Monday, March 29, 2010

Standoff near North Adams MI with Hutaree holdouts.

MI Confirmed. LA raid report awaiting positive confirmation.

My recommendation: Stand fast. Await word. But be ready if this turns into another Waco.


ADRIAN, Mich. (WXYZ) - Law enforcement officials may have found the last suspect in the "Hutaree" case.

Sources tell Action News that the FBI is involved in a standoff in North Adams Village, about 30 miles from the site of Saturday's raid in Adrian. They are believed to be looking for Josh Stone, the son of the group leader David Stone.

The younger Stone has been on the run since the raid. So far the FBI has not commented on the standoff.

Several members of "Hutaree," a religious militia group based out of Lenawee County, are in court facing federal charges that include conspiracy and attempting to use weapons of mass destruction.

Nine people group members have been charged with a list of federal crimes. Seven of the suspects appeared in court Monday morning to be indicted.

Arrests were made over the weekend after the FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force took part in raids around Adrian that may be connected to a religious militia group known as "Hutaree."

In a federal indictment, the government says the group is an anti-government, extremist organization that planned war with the United States. It is also alleged that the group wanted to kill members of law enforcement.

Federal charges include Seditious Conspiracy, Attempt to Use Weapons of Mass Destruction, Teaching/Demonstrating Use of Explosive Materials and two counts of Carrying, Using and Posessing a Firearm During and in Relation to a Crime of Violence.

The nine people named in the indictment are as follows:
David Brian Stone, 45
Tina Stone, 44
Joshua Matthew Stone, 21
David Brian Stone, Jr., 19
Joshua Clough, 28
Michael Meeks, 40
Thomas Piatek, 46
Kristopher Sickles, 27
Jacob Ward, 33

The leader of the group is David Stone Sr., and is known by group members as "Captain Hutaree."

His ex-wife, Donna Stone, talked with Action News about Stone.

"He's got a temper. He can get radical. He wants things done his way," Donna Stone told Action News.

Investigators say group members have been meeting regularly to conduct military-style training in order to prepare for war with the government, law enforcement and federal workers.

Brittany Bryant, the woman who is engaged to David Stone Jr. - son of the group's leader, says the group isn't dangerous.

"I don't think they're dangerous. If they wanted to do something they would have already done something," says Brittany Bryant.

The FBI conducted multiple raids throughout Saturday and into Sunday, with one of them centered on a property where known members of the militia live.

Helicopters were spotted in the sky for much of the night Saturday, and agents set up checkpoints throughout the area, including in Sand Creek and Clayton in Lenawee County. Witnesses tell Action News that it was like a small army had descended on the area.

A command center, including two satellite trucks and a radio tower, had been set up at the Washtenaw County Sheriff's Department in Ann Arbor. It has since been dismantled.

Sunday, authorities also blocked off roads in Dover Township, while they gathered evidence from a home.

The group's web site shows training videos of men wearing camouflage, carrying rifles, and maneuvering through rough terrain. The site also includes information similar to a manifesto, that says members need to be ready for the Anti-Christ and that Jesus wants members to be ready to defend themselves with the sword.

Authorities are expected to release more information about the investigation early this week.

An official with FBI has also said two people were arrested Saturday in Ohio, and one person was arrested in Illinois.

Report from a commander in Michigan I respect: Looks like the Hutaree had a fed embedded with them for at least a year and a half.


Anonymous said...

Any public sources?

angry settler said...

Guy in custody.

Thanks god. No Waco...

But according to my sources, this kind of thing will increase.

Prepare for more raids on militias in the coming months.

The FBI agent provocateurs inside the militias will activate more and more.

I guess up until they do a few Wacos, then people will fight back.

So I suggest to you all that you review the people you already have in your militias, just to be sure you ain't got a traitor among you.

Peace-loving American Citizen said...

Please don't start a civil war. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


Peace-loving American citizen

Anonymous said...

"Please don't start a civil war. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE


Peace-loving American citizen"

If it gets a start, it will be initiated by the government. Keep that in mind, and go plead with THEM.

angry settler said...

The arrests have dealt "a severe blow to a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States," Attorney General Eric Holder said.


jselvy said...

Dear Peace lover,
Is peace so dear that you would live as a slave?
We wish no war. We wish no infringement upon our natural rights. We have been patient . We have done all that any Gentleman could do to avoid this.
We will not begin this war, but we will end it.

