(Note: Will some Irregular please give the washtub another jolt and forward this post to the ARFcom comment thread? CPT R.A. Bear of the legendary Dogtown Rangers thanks you in advance.)
Sergeant Sefton sez: "Give that prag a kewpie doll!"
The pistol grip shotgun destructive device conundrum has the prags at ARFcom biting their own flesh in consternation. ODA_564 comes closest to reality in this comment:
I hope you all are aware that several "gun rights" activists are very publicly alerting the Brady Bunch and the anti-gunners to this in order to spark a political showdown over the BATFE.
They call most people on ARFCOM "prags" (pragmatists) and deride (most of) us for not being part of their aggressive crusade that uses this to try and force BATFE and the Bradys' hand to attempt more crushing (but illegal) regulations.
What I seem to get out of their mocking and childish comments is that they think that they can castrate the BATFE over this by manipulating the anti-freedom groups.
Vanderboegh , blogging at The Sipsey Street Irregulars, seems to be leading this charge (http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/11/day-of-reflection-part-one-its-amazing.html and http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2010/11/this-is-going-to-piss-number-of-people.html).
He claims that BATFE has already declared these DDs but refuses to enforce it.
So by his thinking Len and jrzy are agents of the anti-gunners and we are all the equivalent of Jewish capos in the death camps. And all this time I thought I was supporting liberty and the 2nd Amendment.
Let the devouring of our own commence!
Like the kewpie doll, the ATF, NRA and Brady Bunch prance about naked in the light of day.
As Billy Mays said: "But wait! There's more!"
As someone far more knowledgeable about the ATF told me:
"I see NO exemption, NO wiggle room on this "not a shotgun issue". Just a monumental historical fuckup that has finally come to light.
The NRA will have no choice but to fight this out in the halls of Congress. Look at the ATF position on this by reading their ruling from fifteen years ago:"
[ATF Ruling 95-3]
18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE 26 U.S.C. section 5845(f)(2); DESTRUCTIVE DEVICE (Firearm having a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter) 37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags are classified as destructive devices for purposes of the Gun Control Act, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the National Firearms Act, 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.
ATF Ruling 95-3
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) has examined various 37/38 mm gas/flare guns in combination with certain types of ammunition to determine whether these are destructive devices as defined in the Gun Control Act (GCA), 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, and the National Firearms Act (NFA), 26 U.S.C. Chapter 53.
Section 5845(f), Title 26, United States Code, classifies certain weapons as "destructive devices" which are subject to the registration and tax provisions of the National Firearms Act (NFA). Section 5845(f)(2) provides as follows:
(f) Destructive device. --The term "destructive device" means * * * (2) any type of weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary or his delegate finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes . . .'
Section 5845(f)(3) excludes from the term "destructive device" any device which is neither designed or redesigned for use as a weapon and any device, although originally designed for use as a weapon, which is redesigned for use as a signaling, pyrotechnic, line throwing, safety, or similar device.
The definition of "destructive device" in the GCA (18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4)) is identical to that in the NFA.
ATF has previously held that devices designed for expelling tear gas or pyrotechnic signals are not weapons and are exempt from the destructive device definition. However, ammunition designed to be used against individuals is available for these 37/38 mm devices. This "anti-personnel" ammunition consists of cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, and bean bags.
When a gas/flare gun is possessed with "anti-personnel" type ammunition, it clearly becomes an instrument of offensive or defensive combat and is capable of use as a weapon. Since these gas/flare guns have a bore diameter of greater than one-half inch, fire a projectile by the means of an explosive, and, when possessed with "anti-personnel" ammunition, are capable of use as weapons, the combination of the gas/flare gun and "anti-personnel" ammunition is a destructive device as defined in the GCA and NFA. As a result, registration as a destructive device is required. Any person possessing a gas/flare gun with which "anti-personnel" ammunition will be used must register the making of a destructive device prior to the acquisition of any "anti-personnel" ammunition. In addition, the gas/flare guns are classified as firearms as defined by the GCA when possessed with "anti-personnel" type ammunition.
