of the Federal Goverment. Is it the one that was Ammendended first by the Bill of Rights, that Doe´s include a Second Ammendment that´s sole Purpose is to Insure that ¨We The People¨ would Always and Forever have the Power and Means that If IT Did Become Nessasary to remove by Force this Goverment that has become Tyranical. And Dishonors and Disrespects and Even Ignores this Constitution. If you Sargent would defend and enforce the Rule of this Goverment. Then You Sargent would be as Guilty as they are of Betaying this Constitution that was and is set up to Protect the People from Ever having to live under the Tyrants Rule. And in closing think of one more thing when the Kings Army/Navy Lost the war THEY went home to a land across a vast sea where will you go home to Sargent. I Realy Do PRAY Daily that this will not be. But if it doe´s and You do not change Your Mind then I guess that I will see you on the battle field and perhaps you may see me.
Looks like the "marine" has deleted his post.
I think he wasn't and was simply a lying POS who was trying to suck in volatile responses as a trap trying to backtrack patriot posters.
Since the majority of the comments were "pro" his view and those that weren't had cogent relevant arguments, I think the agency that put this out pulled it as a failure.
Good on you for copying it on your blog.
Exactly. The Corps produces some fine men and women. This guy isnt one of them.
"And I swore to defend and support and if necessary give my life for that Constitution and utilize every tool, technique, and weapon at my disposal to do so."
He ought to take some time to read it then; he might realize we actually live in a republic, albeit one that is seriously ill. I've a feeling he equates the constitution to the Federal government. I wonder how he'll feel about about the consitutionality of beating protestors or rounding up dissidents if it comes to that?
It looks like Sgt. C's original linked post on Newsvine has been "deleted by the author". A Vietnam era Sgt/Maj probably braced his fuzzy-faced @$$ against a bulkhead, and chewed his ignorant brain housing group into sawdust.
Thanks Mike, for making sure that everyone here had a chance to read his classic "we're the enemy" post.
Another galactic-level, Constitutional education FAILURE.
We've GOT to take the public schools back, folks. Garbage IN, garbage OUT.
I don't think this dumb-shit jarhead understands how 4th Generation warfare works.
I'd like to take the time to say that you, Sergeant C, are a disgrace to the uniform and should be forever stricken from the rolls of United States Marines.
I am more believing it to be a false flag op now.
He was getting BS called on him, ala' a comment that another reader replied to:
Sgt C. in an earlier Comment you said this.
"MJV, in Fallujah in 2004 - we entered into their territory. They had every advantage one could in a MOUT situation. We killed over 1200 of them, and lost roughly 25 in 3 days of street to street fighting. They had RPKs, RPGs, and AKs.."
I have to ask were you ever there? as an 0321 on the ground in November of 04 for Op Phantom Fury your statement frankly offends me. We lost 95 men and over a 1,000 of us were sent home for the rest of our lives. My career with with Marine Recon and the Corps ended that on the marine corps B-day Nov, 10th 2004. the insurgents lost about 1,500 so how was that a slaughter? I could google and come up with better stories than some of the ones you are trying to feed these people devil dog. If you were there you would know that they also had russian 88, and 105mm hvy mortars, as well as light foot mortars, and the whole damn place was rigged to blow due to the ied factories that were found afterwards. I read your article and and felt pride for you the way I alsways feel pride for my nco's when they they have an workiong brain housing unit. I see the Corps must have let the bar slip down a notch."
Stupid fucking jar-head.
I suspect he may never have even read the the Constitution. If my suspicion is correct, I challenge the authority of anyone who swears an oath to uphold and defend a document he/she has never read!
He works for the government and he knows from where his pay comes.
....and so it goes back to the issue of when to shoot the lieutenants (or sergeants)?
I declare shenanigans on that 'letter' -- the vernacular does not fit. Some things that are written there do not fit the way we talk. Some of the things that are written in there do not fit what happens on a daily basis. It is glorified and romanticized. It doesn't fit.
Almost forgot - there was another well-known name that took part in the heinous actions against the Bonus Army, besides MacArthur, there was a young officer by the name of Dwight Eisenhower....
"This article was deleted by the author."
Well now; how 'bout that?
"I hope some of you heed my words and cool the rhetoric and focus on achieving your goals diplomatically instead of physically. It [sic] would never want to receive a frag order to Maryland, or North Dakota, or Texas, but it is an order I will follow no matter how much it pains me to do so."
OK, I've been out of the service some years now, but this sounds odd. Maybe the slang has changed. But "frag" wasn't an order in my time; it was what happened to dangerously incompetent ossifers and the like.
And while I do think some military members would obey unconstitutional orders to disarm law-abiding civilians, this willingness to "frag" entire states sounds over the top.
Sounds like more liberal BS to me. Probably a feeble attempt to make threepers fear Regular military and back off.
But Sgt. C, telling people like me that you're willing to kill us for objecting to enslavement isn't exactly going to make us act more "diplomatically".
Think on that, and think about the fact that I and many others expend a little more than 200 rounds per day at the range.
And remember; a lot of us are mil veterans. Maybe we don't run five miles every day any more. But we know our areas. We know our limits. We know what works.
