The law I intend to violate in Colorado on 6 July 2013 and how intend to violate it.
Source: SUMMARY OF COLORADO'S NEW GUN CONTROL LAWS.
House Bill 13-1224 prohibits the sale, transfer, or possession of large-capacity ammunition magazines or feeding devices, which includes:
1. a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip, or similar device capable of accepting, or that is designed to be readily converted to accept, more than 15 rounds of ammunition . . .
Penalties for simple possession of large-capacity magazines are:
First-time violation is a Class 2 misdemeanor with a $250-$1,000 fine and 3-12 months in prison. Violation after a conviction for a prior violation is a Class 1 misdemeanor with a $500-$5,000 fine and 6-18 months in prison. . .
"Transporters. A person who possesses a large-capacity magazine for the sole purpose of transporting the magazine to an out-of-state entity on behalf of a Colorado manufacturer of such magazines is also exempt from the law."
It doesn't say what the penalty is for someone transporting magazines INTO Colorado, but I guess we'll find that out.
So, what I need to know, among other things, is:
1. What are the relevant Colorado laws regarding concealed and open carry on the Capitol steps in Denver?
2. Can we get a sizable number of armed folks there on a Saturday to conspire with me to violate the law?
My intention is to smuggle in 100 30 round AR or AK magazines and pass them out to the assembled (armed) crowd. ("Here, take one and pass them back.") They ought to disappear like water in the desert. Then, having violated their unconstitutional law in full view of the television cameras, dare the "authorities" to do anything about.
Carriage of any weapons (especially firearms) is a serious crime on CO state property, unfortunately. Open carry is entirely illegal by one of the provisions of the new laws, at officer discretion.
I was once detained for having a pocket knife, after using it I put it back in my pocket. "Concealed deadly weapon." My carry permit didn't cover it, as CO has laws for carrying concealed pistols, but not concealed knives. Again, officer discretion depending on locality.
Be careful about that, only break the laws you intend to break.
Open carry is legal statewide in Colorado, and local preemption is forbidden, except in explicitly posted places, and in Denver. In defiance of state law, Denver forbids open carry, and the Colorado supreme court has supported their illegal preemption. http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=207
Colorado recognizes many other states' concealed carry permits, but only resident permits are recognized. http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf
You can carry concealed, but the city of Denver has banned open carry. There's a good reference to Colorado laws at http://www.rmgo.org/political/gun-laws.
We're looking forward to you visit!!
Regarding your first question, see Denver Municipal Code, which prohibits concealed and open carry:
Sec. 38-117. - Dangerous or deadly weapons—Prohibitions.
It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to wear under their clothes, or concealed about their person any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or any switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3½) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or other dangerous or deadly weapon.
It shall be unlawful for any person, except a law enforcement officer in the performance of duty, to carry, use or wear any dangerous or deadly weapon, including, but not by way of limitation, any pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun, air gun, gas operated gun, spring gun, sling shot, blackjack, nunchaku, brass knuckles or artificial knuckles of any substance whatsoever, or switchblade knife, gravity knife, or any knife having a blade greater than three and one-half (3½) inches in length, or any explosive device, incendiary device or bomb, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon.
Possesssion of a 30 round mag is also prohibited by Sec. 38-130
(i) Specific magazine prohibited. It shall be unlawful to carry, store or otherwise possess a magazine which will hold or may be modified to hold twenty-one (21) or more rounds.
Penalty. Any person, firm or corporation who is convicted of violating any provision of this section shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars ($100.00) or more than nine hundred ninety-nine dollars ($999.00) and a term of incarceration of not less than ten (10) days nor more than one hundred eighty (180) days.
The code is available at: http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientId=10257
It would also be a class 2 misdemeanor to carry a concealed firearm. The punishment would be 3-12 months in prison, and a fine. They also have authority to make you forfeit any firearm used. See Colorado Code Section 18-12-105 and 110 available here: http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/colorado/
This Colorado Spring pro 2A attorney has some good information on his site that you may find helpful.