Unknown said...

I'm not sure if I understand where you're coming from. If the media reports are correct (which is a huge question) about the Hutaree planning to murder police officers in an effort to spark an uprising, then they are not patriots and are criminals. This could not be another Waco.

Anonymous said...

And so we write more on the blank page of history...

Geeze, this is scary to watch.

Anonymous said...

I found this on the back of a booklet some of you may have been issued once long ago. It serves as a timely reminder of the reason for using deadly force. I shudder to think that the below text may be so foreign to the federal agents who work out the will of their leaders.

Almighty GOD, who art the Author of liberty and Champion of the oppressed, hear our prayer.

We, the men of Special Forces, acknowledge our dependence upon Thee in the preservation of human freedom.

Go with us as we seek to defend the defenseless and to free the enslaved.

May we ever remember that our nation, whose motto is "In God We Trust," expects that we shall acquit ourselves with honor, that we may never bring shame upon our faith, our families, or our fellow men.

Grant us wisdom from Thy mind, courage from Thine heart, strength from Thine arm, and protection from Thine hand. It is for Thee that we do battle, and to Thee belongs the victor's crown.

For Thine is the kingdom, and the power and glory, forever, AMEN.

Brock Townsend said...

Guy in custody.

Nothing on Militia Radio or anywhere else that I can find, though about two hours ago someone called me to state that it was a standoff. He said just with the 21 year old son, so we shall see.

Oldfart said...

Steve @ 5:16. Never, never ever believe the MSM. Their story comes to them as a press-release and gives only the information the government wants released.

I have no idea what the truth is in this case but I remember that Randy Weaver was lumped in with the Nazi Party by the government and David Koresh was called a child molester. Neither lable was correct but too many people still believe both of those lies.

Anonymous said...

Far as I can tell they are obviously using this group of nutters to tar and feather any conservative, let alone those of us who disagree with them and their socialist agenda.

The arrests have dealt "a severe blow to a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States," Attorney General Eric Holder said.

Authorities said the arrests underscored the dangers of homegrown right-wing extremism of the sort seen in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing that killed 168 people.

OK so we have to bring up OKC with this to remind the dumb sheep out in front of their TV's that all of us right wing extremists are violent as well as wrong.

shiloh1862 said...

These will increase in number as they ratchet up the hyperbole.

They can whack a mole but I do not see asymmetric working out so well for them.


Anonymous said...

So what exactly are these folks guilty of? Congregating with rifles, blowing off some steam, doing a little shooting and nav work? All legal in MI, OH, IN last I checked.

It's going to be interesting to see exactly what evidence against these folks is presented.

I'm not defending them (don't know them from Adam), I just don't trust the gubmint. I suspect MBV is right, this is a heavy hand response to people that are absolutely pissed off about the direction the country is going and a strong suggestion to find a hole. The timing is just to coincidental.

Well, folks are not likely to back down this time. Be careful feds as to who and how you come after folks. Many of us DO NOT want a conflict and are doing our darndest to get things changed peaceably and lawfully, but if you all start shooting innocent folks, all bets are probably off. Not a threat, not a warning, just sayin' and suggesting you treat folks with CONSTITUTIONAL RESPECT.

Feds/Sheriffs: Who will you side with, constitutional citizens or a constitution breaking, rule of law ignoring gubmint? Take a hard look at your loyalties. They could be costly for ALL of us.

Just a concerned American who is watching the country going to hell...

Cybrludite said...

Looks like the Hutaree were trying to provoke what we're trying to avoid. I see no reason to give them the Ragnarok they were pushing for. If it were some group wishing to be left alone, no matter how creepy, that'd be one thing. Unless you're going to claim their founder was a Fed instigator, I say the Hutaree are on their own.

Jay said...

I wonder if Sergeant C has ever read the back of the booklet. Probably not.

Anonymous said...

Conspiracy are vague charges that honestly is the governments way of saying (you are going to be an example!)
As for weapons of mass destruction, unfortunately for these gentleman the new protocols list large amounts of ANY potentially destructive material as a possible "Weapon of Mass Destruction..."
I honestly do not agree with these gentleman's approach however, it has never been MY place as an American (Constitution embracing) to tell them what they can and cannot believe individual rights are the First through Tenth Amendments...