But Mike, I think this was really only just another tough-talking lib, and not the real thing at all. My experience with Marines is that they'd react with extreme violence to a real threat to the country or their unit, but wouldn't go out of their way to threaten protesters throwing bricks through windows of unoccupied buildings operated by socialists.
I openly doubt that whoever wrote that ever served in the military in any capacity. It is simply "too perfect" in its logical fallacies.
You should have been required to actually read the Constitution before you pledged to it. You seem to believe that our Constitution is whatever the current political hacks say it is. You are wrong. I am angered by your blind obedience. You do not represent Americans. You represent yourself and whichever political party currently holds your reigns.
You may want to spend some time studying tactics if you think your approach and methods in Fallujah will work here. Against us.
I'm sure guys like that have forced poor Mike into major rewrites of some sections of "Absolved".
I don't think all the military will sit out.
well, anyone going toe to toe with a platoon of USMC, will see hell up close. But any USMC that takes shots at American civilians will lose the support of the people in a freaking hurry.
I feel sorry for Sgt C, USMC. He needs to tune into the politics, before he is a statistic.
And secondly, you are such a misinformed, ignorant, arrogent TOOL, it makes me physically ill to know that you are not only an American, but one that bears the title of a Marine.
And however much it would pain me to kill a marine, even one as traiterous as yourself, I would do it in a heartbeat, if you were following any such such orders to attack and fire upon American civilians.
So remember that, Sgt. And I promise you I'm a better shot than any raghead you might have encountered in the sandbox.
Sick to my stomach..
I wonder what intolerable act it would take for him to say 'enough'.
I remember as a very young child watching a movie, I was too young to recall the name of it, I vividly recall one particular scene because it seemed so odd to me. A soldier in dress uniform was standing at attention while an officer was standing in front of him. The officer cut off the brass buttons of the soldiers dress uniform one by one. I asked my father what he was doing and he essentially replied that the soldier had done something disgraceful and was unfit to wear the uniform. They were literally cutting the uniform buttons off of his body in a symbolic ceremony of sorts. I haven't given thought to that scene in over three decades until now.
Sergeant C, you are a disgrace. You are unworthy to wear the uniform. The elected usurp the Constitution and, because you are trained to disregard the politics involved (e.g. you are not trained to think for yourself), you don't give a crap. Tell me again about that oath you swore to defend and what you are doing about it now.
But, woah, should the citizens rise up in precisely the same manner our Founding Fathers instructed us to do when faced with enemies of the Constitution ruling in tyranny, you still cannot perceive right and wrong or who is really the bad guy! Absolutely disgraceful!
We make no claim of being better suited to take on trained soldiers, but those who fought in the Revolutionary War were ill-suited to do so as well. They took on the greatest military force in the world at that time and despite having fewer supplies they won. We have that same passion with sufficient arms to pull it off as well.
You want to focus on training and firepower in an effort to convince us we are wrong, but since you aren't capable of figuring out who the real enemy is here I can't put much faith in your personal opinions. Good Lord man, you sound like the SS of Hitler's day.
I do not imagine there any many soldiers like you, the Oath Keepers proves that point.
Let us hope those who violated the Constitution reverse the error of their ways before this really does escalate into civil war. But if it does come to that (it will be their decision entirely) then some of us are going to have a nice collection of brass buttons.
Hey Sarge.....what you describe is not Democracy, but a Representative Republic. Except they ain 't representing us anymore.
Hopefully no one missed the tacit admission that this puke just admitted he'd have no compunction shooting your children, even as they're running away. Nice touch.
Anyway, thanks for the heads up Sargent C. Nice to know the ROE ahead of time.
You salve your conscience your way, I'll salve mine.
I don't think that dolt understands the Constitution,Bill of Rights or the Declaration of Independence. All 3 directly contradicts everything that he spewed forth. They all state that if every other way has been tried it is our DUTY (yes, his too) to overthrow the tyrants. I could go on to say that brainiacs like him are why some people call Marines sandbags on the beach.(apologies to all good Marines.
Not so much arrogant as lacking the whole picture. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, his service to our country has earned him that as well as my thanks.
And say he's completely right in regards to preparedness. The USMC is professional grade, we're at best the toy store version (I will speak for myself). Even at 60 to 1, though, the USMC is outnumbered by civilians. But before we get to that... I wanted to say I agree with Crusty on the question. WHO is attacking the constitution?
I hope the dear and beloved Marine understands what has happened to our legislative and electoral process through slow erosion over the years. In short, the Dems are the party of evasion, hiding who they are till they have the power they need to pull off their darkest designs for the Constitution and the People.
While he makes a good argument, the premise is totally wrong. If a Civil War comes, it will be because we are DEFENDING ourselves and in the process defending that same Constitution. Of course, the COC will have told him that we are the aggressors, that we are the ones who fired the first shot. (hard to do when it's coming from your house in answer to another).
So riddle me this, how will the USMC be given a legal "frag order" to any domestic destination if we do not shoot first? Can't happen. Because the USMC would be deployed in a law enforcement act in violation of Comitus Posse. In which case, they themselves would be breaking their oaths, hence attacking the constitution, and heaven help us, slaughtering their countrymen and legitimate employers. Which is why it is exceedingly important that we not shoot first and that we denounce anyone who thinks it's cute to put a bullet through a window instead of a rock. And there's one point I strongly disagree with the Marine - vandalism is a misdemeanor. Last I checked, it in no way makes you an enemy of the state or the constitution. It would have to be unconstitutional, would it not, for it to be so? Out of your jurisdiction. Follow a frag order for that sort of activity and you've violated your oath. I won't go so far as to say he has yet, but he seems able to go there.