I plan on going to the protest as well.
Peter Boyles, an announcer on KHOW in Denver, is planning to organize a magazine swap on July 2. He has talked about everyone bringing a 30 round mag of some description and then just swapping with someone else, thus making both parties felons.
Who knows if he'll follow through but if he does, he'll promote it like crazy on his morning talk radio show.
Maybe you could coordinate your visit with his event...
If you do exactly that, I can just about guarantee you will do time in a Colorado prison. You can't afford to hire a good lawyer and will have a public defender. It won't matter which lawyer you have, you'll be in a Colorado prison. It gets pretty cold in Colorado. They won't let you fully inform your jury about their right to acquit in spite of the law. It is one thing to fight for principles, but you will be openly breaking Colorado law. Break it if you must, but do it privately, not publicly. It is just plain foolish and will accomplish absolutely nothing to break that law in sight of the police. They will just make an example of you, and it won't be fun. We will miss you. This insistence to become a "martyr" puzzles me greatly, unless perhaps your medical condition is not going to allow you to live much longer and you haven't told us yet. Is that what's going on in your head?
- Old Greybeard
The penalties are irrelevant, when one has no intention of permitting an arrest.
I want to be there. If others are in the position I am, with limited funds, and would care to set up a carpool, or maybe rent a coach, maybe that has a starting point in the Appalachians, and makes stops to pick up fellow Resistors on the way west?
Be a good way to spend time as a group instead of showing up as a gaggle of strangers.
Maybe we get stopped on the way by one of those Viper teams, or some hoplophobe with a badge and a intention to show some rebels what his authority is?
If this tyranny is going down, and it is my time to die, I'd much prefer to die in the company of men of Liberty and friends.
Winning is a far better thing though.
Like Mike says, it is time to suck it up and stand for something.
It is time to shake our fist in the face of these tyrants.
OPSEC sez "If you're gonna do it, don't talk about it. If you're gonna talk about it don't do it." It is no benefit to FREEFOR if its luminaries give Leviathan evidence that supports arrest and thus are removed early.
Freiheit uber Alles!
"Like Mike says, it is time to suck it up and stand for something.
It is time to shake our fist in the face of these tyrants."
Agreed. What will they do, arrest hundreds of protesters all uniformly breaking the law? What if thousands gather to do so? How many trials would they like to add to the court system for victimless crimes? It would be a PR nightmare for the new laws, in any case.
Any weapon you carry while breaking the law will be confiscated. Upon conviction & sentencing the weapon(s) will be destroyed immediately.
If I may, I am compelled to correct you mike - on a serious point.
You are not violating or breaking a law with this action.
You are IGNORING an UNCONSTITUTIONAL mandate/ prohibition that government - at local state or federal level- is specifically NOT empowered to impose to begin with.
Admitting to " breaking the law" is a concession in and of itself. It is conceding in an "highly educated and intellectual level" that you are doing something wrong when the reality, the actuality, is that you are doing something RIGHT.
I totally understand the "in your face" attitude you are demonstrating. I walk shoulder to shoulder with you in doing so in my own way here in the police state that is Illinois. I disregard the mandated "unloaded and enclosed within a case"" code daily. I'm not breaking the law however. I am disregarding as having no enforceable affect their unconstitutional code.
I concede nothing to the unjust tyrants. Not even the unjust accusation that I'm "breaking the law". I urge you to adopt the same "language". If nothing more than an additional big middle finger given to the "intellectuals" I urge you to present your admirable actions outside "breaking the law". For we are not the law breakers, THEY ARE! Those who enact and enforce unconstitutional code are the CRIMINALS. We are the INNOCENT doing nothing more than exercising our INALIENABLE, FUNDAMENTAL, ENUMERATED, INCORPORATED RIGHTS.