I am at a loss, and I am seriously upset that more people are not getting off their butts and at least getting out there and protesting!

Peace-loving American Citizen said...

If I was a slave, I certainly would consider some type of rebellion, but I do not feel like a slave now. I do cherish my freedoms of speech, expression, and assemblage, and certainly there have been incalcuable infractions of these rights in our nation for many, many people over the years. And hey, yeah, most of our politicians are dishonest crooks basically motivated by bribery, who essentially manipulate the American people through spin, graft, and outright lying. I really don't think this can change, even if all of today's politicians are replaced immediately. Its the cold, hard reality. Life is not a Utopia, and no matter how one tries, Utopia cannot be created.

That said, I will take today's reality anyday over one that includes endemic violence against innocent people perpetrated by those who wish to use violence to force their own political agenda upon others. Now, what these Hutaree guys are accused of is completely unacceptable and evil (I term I usually do not like to use). Now, They're only yet just accused, so, we'll have to wait and see on them.

So, I get your point, but I simply don't feel slavish enough to justify violence, and actually wouldn't know whom I would focus the violence towards that would usher in any positive or realistic
political change.


Kevin Patrick said...

Can we really trust what the mainstream media is saying? I'll reserve judgement until I see more evidence that satisfies my questions.

Anonymous said...

Looking for a reality check here. I am NOT trying to be a smart-ass!

In the "window war", how many participated? Half a dozen, maybe 10 windows broken? Being generous with unreported incidents, maybe 20?

If so few participated in this low-risk activity after "the call", how would you expect tens of thousands or more to immediately pick up arms and march off if you issue a call to arms for civil war?

Is there something obvious I'm missing? On the other hand, are your expectations of people actually heeding your call perhaps exaggerated? Chew me a new one of you will, but I'd honestly like to have a better grasp of this apparent disparity.

triptyx said...

Steve, if I understand correctly, the statement of "No More Wacos" is that whether or not you stand accused of a crime, you do not deserve to be burned to death inside your home along with your family, or otherwise killed in a "botched" raid.

Being accused of a crime is not supposed to be a death sentence in this country, and whether or not you like the people the Feds are going after, they still don't deserve another Waco. They deserve to be tried in Court and, hopefully, adjudicated correctly of the crimes they actually have committed or are provably about to commit.

No one here likes the Hutaree or what they stand for, however, no one here likes the idea of the Feds wantonly destroying and murdering everything they touch in the name of making a statement either.

dennis308 said...

Now I guess we have to wait and see who they go after next and under what pretext. We need to keep our eyes and ears open, and our minds sharpe and alert. Watch your 6 Mike.

Brock Townsend said...

FBI: Last of 9 suspects in plot caught in Mich.

Brock Townsend said...

Gee, wonder what they'll charge him with......
"Also taken into custody was a baby that appeared to be between one to years old."

Anonymous said...

toes first heels last.........2 steps only and listen...wait and listen

Anonymous said...

I think people are getting a little wound up because we'd all like to see some real "change" in our government. At least with regards to our elected officials respecting the Constitution. That may happen peacefully, it may not. If what is "alleged" about these hutarees is true, then let's not be in any rush to get in their corner.

Ambushing cops to bring about a response that will allow the rest of America's patriots to act is downright wrong. It's just plain murder and everyone needs to condemn that. If that happens, what makes us any better than the government leaders we have so much contempt for?

I'm willing to go to the mat for the Constitution, but not by ginning-up some "reason". My conscience and my God will not allow that. Hope yours won't either.

Anonymous said...

Matthew 5:3-10.

Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.

Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.

Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven

bullbythehorns said...

If the main problem is the "system" and its god "fiat money" , then wouldnt it be more prudent to chuck a brick through the windows of banks and Tax accountants as they are the conduit for the system ?

Anonymous said...

The arrests have dealt "a severe blow to a dangerous organization that today stands accused of conspiring to levy war against the United States," Attorney General Eric Holder said.

Yet, dozens of Islamic military style training centers continue to operate within our borders with impunity.

Ya, that makes sense.....

rexxhead said...

"Seditious conspiracy"?

I thought the Alien and Sedition Acts had been repealed.

206 years ago.

Shy Wolf said...