I pray to God there are some Marines out there taking the time to educate themselves on the finer points of domestic operations and parliamentarian process. The later should afford them a clear understanding of who has been attacking the constitution and why the former should be a no go.
Maybe there's some perfect symmetry here... he's willing to give his life for this country and so are we. I just hope when the dust clears, it was worth it. The sad thing is that a small group of bad actors has led us all to this point, much to their secret glee I no doubt.
He took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. So if he and others like him cannot tell the difference between the ones in power and "we the people" then he will just have to bring it on when his officers tell him to, and if they don't, then what.
First of all Sgt. C this is a republic not a democracy.
When We The People have exhausted all plausible, moral, peaceful avenues to obtain redress from a government that has usurped the very Constitution that you and many of us have sworn an oath to protect then it becomes incumbent upon We The People to make necessary changes.
I too have been in combat. It's ugly, people die horribly including women and children. I do not advocate a bloody revolution or a civil war and pray to Almighty God it never happens, but when a tyrannical government pushes us to the brink of communism and does it by voter fraud and usurping the Constitution then We The People have little or no choice but to reclaim what is rightfully ours.
This government may not be the most corrupt in our history but it is corrupt. The looters in CONgress write and pass laws that we are subject to excluding themselves and all of it done in direct conflict with our Constitution.
I would suggest Sgt. C. that you rethink your stance and get a few points correct before you even think about telling me or my brothers and sisters where the bear sh*ts in the woods.
Some of us have been around a hell of a lot longer than you. While I may not be able to run 5 miles to and from the rifle range any longer you better believe I can still shoot and I DO NOT MISS.
I will NOT bend over and cry for mama if you and your brothers decide to follow orders. But following an illegal order and using that as cause to kill fellow Americans is a cowards way out Sgt. You shoot at me or anybody I care about and you have made yourself our enemy.
Just remember one thing Sgt. C. you are also a citizen, sworn to protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and that means leftist politicians currently in power who belittle and subvert the Constitution to their own ends.
You best rethink exactly who the real enemy is.
Damn sarge.I thought it was the Communist who was attacking the Constitution.Straight out violated it.Pelosi laughed at it,Obama doesn't worry about procedures (constitution),but you Are gonna come after American people who do love the Constitution.Damn I'm gonna be sick.
Wow, maybe the Marine Corps needs to update their American History lessons. From the Declaration of Independence:" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government". No one is fighting the Constitution were fighting for it. This sergeant needs to start thinking for himself instead of parroting the conformist line. By the way I served in the Marine Corps from 83-87, I love this country and no I don't climb ropes, and run 5 miles every day but by God I will defend this country to the best of my abilities,foriegn and domestic.
You can have a 60-1 ratio of enemy casualties to your casualties when you have open rules of engagement that allow you to bomb, shell, and destroy everything in the vicinity of an alleged enemy combatant. 2000 lb bombs and artillery are not surgical, will kill many innocents, and will have substantial collateral damage both to innocent humans and property.
Frankly, the USMC and USAR didn't give a shit about collateral damage in Fallujah. The rules of engagement at home against American citizens are very different. If you want legitimacy, you have to be extremely precise and have a zero body count for innocents. If the government chooses to use the same tactics used in Fallujah on US soil, it will loose all semblance of legitimacy AND a substantial percentage of American military and law enforcement will not tolerate such butchery.
By Sgt C USMC... "Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum."
This character has obviously never had a mortar round go off around him. Mortar rounds are notoriously not impressive unless you are bracketed by several at once and it's difficult to sort out the shifting lines of fire they are following, or you are just extremely unlucky with the first two rounds. At least I was never impressed and our camp was mortared all the time. This idiot is confusing mortar rounds with bombs or artillery rounds which get impressive really quick.
This is moron mole, Mike. A wannabe virtual psudeo warrior who probably can't even hit the toilet bowl two times out of three when the dickless wonder is sitting on it. Too bad a real Marine can't have a chat with this phoney and Semper Fi his ass for him.
The more I think on it on it,the more pissed off I get.As already pointed out Dumbass we are a Republic not a democracy.You are actually violating the Constitution now by allowing the socialist to violate the Constitution.Sir I have known some Damn fine Marines and you are not fit to wash their underwear.What i heard from you makes you a Traitor.Rot in Hell.
He simply cannot be one of Uncle Sams Misguided Children.. I refuse to believe it for a minute.
Do what you must do, Sergeant, but you won't be shooting foreign speaking young men who hate your guts, and who live thousands of miles from your home.
No, you will be shooting former and retired soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who watched over and guarded you and your country when you were a child. You'll be shooting them in back yards where American flags are flying, and have been flying for longer than you've been alive. You'll be shooting people whose only crime is trying to restore Constitutional law.
You will be watching old men and old women bleed their life into the soil they toiled their entire life to turn into productive farmland, but were trying to save that land from the thieves in DC who sought to redistribute their wealth.