Concede NOTHING, not even the framing of the "debate"!
Of course if there was a friendly sheriff somewhere in the state that deputized a few hundred people well might give their law a few fits... Just saying.
quote:"The penalties are irrelevant, when one has no intention of permitting an arrest."unquote
Precisely why I'm rolling on the floor in gut splitting laughter. The Death penalty didn't stop every mass murderer either. But what do facts have to do with anything concerning gun control. When the next one commits an atrocity in one of these states..guess what these morons will attempt to do then? I bet you know the answer.
Handing out magazines would be a transfer, so it's a solid intentional violation...
@Jay -- Your info is partially incorrect. Denver's prohibition of concealed carry is preempted by the state's concealed carry statutes. You can carry a concealed gun, if you have a recognized permit,in most of Denver -- can't open carry at all (home rule exemption from state law) and can't carry concealed in any government (all levels) buildings or on the property -- e.g., the grounds of the state capital.
We recently saw a story about a group of reporters getting in the way of Capitol Police who intended to eject an anti-gun demonstrator from the Capitol gallery. Perhaps a "human wall" between you and the LEO's might work. Not linking arms or anything like that. More like just standing in the way and staring off into space not acknowledging the LEO's presence or instructions. I'm going to guess at least a few of them won't want to arrest you anyway. If that's the case they might not need much of an excuse not to.
Why not get a few hundred or thousand with semi auto rifles at the ready while doing these "transfers"? Find out just how willing Colorado's police are to start the next Revolutionary War on their own state's "Lexington green".....
so, promote this plan like crazy.
then the night before hand out said magazines to everyone at an "invitation only" meeting, and tell no one about it.
the next day, as the cops surround the gathering on the state house steps, let them know they're too late. you have nothing for them. you already gave all those illegal magazines away..not that they can prove you ever had them at all.
smuggling has always worked better behind closed doors, and at night.
The state level preemption argument is made by those NOT PAYING ATTENTION.
The Second Amendment has been FEDERALLY preempted. It's called Incorporation.
Fundamental being the key. This COMMANDS that STRICT scrutiny apply. The Feds cannot deny the RIGHT to carry and neither can the states. Cities and other "home rule" units of local government cannot either. I suit willingly that the Doctrine of Selective Incorporation is contrived and convoluted. It absolutely IS! But this is a simple 14th amendment deal.
NO STATE can enact or enforce laws ABRIDGING the privileges or immunities (rights) of the Citizens of the United States.
Folks, the state level preemption argument ended when McDonald was decided. Incorporation MATTERS!
As proof I point to my own state. Illinois. If INCORPORATION was TRULY not the DESTROYER of state preemption arguments the CHICAGO DOMINATED legislature would have already rammed through a may issue system that makes cuomo and Bloomberg jealous. Why didn't it then? Because the 7th already blew that up, that's why. The ILGA is SCARED to do ANYTHING cuz it knows ANOTHER court LOSS is afoot if it tries the same old game.
It's pretty much decided to go forward with municipal and other home rule ordinances to make the lawsuit path complicated. That too will backfire as there will be those who overstep OBVIOUSLY.
Seriously guys. Mike is on the right track here. We have to stand up to the usurpers - unafraid. We START be realizing that the state preemption argument is DEAD! Neither states NOR home rule units of government can LAWFULLY enact or enforce gun control legislation. It's a RED HERRING.
Not long ago it was Barb Boxer herself talking about a federal carry permit structure. Why? Cuz SHE KNOWS state level infringements called permission slips are short timers in the judiciary. She was recognizing that INCORPORATION MATTERS!
States and home rulers have ALREADY been "preempted". The 14th is clear. Sure, case law is still muddy but read heller carefully. Look at WHAT was incorporated. Yes, some courts are still tying "reasonable" in attempt to get "intermediate" but heeler itself destroys that. From interest balancing approach detonation to certain policy choices taken off the table and from the power to decide on a case by case basis being removed from the hands of government to the second amendment is no different - gun control itself is DESTROYED! The home rule versus preemption debate is GONE. It holds NO MERIT.