Peace-Loving... "we" ain't the ones starting it.
Steve- I don't think you understand what "not another Waco" means...
Wally- good idea. Why don'tcha gofer it? LOL.
Scanner's too damn quiet up here- something's not kosher, for sure. If I go by the "norm" for the last two months, there should be books of chatter going on yesterday and today. But no, just a few driver ID checks...

Erkle Holder said...

As you said, the media can hardly be trusted, being the Pravda of the Obamanation. The similarity to Waco is simple. They selected a small group of people, out of the mainstream, people with no support base among the populace, and accuse them of planning to do something. No one believes anything the cops / feds / "Only Ones" say. We all know that many of the proposed acts of violence are initiated by agents provocateur and moles. And we DO know how much they all enjoy being the Avenging Ninja SpecOps Macho Warrior types, like the ones who took down that notorious 4 year old terrorist, Elian Gonzales, on Easter Sunday under the Clintonista regime. Bravely facing down feisty anti-Castro grandmothers, unarmed women and an unarmed man, they boldly went in, and armed ONLY with their body armor, MP5s, ninja outfits, grenades, bolt cutters and jackboots, brought that fugitive child to justice, by God, sending him back to Castro and the communist tyranny of Cuba.
So now - now the Hutaree. Next time - who?
Are YOU a suspicious character?
Are you a person whom Janet Incompetano believes to be a danger, id est, do you read a Bible or support home schoolers, or the Second Amendment? Do you have or display a copy of the verboten text of subversive elements, called "The Constitution"? If so - stay on your toes.

Joe said...

And just how much of this did the undercover fed instigate???

Anonymous said...

March 29, 2010 5:15 PM
Blogger Steve said...

I'm not sure if I understand where you're coming from. If the media reports are correct (which is a huge question) about the Hutaree planning to murder police officers in an effort to spark an uprising, then they are not patriots and are criminals. This could not be another Waco.

March 29, 2010 5:16 PM

Steve, the Operative word Sir is "IF".

Other than that I agree but IF is the question to be answered.


Anonymous said...

Whether or not anyone wants to admit it, even though these raids were conducted against Hutaree who "if" there is any truth to this indictment were acting against the best interests of the collective Constitutional Militias in America, and, not to mention the tactical ignorance of such a plan, "the FEDS have just attacked all Militias and other organizations of resistance" in this country. This is a fact! This attack is already effective and could be devastating if not properly handled by the resistance. Are we all talk? Happy passover.

III more than them said...

"Report from a commander in Michigan I respect: Looks like the Hutaree had a fed embedded with them for at least a year and a half."

Well, geeee, isn't that just peachy. Sounds like they had some serious housekeeping issues.

On another note: If they WERE planning to strike at law enforcement first, their sorry butts need to go away. LEOs tend to be the center of a lot of controversy, but they're not entitled to run out there and molest the law. Things are not at that point, and some of those they are reported to want to kill (mourners, attending the funeral of the first LEO they were planning to kill - allegedly) would be absolutely innocent.

I can't stand for that. Some cop's kid gets diced by a pipe bomb meant to do wide area damage.... that's just plain wrong on SOOOooo many levels.

Toastrider said...

I would be extremely ill-disposed towards anyone who thought that indiscriminate slaughter was the way to go.

It's one thing to abide by Clinton's 'Waco Rules', but if you decide you want to use 'Bin Laden's Rules', then you will have a problem.

Anonymous said...

what if KGB wants the Civil War to start here again and takes you out Mike or some other cell/leader/commander?

Have you at least considered such a possibility?

Anonymous said...

The feds didn't seem to have any problem with collateral damage at Waco or Ruby Ridge. They use violence without conscience or remorse to enforce whatever edicts they desire.

They can pin a "crime" on any citizen at any time, because the "laws" are so numerous and vague.

They have a willing media who will parrot anything they manage to put in an indictment or press release as if they are words handed down from God himself.

The penalties are so severe, the costs so great, and the chances of a positive outcome in federal kangaroo court are so slim, that most plead guilty and the feds' lies never see the light of day. Just another bullet on some AUSA's resume.

It's like dealing with terrorists who intend to blow themselves up when attacking you. When you're dealing with a criminal enterprise that has absolutely no hesitation to use violence, a pacifist ROE will only get you killed.

Justin said...