As you watch them bleed out, take a minute to check your six. You might be doing what you think is your duty, but your squad might not be as enthused as you to eliminate those troublesome patriots. That quiet little PFC from the backwoods of Georgia might decide that he swore an oath to defend the Constitution, not become an unthinking hit man for a Marxist president.
Go ahead, shoot your neighbor, pastor, fire chief, Sunday school teacher and nurse, for Obama, Reid and Pelosi. Wh knows, if you do a good job, and survive a fragging, they might promote you to Cadaver Czar and you can enjoy counting American bodies. If by any chance your side loses, I'm certain the Nuremberg defense will work for you. That's what the SS thought.
Do yourself a favor, Sergeant, and read the Constitution again. Read it carefully and compare the thoughts of the men who wrote it to those who hold office in Washington today. You might decide to change your mind.
But as I said, do what you must. We all have our calling and mine will be greeted and accomplished with a clear conscience.
"MSGT S, USAF retired...Oath Keeper"
As I was reading the comments and clicked to the next page, it said "article deleted by author."
An interesting post.
But, it certainly stinks of PSYOPS.
It obviously was written by someone who doesn't quite speak the lingo, but is nonetheless trying to calm the waters under the orders of the statists who are defying the Constitution, and who are actually becoming rather nervous that the Bill of Rights contains guarantees of God-given rights to citizens, and these same citizens will not simply give up these rights with a promise of "bread and circuses". (After all, who are the militia but simply all citizens?)
Also, it is worth pointing out that there are many warriors here, both hot war warriors and cold war warriors, as well as a smattering of key board commandos. Distinguishing the differences among these various types is worthwhile. Don't ever understimate the value of experienced cold war warriors in a 4G warfare scenario, to keep the 0321 types with a list to fill. The key to winning a war such as appears to be coming is for 4G warriors of all types simply to disperse into society whenever necessary. The key for individuals such as the "Marine" to survive a war such as appears to be coming is to come to a realization right now that in a 4G warfare scenario, there are no set piece plays such as he speaks, with US aircraft bombing civilians and urban areas willy-nilly. Rather, he (or should I say, she) needs to decide up front which side of the Constitution to be on when the balloon goes up. Pick the wrong side, and the people will simply add this individual's name to the "Mussolini list", suitable for eventually hanging of one's corpse upside down by the heels in the square for all patriots to see when it ends.
As for 4G warriors, the key to preserving Freedom is to recognize that the time to act is before one's side becomes too weak to resist successfully. Wait, as the "Marine" recommends, and the weakening of the 4G warriors' side pushes the advantage to the statists. In another 3-5 years, urban-capable weapon-laden UAVs will be able to control air spaces in urban areas, negating some of the 4G Warriors' current advantages. Advantages are the least durable aspects of 4G warfare; technology can easily switch the balance point of the warfare scale over even a few months.
As for "liberty or death", Patrick Henry had the right idea. The statists simply do not understand what they are starting. They need to back down now, before it is too late.
I can't see that I have anything to say that hasn't been said. Most commenters here expressed the correct ideas.
But for Greyhawk.
Most of us here have seen the results of war. In far away countries, yes, but do you think we haven't given thought to it happening here?
Don't assume that you have thought things through more clearly than I.
Perhaps you should think about sentencing our children to life under socialism.
If you can accept that, then give away your copy of the Declaration and the Constitution. Don't celebrate the 4th of July.
Don't cheer for us when it's over.
After reading all the comments, and thinking about it a bit, I believe that those who think that letter was a put-up job are right.
Every FED alphabet agency there is hates everyone who is in the least critical of those in power. Kinda like calling someone out on the street.
Many different agencies are more than capable of this kind of thing for reasons that make sense only to themselves.
The fact that the letter was almost too perfect, and missing a few details here and there makes it suspect to me and others.
They went after Randy Weaver by trying to infiltrate various undercover guys. They went after David Koresh the same way. They routinely try to infiltrate every anti TPTB group going. That seems to be their stock in trade.
All of these agencies hire guys who have little experience with anything but college. But are eager and willing to follow the party line.
I have wondered for a few days if they would crash the site at some point, but have concluded they might be reluctant to do so as it might just fuel the fire even further. So infiltration makes sense for them to try and get inside so-to-speak.
Nothing they would do would surprise me.
I am friends with a few Marines who are still active duty, and they feel quite the contrary. This guy is as misguided as the National Guardsman who said "you don't know what you might have to do..." during Katrina. We fight FOR the Constitution...for Liberty! We have a Republic (if we can keep it), not a democracy! This poor wretch cannot say for certain that all Marines would fire on fellow Americans, as I have been told differently by men I trust with my life.
The worst part is that this sorry bastard has no idea what it is most of us stand for. He doesn't get that we are trying to restore the very thing he swore an Oath to defend. He can't grasp that minor acts of vandalism and civil disobedience are meant as a prophylactic against civil war. There are plenty Sgt. Putz's out there just as there are plenty Marines who would gladly frag him for standing against their countrymen...I'm not too far from Camp Pendleton and I sleep plenty fine at night.
Of course, Sgt. C doesn't take follow his line of thought to the hard, final conclusion. IF it comes to civil war, there won't be rear areas or safe sectors anywhere. While he's out fighting those he feels are "attacking the [C]onstitution," he's not at home protecting his family. Judging from examples like Bosnia, Rwanda, Somalia, Northern Ireland, Sri Lanka, Mexico, etc., his loved ones will be being hunted by others. He himself will be hunted while off-duty.