FUNDAMENTAL rights are the same from zip code to zip code. All this reciprocity talk and permit talk and preemption talk is FUTILE GARBAGE. Just like the possibility of semi auto bans, it's DISTRACTION. Again - look to heller - it's NOT passing muster to ban entire CLASSES of arms. What are fully automatics? Oh yeah CLASS three. ALL of it falls folks. Literally ALL of the PREMISES gun control rests upon FAILS.
Far too many have been CONNED into playing defense when we should be on Offense. I BLAME the NRA for that by large measure. That org WANTS to play the same game as always. It WANTS gun control to remain. Butter that bread. STOP BEING FOOLED. Stop thinking you have to beg for permission and that things haven't changed DRASTCALLY. Incorporation was a MASSIVE VICTORY folks and its time to stop trying to snatch victory from the hands of defeat.
I totally understand the "in your face" attitude you are demonstrating. I walk shoulder to shoulder with you in doing so in my own way here in the police state that is Illinois. I disregard the mandated "unloaded and enclosed within a case"" code daily. I'm not breaking the law however. I am disregarding as having no enforceable affect their unconstitutional code."
Ashrak brought up something that makes me wonder. Now that the current Sillinoise law has been deemed unconstitutional, but the court refused to grant an injunction against enforcement, what happens if you are charged with violating it?
How can you be successfully prosecuted for violating an unconstitutional statute? Seems like "this law is unconstitutional and void on its face" would be an absolute defense.
By calling the abominable acts passes by the CO legislature "laws" you are giving them legitimacy. From now on you should call these unconstitutional acts by the name they properly deserve which is "diktats"
By calling the abominable acts passes by the CO legislature "laws" you are giving them legitimacy. Therefore, you should call these unconstitutional acts by the name they properly deserve which is "diktats"
Go Mike Go! Are you to the point of requesting magazines from supporters? You might find yourself flooded with them. "It's raining PMags" has a nice sound to it. Just say the word.
Discretion being the better part of valor, it might be prudent to hold your rally in a park instead of the capitol steps. Perhaps in a county where the Sheriff is on record as not being willing to enforce unconstitutional laws. I say this because there is no need to step in front of a bus to prove the driver isn't paying attention. There are other ways to do that. Might one suggestthat it should be possible to protest - publicly - without making it virtually certain that you will be jailed by people who would not scruple to let you die in custody.
Final caveat. Court appointed attorneys represent you but they DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! All lawyers are whores - ask one if you doubt it. Whores work for the person or entity who PAYS them. Remember, "ethical attorney" as every much an oxymoron as "honest politician" or "military intelligence".
Either let the folks from Colorado do it, because the people the Colorado electorate voted for made these tyrannical laws or, if you MUST do it yourself, then I agree with BadCyborg. I really say, let the damned Coloradans do it. Stay home in Alabama where the new omnibus gun law that will be signed into law very soon will make Alabama the most Second-Amendment-friendly state in the Union. To Hell with Colorado!
- Old Greybeard
BadCyborg speaks with wisdom here Mike.
This blog is a far better megaphone than rotting in a jail cell.
There will be no shortage of people in Colorado, Connecticut, or New York ready and willing to ignore illegitimate edicts.
These folks are arrogant enough to keep pushing. Sooner or later their agents will knock on the wrong door making absurd demands - just give it time.
In olden times, "Old Graybeard" would be what is called a "Tory."
I second the magazine donation Idea. I'll stamp "Donated by" and my name on the side of it.
Break the magazines down into component parts - body, follower, spring and base plate.
Place the component parts necessary for one magazine in a plastic bag.
Distribute bags of components.
Invite the recipients to become manufacturers of their own magazines.
