Sunday, July 17, 2011

Tell me again why you think ATF should be abolished and the gun laws enforced by the FBI? LA Times: At least 6 FBI paid informants involved in F&F!

"About this much." Robert Mueller, Director of the FBI, demonstrating how much we the public actually know about the FBI's culpability in the Gunwalker Scandal and the cover-up of the circumstances of the murder of Brian Terry.

Richard Serrano of the LA Times Washington Bureau reports: "Gun-smuggling cartel figures possibly were paid FBI informants."

Congressional investigators probing the controversial "Fast and Furious" anti-gun-trafficking operation on the border with Mexico believe at least six Mexican drug cartel figures involved in gun smuggling also were paid FBI informants, officials said Saturday.

The investigators have asked the FBI and the Drug Enforcement Administration for details about the alleged informants, as well as why agents at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which ran the Fast and Furious operation, were not told about them. . .

In a letter to FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III, the investigators asked why U.S. taxpayers' money apparently was paid to Mexican cartel members who have terrorized the border region for years in their efforts to smuggle drugs into this country, and to ship U.S. firearms into Mexico.

"We have learned of the possible involvement of paid FBI informants in Operation Fast and Furious," wrote Rep. Darrel Issa (R-Vista), chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, and Sen. Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the top Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee. The two have been the leading congressional critics of the program.

"At least one individual who is allegedly an FBI informant might have been in communication with, and was perhaps even conspiring with, at least one suspect whom ATF was monitoring," they wrote.

The FBI and DEA did not tell the ATF about the alleged informants. The ATF and congressional investigators learned later that those agencies apparently were paying cartel members whom the ATF wanted to arrest.

"Operation Fast and Furious was conceived to get some of the bigger fish down there," said one official close to the congressional investigation, who asked not to be identified because the probe is ongoing. "Then it turned out that some of the ones they were zeroing in on actually, mostly likely were paid informants."

The official said at least half a dozen cartel figures were being paid by one U.S. law enforcement agency while they were being targeted by another.

"We are learning more about them, and there are six so far that we know about. It's multiples, for sure," the official said.

The official declined to identify the six, but said the individual cited in the letter to the FBI operated along the Texas border with Mexico.

"This guy could die if it got out who he is," the official said. "He'd be killed."

Yeah, the question is, by who? A cartel or a government assassin?

The FBI and DEA referred queries Saturday to the Department of Justice. Officials there said they cannot talk about paid informants, but are attempting to answer the questions from Issa and Grassley.

They noted that they already have provided thousands of pages of documents to Congress, and have answered questions in sworn depositions and open hearings.

"We have been cooperating, and we will continue to cooperate," said an Obama administration official. "We want to learn as much as we can about Fast and Furious, just as they do."

Oh, yeah. Certainly.

In the letter to Mueller, the senators asked if Zapata was armed when he was killed and "if not, why not?" They also asked if his vehicle was bulletproof, and if so, "how was he killed inside of the vehicle?"

Good questions.

Of course what little we DO know about Brian Terry's murder-- thanks to the moral cowardice of Terry's own team members, fellow BP agents and their union boss Bonner who, unlike John Dodson and other ATF whistleblowers have said nothing and risked nothing in revealing the real circumstances of his death -- is dependent upon the FBI. The same FBI that was operating the Mexican end of this conspiracy. The same FBI that allowed three of the border gang taken into custody that night to go back across to Mexico because, in their unchallenged opinion of course, they had "nothing to do with" the Terry murder.

Tell me again why you think the ATF should be abolished and the gun laws enforced by the FBI?

They also asked how many cartel members were paid, if any of the informants had been deported from the United States, and if FBI personnel in Arizona knew of the informants.

The Republican leaders asked to see all "emails, documents, memoranda, briefing papers, and handwritten notes" from and to FBI and DEA field supervisors and agents in Phoenix, Tucson, Nogales and Yuma in Arizona, and in El Paso, Texas.

They are seeking the same material from the FBI case agent investigating Terry's death.

Yeah, I can see why they might want that.

In the end, I think we will find that in terms of overall knowledge and culpability, the FBI had more responsibility for the Gunwalker Scandal than the ATF. And, don't forget, both agencies were dancing to a White House fiddled tune.


BrianF said...

Just take a look at Whitey Bulger. He was an FBI informant. They let him get away with murder, amongst other crimes.
Incidentally, Whitey was involved The Valhalla gun running to N. Ireland. Wouldn't surprise me if US Gov had their fingers in there too.

Yenta of Sipsey Street said...

Nobody died when Nixon lied.

Tvarisch said...

Good ol' COINTELPRO seems to be alive and well, at least in spirit if not in name, and they've moved on from dressing up as Klamsmen and bombing churches to supporting a narco-insurgency. They've come a looooong way from any legitimate mission they ever had. How about we abolish ALL Federal agencies, and the Imperial government along with them?

Scott J said...

Does no good to abolish the ATF until gun laws are repealed to the pre-1934 level.

Mark Alger said...

FBI to enforce gun laws? How about the speech laws? The religion laws? Why are there gun laws at all? What part of "shall not be infringed" escapes the notice?


Anonymous said...

I am not sure anyone has advocated the FBI boys take over ATF duties. I would like to see them all abolished but recognize that won't happen anytime soon.

Is the only reason that you can put forward to not disband the ATF thugs is because their duties would likely go to the FBI thugs?

Why not ban the first thug agency caught red-handed then work on the others?


Dennis308 said...

I have to agree with Scot J. even though I would love to see it happen,but it ain't gonna,unless there is a Second Revolutionary War.
And of course there is NO GUARANTY of how that will, er I mean would turn out.