Civil wars are never pretty, but they've gotten even uglier in modern times. Add in the fact that everyone in a US civil war will have access to an exceptional communications system and fairly amazing people-locating software/services, the impact on combatants families (on any side) would likely be staggering.
Not a pleasant scenario to think about.
Sergeant C, cut the DI act, you are not talking to some Poolees or stinking recruits. Please reflect on what you are saying to men that will look you in the eye, not run.
Wow!!! So many phenomenal comments, so many good brothers that I would go shoulder to shoulder with any time, any place against any foe!
As for the 'Sgt Cunt' or whatever the person's name might be, it is not likely that he is Corp... or as Dear Reader would say, "Marine Corpse"... as the Corps usually does not take in people who are as obviously mentally defective as that chest-beating imbecile.
NOTE TO "A Fellow Combat Veteran
March 27, 2010 4:09 PM"
You have my snappiest salute and you summed this thing up to perfection. Not to sound depressing or morbid, but a lot of guys in our age group not only have the knowledge and the ability but frankly, some of us are at a stage in life where we don't give a damn about facing death and figure, what the hell, it's coming soon anyway so make it count.
Bitter Clinger - You got a belly laugh out of me with that one! Still laughing !!
I would add - what size panties, too - XXL Plus?
TB in Idaho said...
Almost forgot - there was another well-known name that took part in the heinous actions against the Bonus Army, besides MacArthur, there was a young officer by the name of Dwight Eisenhower....
And much to my chagrin, Patton, who learned the history of the WBTS on the lap of his grandfather, an ex-Confederate officer. Shame, shame, shame.
Wow, you people are really ready to fight our own sons and daughters just to get your way?
These are people giving their lives every day, and you are willing to attack them for what they do?
You have to remember, this is a constitutional republic. Obama came to power legally, as outlined in the constitution. He won by a wider margin than George w. Bush. Think about that.
Many people have voted, and they are getting what they want right now. That doesn't always mean you will get exactly what you want, this is a country of compromises.
The original post is deleted, btw.
Maybe they're harvesting HTTP headers at a more convenient location than Blogger.
You have to read and understand the Constitution before you can support and defend it. We don't intend to fight you, but we are more than capable, if you force the issue. Hell, most of us are prior service, or even retired from the various military services. Some of us are active duty.
If you do decide to attack civilians, know this- we are inside your wire. We are all across your supply lines. We cook your meals and pump your fuel. We wear your uniforms and have trained in your tactics. We are well armed and motivated to defend our homes and freedoms.
No one is going to come after you, but we are prepared to defend against you. Read the Constitution. Honor your Oath and the Corps. I hope that since you deleted your naive article, you have reconsidered your position. We are not your enemy. Let's keep it that way.
I have heard the exact same level of stupidity coming out of the mouths of active duty military people for the last two years. They can't wait to kill American citizens in our own neighborhoods.
As a former Sgt of the USMC I am personally disgusted and sickened by all of this.
Sgt C obviously never went to leadership school, as was required of all Cpls and Sgts when I was in. If he had been, he would have received the books which tell him how to question the orders given to him, especially those which are given in contradiction to the Constitution, the UCMJ and etc.
Sgt C, if we ever meet on the field and you survive, you will be branded with the word TRAITOR across your forehead. Because I guarantee you that your side will not win a war on American soil. And your kind will be marked in your own disgrace for all time.
Just a couple of thoughts to add:
1) How does this "Marine" hope to square us all away when most of our military(including reserves and NGs) are deployed overseas?
2) Has anyone done any more homework on Barry's private security force? The outhouse rumor is the funding is buried in the Health Care Bill. I hope I'm wrong on this one, but being Infantry trained during the VietNam War(I didn't go overseas), and with 30 years of police work under my belt, I would much rather go up against some of Barry's overweight Hitler Youth than a Marine who cut his combat teeth in Iraq.
Anonymous at 8:12:
We are not ready to attack them. We are ready to defend ourselves against them when attacked. Big difference.
Hitler also came into power legally, but not everything he did was moral or in the best interest of the people.
The majority voted for Obama, but the majority also does not want this bill.
And, yes, we really are that ready, but it is not to get OUR way. It is to defend THE way our nation was set up, with the Constitution as the foundation upon which all else must be built upon. You lose that foundation and we may as well change the name of our country. How about USSA for "United Socialist States of America"? Not under my watch.
I couldn't FORCE myself to read this turd's entire diatribe, nor all the comments here, because it all boils down to one simple fact:
*THIS* person (note: Not "MAN") - no matter what uniform he may wear, or what address he may occupy,
Here's the cached version of what he deleted.
This monster is calling for total war against American neighborhoods. Somehow that escapes the suckups telling him what a great American he is. I guess they don't think their neighborhood will be part of his obscene collateral damage scenario.
Look around your neighborhood and your city. Now imagine using that terrain to survive. Imagine dodging semi-automatic rifle fire as you scramble from cover to cover, dragging your wounded child behind you. Imagine the deafening report of a mortar as it strikes the ground a 150 feet in front of you, the overpressure enough to shatter your teeth and perforate an ear drum. Try and envision a Stryker rolling through neighbor's front lawn or a F/A-18 making lazy loops over your head in Close Air Support for the troops in the distance.