"militialaw" said "In olden times, "Old Graybeard" would be what is called a 'Tory.'"
No, he's not. I rather think that he is just concerned for my personal safety and disagrees with my tactics. This is not the only thing we disagree on -- Greybeard has posted several times on his lack of faith in God -- but surely we can disagree on specifics of tactics without being disloyal to the Constitution and the natural, inalienable and God-given rights it codifies. (Although GB would disagree about that last. ;-) )
I suggest you use mags that are at least 6 months old. Even if they know you smuggled the mags in, let them try to prove where they came from.
"I will not allow you to arrest me today, Behan." - Wyatt Earp in "Tombstone"
Easy to say when you have the means and the will to back it up.
I lived in Colorado going to one of the handful of good gunsmithing schools in the nation decades ago.
Only LEOs that ever hassled me about arms were Denver and Castle Rock.
Do it and then announce it will likely not get you arrested, you announced it and very well may get arrested. If you wish to make a court case of it, maybe that's the right thing, but going on a hunting trip flying out of Denver DECADES ago, I got profiled for pro-gun stickers on my old truck and the officer asked me if I always travelled with so many arms. I said it depended on where my travels were intended to be. That cost me a LOT of time (but no charges) on the road side. I am sure it is not better now. Fine and well known smith friend of mine just moved to Colorado to work with his family on the team and hasn't been there a year and is looking for places to bug out from the Denver metro area.
Them's the facts, mi amigo. Denver metro area, and NW Colorado LEOs, in general, are about as firearms friendly as the discussions I've had with Josh and Ladd at CSGV.
When I was in smith school, we tended to look at anything on the front range North of Springs as "may as well be the back side of the moon", as far as we cared to travel within the state and Springs has way better gun shows, anyway...Denver is where you buy gas on the way to Wyoming, not to exercise constitutional rights.
Mike, thanks for taking up for me. I believe the physical laws of Nature created us and everything else in the universe. So I prefer to call our rights natural rights rather than God-given rights. Those rights should be defended simply because we are human and as such deserve and desire to be free. Again, there are plenty of patriots in those states to defend their rights against their own tyrannical state governments. By the way, according to the Alabama Attorney General, Colorado does honor Alabama's carry permit, but you probably cannot be armed legally at a political demonstration. Under the Constitution only the Supreme Court can declare a law to be unconstitutional. Before that happens anyone who openly defies a law can be subject to its penalties. I would prefer that Mike was not in a Colorado prison. I think he could do a lot more good outside. I'll bet his family would agree with me.
- Old Greybeard
(Voice of Reason)
Possible COAs and outcomes:
1) Authorities decide to arrent every one of you. No one resists. You do time and your firearms are confiscated and destroyed. You now have a record and may have your permits revoked, so you could never legally own a firearm again.
Outcome: Everyone will see that and will immediately comply with anything .gov says and they'll never ever fight back.
2) Authorities decide to arrent every one of you and some portion of resisters resist. Will all the arms, a kinetic action may ensue, even if unintentionally.
Outcome: One big f'n mess.
3) Authorities let it all happen and no one gets arrested.
Outcome: Resistors feel emboldened to openly resist, and the next act of resistence becomes even more bold. At some point, .gov will crack down with overwhelming force. At which point, resisters can either comply or will be in the middle of a kinetic action.
If you're true to your purpose, you won't let #1 happen. I hope #2 does not happen, but if it does, it will probably cause the rest of the nation to get behind very tough gun control measures. I'd guess a new AWB would pass overnight. If #3 happens, we'll have to wait to see how it affects things in the future, but I'm guessing, based on the fed/state/local reation to the Boston Marathon, they'd be getting ready to use all their new gear.
I'm sure there are more options, but these, IMO, cover the most likely.
@FedUp- I, too, live in Illinois.
From what I've heard, the powers that be are not (not many of them, anyway. Chicago, Rockford, ESL, may be) filing new cases. It may well be that some people WILL be arrested for carrying weapons.