Lazlo said...

When Nixon lied nobody died.

Ashrak said...

Abolishing, by repeal, the immoral, unjust and flatly unconstitutional infringing gun laws is the solution to the FBI, ATF, DEA, DOJ, DOS, DOHS antics.

As this was across border activity, is there any doubt that the CIA had to be involved here too?

I am starting to think "turf war" has more and deeper meaning than I have previously given it credit for. As I contemplate the "why now" question regarding the Heller decision and the McDonald decision that followed, I am starting to realize GunWalker really is the biggest circle jerk in this nation's history and that MANY more have known about it, and looked the other way, for a lot longer than anyone is so far willing to admit.

The knob controlling the burner on this pressure cooker is broken. There is no turning it off. The only way to avoid the explosion is to open that relief valve. It's time to tell the truth - about all of it - and see the chips fall where they may.

Anonymous said...

Last thing we need is the DEA(F) taking over firearms licensing.

Surely, it's just a rumor?

Pat H. said...

Abolish all the US government's police agencies, none have Constitutional authorization. The FBI was created by executive order to run after a non-existent white slave (prostitution) trade. They've been whoring ever since.

If we can abolish just one US government agency, that's what we do, then we move to the next, then the next, until we wipe them all from existence.

Anonymous said...

The fact that so many SWORN OFFICERS OF THE LAW have willingly and openly chosen to violate their oath, subvert the Constitution and knowingly violate the law and our rights shows how corrupt our system has become and to what extent it needs to be fixed.. Honor a dn duty are historical concepts where civil servants are concerned and their "only ones" mentality is contrary to their service to us, their employer.

Time for a "Fundamental Change" for real.

Yank lll

fgd-anchorage said...

Right on, Mike! I find no warrant in the U.S. Constitution for federal law enforcement officers such as the FBI, ATF, DEA, etc. I am further horrified to learn of (at least one) SWAT Team belonging to the Department of Education (ED). Unglaublich!

There is federal responsibility to secure the borders. There is a disconnect here that needs fixing.

aughtsix said...

^Thousands of them need to go... from Bambi on down. Secretaries, bureaucrats and thug enforcers, all of them.

Execution for treason, prison, deportation and loss of citizenship are all appropriate for the various levels of responsibility and involvement.

Some keep asking, "But who will enforce the arrests of those who control the Justice Dept, etc etc. They control the cops!"

Answer? Who is sovereign in this Republic?


That's what it is going to come to. Get used to it. If we are ever going to be free of these tyrants and criminals, we are going to have to clean up our own house.

Stop waiting for "someone" else to do it for us.


Anonymous said...

Because recruiting decent people as confidential informants does not get you much information on a drug smuggling syndicate.

Dakota said...

What Scott J said ..... Dennis 308, "guarantees" are for those who live in a sheltered society and "wish" that things would change.

Anonymous said...

They should ALL be abolished and their heads put on pikes.

Anonymous said...

Look guys and gals, there's nothing wrong with a government agency which tracks and kills or captures bad guys, nor is there anything wrong with a tax collection agency that simply collects taxes on the sales of firearms, if that is what we decide we want and it does not countermand the constitution and bill of rights.

The problem is that the former now considers all of us the enemy in fact or potential, and they have absolutely no use for the constitution and bill of rights, no matter what comes out of their mouths and all of us, even me, now know it. The latter agency wants to be at least as powerful and famous as the FBI and likewise has absolutely no regard for the constitution and bill of rights and tells the same lies as the FBI.

These agencies are empowered and authorized by congress to do precisely what they are doing, until something goes wrong and people might connect them to the wrong doing.

Now all this wouldn't be so bad but there has been an increased intelligence gathering component, with military and other involvement, which is focused upon the average citizen and not foreign terrorists. Their words do not correspond to the actions they have engaged in or current activities and there is absolutely nothing being done at any level to stop or amiliorate the situation, only reduce the preception of their intents by the public.

At this point the very best we can hope for is a police state but since there are many Marxists driving at least part (and I would argue more) of this, you can bet that it's only a matter of time before they are in charge and what that means for you and your kids. A police state is a police state no matter the political ideology. Marxists just have a particularly monstrous record, who's current activities are strangely avoided by the media, at every opportunity, regardless of how openly displayed.

Freedom, as intended for this country will cease to exist, if the situation remains even static and they are not even close to static. They believe in this course of action and will absolutely run you over to get what they want. You are the enemy until you prove to them that you are not. A very strange place to be considering that the vast majority of us just wanted to be left alone. But that isn't going to be the case.

DC Wright said...

Yeah, federale, but just WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION is a war on some drugs authorized? Your response needs to comply with the Tenth Amendment, by the way. Also, where are the activities of the BATFags authorized by the Constitution? I mean ANY of them, including collecting a direct tax on people, as prohibited by our Constitution. All taxes taken in by fedgov are supposed to go through the states. Sole exception is the barely legal income tax.

Appreciate your response soon.

Cormac said...

The war on some drugs should be called off (call it a cease-fire, victory, abject failure, whatever...who the hell cares?) and the "criminals" released (well...the guys who got caught with drugs, not the ones who killed, beat, raped, etc while under the influence).
Get rid of the gun laws.
Pull ALL federal police as far back as possible (Marshals go interstate to catch escaped prisoners and fugitives, as well as protect federal witnesses, FBI deals with kidnapping and interstate crime including banks and I.D. theft).

If any of them try to overstep their bounds THROW THEM IN PRISON FOR 20-30 YEARS!
You'd really only have to convict a handful; once they realize you're serious, they'll shape right the hell up.