Wow. With all the outrage over some broken windows, not even one mention anywhere but here on SSI to repudiate this?
"Sgt. C"--y'know, one of our greatest "war heroes" at one time was Benedict Arnold. He couldn't hold a candle to you in terms of being a true domestic enemy.
I'd love to figure out who this POS is and see if he really has the courage of his convictions. That and what his superiors have to say about it--after all, he's ostensibly on the public dime, making him, in essence, a "servant". Don't we have a compelling interest to know which one of "the help" is A-OK with visiting Fallujah hell on Main St. USA?
To Anonymous @ March 27, 2010 8:12 PM:
While you are correct that we are a (suppose to be) constitutional republic...
You are wrong in thinking that the majority gets to make the rules ... hence, you are describing a democracy.
Whether Bush won a third term, the Clintons won another ... or, as we have it ... Obama won ... they ARE BOUND BY THE CONSTITUTION.
Please show us where in the constitution that the majority gets to do as they please and legislate anything not delegated to them by the constitution.
I'll be waiting ... yawn.
Click on the link and you get; This article was deleted by the author. Maybe he wised up?
I have a friend that survived on the border of South Africa and Mozambique when the civil war started. With a FAL rifle a t shirt and rugby shorts he lived through it.
Other friends I have lived though and served in just about every major war since the Korean war. I have many friends in law enforcement fed and Local.
Sergeant Cs of the world you would be facing them as well.
But I think author Terry Reibling put it best here.
I quote the most important part.
" Americans have 50 million people who are hunters – these people are armed, ready to use their weapons at a moments notice because their weapons are all in their homes. They EACH have all of the gear that allows them to spend days in cold or heat, in difficult terrain, and they have all learned or taught themselves to be able to hit a five by five inch – or much smaller - target at 100 meters repeatedly.
There is also a group of these people who spend their own money and time to drive to some place called Williamsport , Pennsylvania and shoot at 1,000 meters. To these people this is fun – and there are many of these people in America .
In addition there are another many millions who have fired rifles, pistols, revolvers, shotguns, and even bows and arrows. They may not be experts but they have access to firearms and will defend themselves with lethal force against us.
Mr. President, even if we annihilate the entire US armed forces we’re going to get our ass kicked."
A relative that was involved in the training scenario that was used as the basis for the movie Red Dawn put it this way.
"You would be up against every kind of opponent that you or your predecessors have ever faced."
For starters, Sgt. C, you ignorant ass, we are NOT A F-ING DEMOCRACY!!!!
We are a Constitutional Republic and you really should read that document you swore to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
You, Sir, are not fit to call yourself a united States Marine. You promise to kill your own citizens in defense of the tyrants who have already overthrown the republic?
How about reading the latest European Union Times article entitled: "World Mourns as Communist Darkness Falls Upon America". http://www.eutimes.net/2010/03/world-mourns-as-communist-darkness-falls-upon-america/
Plenty more like it, just not in our media. Cruel twist on the days when our media reported the atrocities of the USSR as Pravda reported sunshine and roses for the Motherland. Who's Pravda now?
I think this guy is forgetting something important besides what has already been stated. Hunters make great guerrilla fighters. Hiding your presence from animals is much harder than hiding from people. Also deer rifle=sniper rifle. The main concern in Afghanistan is bombs and booby traps, here it would be having single bullet come out of nowhere and being unable to locate the sniper because he fires a shot and moves on to prevent being located by sound. Talk about your short life expectancy. No matter how much a military guy trains, a head-shot will still kill them. And THEY CAN'T BE GREY MEN.
How can this Marine sit here and threaten those he swore an oath to protect? Is he so brainwashed that he believes he took an oath to the tyrannical government? Is he so delusional that he thinks he would have have a military "duty" or "moral" obligation to fire on his own countrymen? Mr. Marine, I would educate you Sir! YOU took an Oath to defend the Constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic! We have a government that publicly states they need to destroy America and rather than you do your duty to your country, you spend time writing Citizens with threats to turn on us? Your oath Sir, is to the Constitution, not the President. I seriously urge you to go back, read that oath again, educate yourself on what is going on and come back with a true Patriots heart. By the way, if you think the majority of the military will obey orders to fire on the people, YOU ARE OUT OF YOUR MIND! They have vowed to protect us and unlike you, they meant those words when they spoke them! Unlike you Sir, they also understood that oath they took! You would pledge your allegiance to a government that calls you a "homeland threat" rather than to the citizens who have stood up to them FOR YOU? You would pledge your allegiance to a government that is defunding our military and denying our brave troops top medical care and the best America can offer rather than to all those Patriots that support you? What a disgrace Sir! Shame on You!
"The reality of civil war is that everyone loses. It does not matter who eventually claims the military victory, the damage will already be done. Tens of millions will die. People you know and love will die. The survivors will find themselves living in a ruined nation with most of the infrastructure we depend upon totally destroyed and no money left to rebuild it."
Greyhawk, thanks for the consideration. Minus the loss of life and the destruction of property, most of your paragraph quoted here is already true.
#1. This IS a ruined nation. Our agricultural base is gone. Don't mind all that number two field corn that our government is subsidizing- it isn't actually an agricultural base.