They are NOT dismissing cases filed but not yet taken to trial.
Not knowing the effect an arrest and/or conviction might have on future FOID card or permitting actions, it's real rare for me to pack heat. I wouldn't want to be barred for the rest of my life from legally carrying weapons, or have any of my weapoms stolen by the state.
I'd hate to be denied a permit because I got arrested for carrying six weeks before permits became available. I can wait a while longer. Once Judge Posner's stay is lifted, I'll go for it.
Graybeard would do well to reconsider his lack of faith in God. The scriptures, each written in a specific era/time by many authors, somehow manage to accurately predict many things - most notably the birth, life, ministry, and death of Jesus Christ. The Bible specifically identifies nations & empires that have come & gone. The Bible predicts the rise of the United States, its Christian origins and its anti-Christlike demise (speak like a dragon [the devil]). All prophecy has, or is, being fulfilled. Only God can exist outside of time itself, thus predicting the end from the beginning; He is the Alpha and the Omega. All these fulfilled prophecies are proof of God's existence and that He wants us to know & obey His will. Many other evidences of God exist in the world, for those willing to stop and consider.
I accepted Christ as my savior and redeemer because 20 years ago I came to understand that I could not be an original 3%'er & freedom activist... unless I first acknowledged the Author of my Rights.
He who labors (for Liberty) labors in vain unless he first gives glory to God for giving us our birthright. First among these Rights is the RIGHT TO CHOOSE, for the very act of choice was given to humanity at our Creation in the garden of Eden. Our ability to reason and decide is part of what makes us 'in His image', not automatons; and it is what separates us from mere animals.
The very fact that so many people in 2013 Amerika are avowed heathens or disbelievers is the reason why this nation is as messed up as it is. When a people separate themselves from God through sin, they end up with ungodly leaders and eventually the nation faces disaster. So here we are. And before anyone presumes to set America back on the Constitutional path, they had better first pray to God for guidance and victory, or else our struggles will be for nothing!
As I read the comments here I place my head in my hands. He has no illusions as to what he thinks may happen on those steps. What he is saying is that this his line in the sand. He knows it is what he can do personally. It is something.
What he wants is all the Patriots that he knows are out there to join him. Some one said that his family will sure miss him if he is made to do time in a jail. Sometimes soldiers must leave home, and each time they do they face the possibility that they may not come back.
If his idea is so bad, might I inquire what is worth laying it on the line for.
Simple as this, if you decide to keep waiting for that day to come, when it is just perfect enough for you to finally stand up for yourselves you will keep waiting, and the whole time those who would mean to act with tyranny against you will bleed you continuously.
You all must think you are powerless. Make your own day. I say instead of giving the guy legal advice you put it out there and you get out there.
There is never going to be a moment, you have to make your moment.
Those who would call themselves Patriot should learn that with that term comes the inevitable sacrifice that some Patriots must make.
If I have physically harmed someone or deprived someone of life, liberty or property through the use of force or fraud, then I have wronged (sinned against) that person. I would have also committed a crime. The forgiveness I need is either from the person I wronged or from myself. Just because biblical scripture says something doesn't make it true. I accepted Jesus as my savior and was baptized into a Baptist church at the age of 10. I'm almost 70 now and the older I became the less I believed in God, Jesus, or the virgin birth. Religion continues to be the cause and perpetrator of more atrocities against mankind than anything else. Its purpose is mostly coercion to get money and power. I agree that Christianity teaches good values for living. The rest of it is simply a fairy tale. There simply cannot be a heaven or hell. We must all just be glad we have a life and live it as best we can. Quoting scripture to me is meaningless as far as proving anything, because it simply proves nothing. When someone starts parroting scripture to me to prove something, I just tell him to leave me alone and start thinking for himself. Being a preacher is the most useless occupation one can pursue.
- Old Greybeard
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