Yeah. Ask the guy's ex wife. That's real unbiased.


Anonymous said...

So we've seen raids in MI, IN, and OH with one arrest in IL (according to one report). These are related despite being in several states. Ok, but if the raid in LA on the opposite side of the country is confirmed then we can honestly say they have targeted militia in 10% of the states, all in a matter of a couple of days. That gives one cause of extreme concern, as if we're not already on edge.

If another beyond LA is in the works we'll soon know, but at that point I'd be willing to say the Feds have made war against the militias. Logic would tell us they are starting with the most extreme of the bunch first and working their way to calmer waters. If, and only if my suspicions prove true, how soon until they arrive at Mike's door, your neighbors, or even yours?
We don't know what they are thinking, doing, or going so be prepared, ready to go within 60 seconds.

Dedicated_Dad said...

Dear "Peace-loving American Citizen":

First, if you believe we aren't also "Peace-loving American Citizens" then you've bought the propaganda spread by the Government Owned Media (all of 'em). Here's a hint for you: You know they're lying whenever they claim to be delivering non-fiction "news." It really is that bad.

Second, if you'd read *ANYTHING* on this site - any of the side-bar info on the main page, for example - you'd know that we (by which I mean this leaderless gathering - not "group" - of rugged individuals) will **NEVER** start it.

We DO however - most of us anyway - agree that the question is WHEN (not "if") and HOW TPTB will start it.

Further, when TPTB finally DO start it, we plan to FINISH it - to WIN it - to RESTORE our Republic to its former glory. WHEN it comes, it will NOT be a "revolution" - it will be a fight for RESTORATION of our Republic as defined in our Constitution.

Turn off the TV - it's full of nothing but propaganda. Some is subtle (like how all Fathers on every show are morons, and the only one with ANY real sense is the homosexual) and some is absolutely overt (see any "news" program).

Ignore the radio and newspapers as well - get your news online from the "independent" and foreign media, so you'll at least be within spitting-distance of truth.

READ the Declaration of Independence, the Articles of Confederation, the Federalist papers/debates of the Constitutional Convention and the Constitution.

Be sure to have a GOOD dictionary on hand - one that will help you understand what some of those words (such as "regulate") meant to those who wrote them - as the most important definitions have changed considerably in ~234 years.

This may sound like a tall order, but could easily be accomplished by limiting yourself to one hour of the one-eyed beast (AKA "TV") per day and investing the balance of your time in said study.

Here's an important quote from the Declaration of Independence - that sacred document whose anniversary we celebrate with government-controlled fireworks, BBQ and drunkenness every summer:

"...We hold these truths to be self-evident:
- that all men are created equal, - that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights,
- that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
- That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.
- That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government
, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security..."

Dedicated_Dad said...


Now, let's think...

Violent thugs who enforce the diktats of the tyrants with zero penalties for their crimes? Check!

I could go on for days - taxation without representation, edicts and laws made and enforced against the plainly evidenced will of the people? CHECK!

Weapons made for foreign battlefields (microwave weapons, "sound cannons" that literally make people's ears bleed and can even cause DEATH - being used to deny peaceful citizens their right to assemble and petition for redress of grievances? CHECK!

Think you're safe in your home? WRONG!

Think you can move about freely without harassment, without uniformed thugs stealing your property without charge or trial? WRONG!

Think you can speak your mind, or even just go about your business, without being tortured - even potentially tortured to death - for nothing more than causing offense to some uniformed thug? Think there will at least be some meaningful penalty to said thug? WRONG! ...and... WRONG!

If you think you've seen it all, and don't want to sit through the first vid I linked, just PLEASE watch this one short segment... It's split at the end of one and the beginning of another - and href="">part 2 is here. PLEASE watch this, and bear in mind that neither of these guys was disciplined in *ANY* way - they were found to have violated no law or policy, and to have acted in accordance with training.

Don't even get me started about the excessive and onerous taxation = the propaganda bureaus lie (go figure) about "making the rich pay their fair share" or "tax cuts for the rich" - the truth is truly sickening...

If you knew the truth about who caused the current economic collapse (hint: The VERY SAME FOLK who now pontificate about greedy wall-street bankers") you'd be as angry as everyone ELSE who does!