An agricultural base is when you actually have agricultural production that is MAKING money. No agriculture? It doesn't matter if you have manufacturing or not, you are done.
No agriculture, very little real manufacturing, massive government employment, lower standards of living for everyone except people in a dozen US counties? That is a ruined nation.
#2. No money left to rebuild it.
If you understand our monetary system, since 1913, it is a system of paper hanging (fraud) unlike anything in history previous to it. The paper in your hand is a "debt instrument", in other words, if the American citizen was not in debt, that piece of paper would not exist. It is the bankers' Title to everything that changes hands in this country.
The TARP bailouts and the S&L fiasco under Clinton's watch, the Enron scam and every other "newsworthy" event since 1913 have been the government and their criminal bankers looting the USA.
Now, we have dumbed down children like Sgt. C. who want to murder American children and drop bombs on our lawns. Maybe that's why the US census people GPS'd every front door in the USA??? Hmmm, there's an idea. Just fly that smart bomb into your living room from a table full of American kids with remote controllers in their hands thinking they are playing a game.
Nope. America is already ruined, America as we thought of her is completely gone, and we will NOT see her again. All we can hope to do is clean house of all the criminals and traitors, reposition our Constitutional values with new strictures tying the hands of the Supreme Court as to future interpretation and start from scratch, in every community left standing after these murderers come for us and get handed their collective asses.
Sgt C isn't the real problem, he is a symptom of the real problem, and that is too many Americans are STUPID, LAZY and WILLFULLY IGNORANT SOB's.
G in Ohio
I'd like to see you follow your "FRAG" order up here to Alaska. When I was in the Army, we brought a company of marines here at 55 degrees below zero... Talk about worthless. We pulled their security while they sat in their LAVs and cried like little girls.
Bring your fellow oath breakers up here, SGT "C". I guarantee it will, as you say, "pain" you to do so. One road in, one road out. 3 highways in the state, all through our mountains. Crazy, armed, Alaskan hicks shooting you all the while.
Don't you DARE threaten your citizens. Don't you dare.
Tory. Jackass. Redcoat.
I have an acquaintence that is retired SF, Dessert Storm, Mogadishu, covert in Central & South America. He indicated about 20% will fire on American civilians when ordered to do so. He said that immediately the remaining 80% would turn and cut the 20% down. SGT C needs to be concerned with a 556 or a 762 coming at his back a lot more than he does firing on civilians that aren't shooting at him. SF friend also indicated that in his era they all received many hours of having pounded into them about not abusing civilians. SGT C, if you don't want to be concerned about getting shot from the front or back, don't obey unconstitutional orders. I kind of suspect this isn't a Marine at all, but leftist loon.
Sometimes I truly believe there must be large fields where STUPID people are GROWN. I'm serious the Ignorance as well as Stupidity is appalling. No wonder Governments are able to kill MILLIONS of their own countrymen. Plan for the worst and hope for the best.
Private Military Group now using a former NATO base in Iceland. This outfit claims to have the latest in equipment.....will they used here?
Article says this group is funded by Governments and private enterprise.
Make up your own mind !
It's certainly all been said here by plenty of irregulars who understand our founding and governing documents far better than the sergeant. Unfortunately, there are servicemembers who do think like this guy. I just wanted him and all the irregulars to know that Marines seem to be waking up to what is happening to our country. Our decline did not start with Barack Obama, but it seems that his election and administration are causing Marines to either wake up or become more vocal in their dissent.
From what I have heard in discussions with fellow Marines and (especially) company grade officers, if the SHTF, they will be nowhere near base and certainly will not fire on anyone residing in what is now one of the States in the union.
I won't either.
When you follow the link, the articlew was removed by the author.
Of course it was.
How do we know that Sgt C is not a gov't psyop activity to cool things down?
Regardless, I agree that we need to avoid tanks in the street and we need to let the political process work to the extent that it will work.
Should it come to it though, Sgt C has obviously learned nothing from the countless years we've been fighting insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan. American civilians and retired military would make Fallujah look like a walk in the park.
Does this mean that Obama and his friends are enemies of the Constitution, no longer American citizens?
Anonymous Anonymous said...
"These are people giving their lives every day, and you are willing to attack them for what they do?"
Negative, I shall use the Second Amendment for the purpose it was intended, and protect my family, and others from assault, whether it be from an individual or a government.
"Many people have voted, and they are getting what they want right now. That doesn't always mean you will get exactly what you want, this is a country of compromises."
They don't get what they want if it is unconstitutional. The Constitution is not subject to compromise.
As a former combat veteran Marine, I don't think this is a real Jarhead. The wording and other things don't fit. I believe this is some left wing nut job, trying to get something started. A World Wide Web Comando, and nothing else.
If you were one of my Marines and had said anything like this, I would have taken you behind the nearest berm, building, hooche, or whatever was the nearest cover. Then beat the living snot out of you.
Sgt. C., if you are for real, you are not worthy to kiss the ass of the real Marines I served with.
First off, this is NOT a democracy, never was, never intended to be, and (Pray God) never will be. This is a Constitutional Republic.
Yes, some of are old, fat, busted, or as one put it 'fat wheezing toads'. Maybe so! But many of us took an Oath and stand by that Oath even today. Yes, we realize that we can't run up hills carrying 50 or 60 pounds of equipment .... but, ya know what? We can be rearguard. Many of us have no families, or love our families enough to stand to. Many of us have already made that commitment in our hearts and minds to do what we can do. Many of us are old and sick. Many us us have nothing left to loose but our lives. No one gets out of this game alive anyway.
Do you know and understand what is happening while we hold you by our rearguard action? Our younger, stronger, more able compatriots are closing on your rear ... hear that? We will take many of you with us when we go and our friends will take many more.
Yes, you may beat us if it comes to armed conflict ... but, ya know what? How will you go home? We live all around you. Do you think that you will survive even if you beat us? How will your families fare? Think twice before you 'just follow orders'.
There were three 'hits' .... sorry, raids this past weekend. Is this the first shot? Sealed Federal Warrants? BullShit!
In closing .....
I pray that I am wrong. I pray that there is some way around it. I pray that somehow our Republic will be restored. But I doubt it. There were congressional hearings concerning McCain's citizenship. Racist, were the cries when Obama's citizenship was questioned. Franky, it is RACIST not to investigate. I don't care where he was born, he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, making him an Indonesian citizen - thus not eligible for the office. He can't be impeached, he can't be tried for treason if he is not a citizen and not the president.
Will the military fight civilians - some will. Who will win - no one.
Do I want to find some way around this - yes. Will I fight if it comes to it - I took an Oath and will stand to.
May God have mercy on us all.
i will enjoy the day we get to rid this world of idiots like you. WE ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY YOU MORON.
This is the sad result of men who believe that they swore an oath to a government, not the Founding Principles and if the government now rejects those principles, they still must go forward defending that government. This happened in Germany where the military became confused between the nation and the government. The government is NOT the nation when the government abandons the principles on which the nation was founded.
Now most people who abjure the present government aren't talking about civil war. It is interesting however, that this soldier sees it in that light - and if he does, WHY he does. Are his superiors telling him (and others) that those who are opposing Washington are "in rebellion" when it is Washington itself that is "in rebellion" against the Constitution (sound familiar)? Remember the federal army waging war against the South? Those men took oaths, but they followed the orders of their superiors who told them that the Southern states "were in rebellion against the LAWFUL government". The same thing is going to happen here.
Not every soldier is intellectually capable of distinguishing between the concept of constitutional government and a government that SAYS it is constitutional. Furthermore, they are trained first to be obedient. So when it goes down, as they say, they are not going to be capable of deep intellectual concepts or of wrestling with the philosophy of whether the commanding officer or the civilian with the gun is right. They will simply follow orders in the blind belief that they are fulfilling their oath because otherwise they would not have been ordered to shoot. By their very nature, soldiers abdicate personal viewpoint in favor of obedience. The front line is no place for intellectual debate; it is a place for action.
Those who are putting their hope on a military that will be able to determine at the time which side represents the Constitution are hoping in vain. Once an army is in the field, unless something unique happens (such as being ordered to lock a lot of helpless men, women and children in a church and setting fire to it), they are going to fight for the government, period. Anyone who believes otherwise is deluding himself.
Parenthetically, I would like to know more about this soldier. Is he white or black? What is his level of education? Where does he come from? Is he more liberal or more conservative in his personal ideology? Words from an unknown quantity can signify a great deal that would be better understood if we knew more about the man stating them.
Funny, I was in the Marines, and it wasn't like he said it was.
Either this is a good SS trooper ready to serve the Reich no matter what that entails, or a nice piece of work out of the Ministry of Propaganda. Whatever...
Oh, by the way, gang, this is not a republic or a democracy. It is an oligarchy. Doesn't matter what your wishes are, doesn't matter what it's (allegedly) s'posed to be. All that matters is what is.
Sgt. C needs to open his eyes, to a good look, and figure out just who is attacking the Constitution. He may be surprised.
1) This guy is most likely psyops, a troll at most. And obviously, an ignorant one at that.
2) As stated elsewhere, there are a shitload of ex-military out there with some very nasty experience.
3) As also stated elsewhere, this ain't gonna be Fallujah, it's gonna be Mainstreet U.S.A., and your neighborhood is gonna be a target as well - that is, unless you'll be moving the wife and kids out of the country.
4) And most of all, a lot of us are older folk with nothing to lose by dying for our country. We ain't afraid of Marines, especially traitor Marines. There's ex-GI's, hunters, and just plain crazy people out there who would rather go out in a blaze of glory than hide under the bed and piss their pants.
So bring it on, Sgt. We won't start it, but as I used to tell the 6'6" guy who was threatening to beat the shit out of this 5'6" runt, you may kick my ass, but you won't walk away untouched. I'll lay some whoop-ass on you like you'll never forget.
Never have I been prouder, or felt more safe to be an American than right now, after reading all of these spot on, courageous comments. I am truly honored to be able to count some of you as friends [you know who you are!], and I am comforted by the comments of those whom I have not yet met.
Americans have been through a lot in our 238 years, but the current state of affairs is, IMHO, truly the greatest test to our Nation, our Repaublic and its people we have ever faced. God willing, and thanks to folks like yourselves, I believe we will redeem and restore our Republic to its former glory, and protect our Constitution from enemies both without and within.
Thank you ALL for your service, your courage and your wise words and common sense.
"The Dame Truth"
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