Any idea who tried to STOP the coming collapse - and were shouted down by the very same people? The answer is here. The Retardlicans - AKA "The STUPID branch of The Government Party" - are bad enough, but the EVIL branch is INFINITELY worse. While they stand and scream about "greedy bankers" they're literally selling them total control of our Government.

Then there's the "Federal Reserve" - which is no more Federal than Federal Express. The Fed - a private, FOR-PROFIT entity exempt from ALL .gov control, issues all our money. In the GB vid just linked he references "the discount window" - G-S and others borrow *OUR* $ at 0% then loan it to the .gov at 10%, again paid with *OUR* $, straight into the pockets of G-S and other "banksters."

See also "fall of the republic (though some disinfo is included)" and "America: Freedom to Fascism"

If you're not simply SEETHING with anger, you're not paying attention!!

Anonymous said...

Personally, assuming this is all true about this supposedly fruit cake "militia" and the feds do it by the "book" ... I don't have a problem with it.

Unfortunately though, this is a great propaganda coup for the feds and the media...

Which means ... we are all a bunch of religious end of the world militia whack jobs.

This is no Waco. Not even Koresh was as far out as these people.

But it certainly will be capitalized on.

Which means ... we need to keep our hearts ... pure.

348 said...

I mean this in the most sincere way, just a simple question I think needs some sort of answer.

Suppose they do another Waco or start rounding up people more mentally stable than Hutaree, you said no more free Wacos, so what price, exactly, will be charged? What I mean is, what's the next move?

I don't mean this in any insulting way, it's an honest question. Mike, if you have time I'd like to see a post answering this very important question.

Anonymous said...

Per DDad's links:

# Taxpayers who rank in the top 50 percent of taxpayers by income pay virtually all individual income taxes. In all years since 1990, taxpayers in this group have paid over 94 percent of all individual income taxes. In 2000, 2001, and 2002, this group paid over 96 percent of the total.

Treasury Department analysts credit President Bush's tax cuts with shifting a larger share of the individual income taxes paid to higher income taxpayers. In 2005, says the Treasury, when most of the tax cut provisions are fully in effect (e.g., lower tax rates, the $1,000 child credit, marriage penalty relief), the projected tax share for lower-income taxpayers will fall, while the tax share for higher-income taxpayers will rise.

# The share of taxes paid by the bottom 50 percent of taxpayers will fall from 4.1 percent to 3.6 percent.

There are a lot of Obummer voters in those numbers, and socio-economic ruination is minting more every day.

The recipe seems almost foolproof: kill the economy, pass amnesty, have 70-80% lining up for govt cheese and voting for handouts, have FDA assault teams destroy "unauthorized" crops and animals, institute a bread-for-guns program, wrap the whole enchilada in razor wire and call it a day.


straightarrow said...

Oh Hell yes, it could be another Waco, Steve.

Either you know little of what happened at Waco or you are on the immoral side of the issue. Waco happened because the Feds lied, a lot. About everything.

Waco and Ruby Ridge killed any faith I may have had in them. My default position is the Feds lied.

Happy D said...

"Report from a commander in Michigan I respect: Looks like the Hutaree had a fed embedded with them for at least a year and a half."

That right there is why you play by the rules when playing with others.

Let them do something stupid first. It's only polite.

Is it Aikido that teaches that it is the attacker that is out of balance with nature?

Witchwood said...

This is all anyone's talking about in my neck of the woods, internet and radio. The media doesn't know whether to condemn the Hutaree as primarily Christian or primarily militia, so it's trying to do both at once. The fact it's lumping us all together is no accident.

I'm no expert, but from what I've read it seems the Hutaree are an apocalyptic religious cult that happens to be armed rather than a proper militia. Do they self-identify as militia?

BattleBull said...

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

and by that time no one was left to speak up."

Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

Dedicated_Dad said...

Sorry I botched the one link - still, not bad considering there's no "preview" window, right? ;o )

As to the botched link, it takes you directly to the beginning of the segment I was talking about, which is in part 2 of the longer vid. All you need to do is follow the "related" link to part 3 to see the rest of the segment.


For What It's Worth... said...

WSJ is now carrying the story of the 'undercover FBI' agent...

Dedicated_Dad said...

One more thing:

I spent several hours today VERY slightly expanding my post here, fleshing it out witha BUNCH more documentary links, and posting it to my blog.

Input - as always - earnestly sought!!