Each gas/flare gun possessed with anti-personnel ammunition will be required to be identified as required by law and regulations (27 C.F.R. section 178.92 and 179.102), including a serial number. Any person manufacturing the gas/flare gun and the "anti-personnel" ammunition must, if selling them in combination, have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a manufacturer of destructive devices and must have paid the special (occupational) tax as a manufacturer of National Firearms Act firearms. Any person importing the gas/flare gun and the "anti-personnel" ammunition must, if importing them in combination, have the appropriate Federal firearms license as an importer of destructive devices and must have paid the special (occupational) tax as an importer of National Firearms Act firearms.
Further, the "anti-personnel" ammunition to be used in the gas/flare launchers is ammunition for destructive devices for purposes of the GCA. Any person manufacturing the "anti-personnel" ammunition must have the appropriate Federal firearms license as a manufacturer of ammunition for destructive devices. Any person importing the "anti-personnel" ammunition must have the appropriate Federal firearms license as an importer of ammunition for destructive devices.
HELD: 37/38 mm gas/flare guns possessed with "anti-personnel" ammunition, consisting of cartridges containing wood pellets, rubber pellets or balls, or bean bags, are destructive devices as that term is used in 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(4) and 26 U.S.C. section 5845(f)(2).
And then he directed my attention to this:
"The letter was written by MJC...Mike Cooney of US v. Glover [JPFO's 'BATFE fails the test']."
Source: On line at http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter10.txt
Department of the Treasury
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Washington, DC 20226
MAR 11 1996 E:CE:F:TE:MJC
This refers to your letter of February 27, 1996, in which you request information as to the legality and classification of a proposed firearm. You desire to make a firearm using a Winchester Model 1300 "Defender," 12-gauge pump action shotgun, supplied from the factory with a pistol grip and never having had a shoulder stock attached. The smooth barrel supplied by the factory would be removed and a fully rifled barrel shortened to less than 18 inches, would be installed.
As defined in Title 18 United States Code (U.S.C.) Chapter 44, Section 921(a)(3), of the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), the term "firearm" means (A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a cartridge by the action of an explosive and (B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon.
The Winchester, Model 1300, 12-gauge pump action shotgun with pistol grip and 18-inch barrel is a classified as a "firearm" as defined.
A weapon made from a shotgun having an overall barrel length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels less than 18 inches in length is a "firearm" as defined in Title 26 United States Code U.S.C., Chapter 53, Section 5845(a)(2) of the National Firearms Act (NFA). A handgun constructed from a new, unused receiver which had never been assembled as a shotgun would not be a weapon made from a shotgun as defined.
As defined in Section 5845(e) of the NFA, the term "any other weapon," includes a pistol or revolver with a smooth bore designed to fire a fixed shotgun shell. A pistol with a rifled bore would not be an "any other weapon" as defined.
As defined in Section 5845(f) of the (NFA), the term "destructive device" means in part, (2) any weapon by whatever name known which will, or may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore diameter of more than one-half inch in diameter.
It is unlawful for anyone to possess an NFA firearm which is not registered in accordance with the provisions of the NFA.
The Winchester, Model 1300 "Defender" with pistol grip and less than 18-inch rifled barrel would have a bore diameter greater than one-half in diameter. This weapon would meet the definition of a "destructive device" under the NFA. In order to make a "destructive device," an individual must obtain prior approval by filing ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm) and paying a $200 making tax. The application cannot be approved if the firearm would be a violation of any State law. Additional information regarding this procedure may be obtained from the following:
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
NFA Branch, Room 5300
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW.
Washington, D.C. 20226
We trust the foregoing has been responsive to your inquiry. If we
may be of further assistance, please contact us.
Edward M. Owen, Jr.
Chief, Firearms Technology Branch
So how does the ATF, the NRA and the Brady Bunch square this circle each in their own corrupt, incompetent way? Without each being exposed for the charlatans they are, I mean?
Under the GCA of 1968, as I see it, the ATF has one out and one out only -- admit serial agenda-driven idiocy and declare an amnesty.
“AMNESTY, n. The state's magnanimity to those offenders whom it would be too expensive to punish.” -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.
And what happens when Remington, Winchester and Mossberg realize with instant horror the legal and economic ramifications of this?
I can hear it now, narrated in the voice of the incomparable Hans Conried:
"Coming soon to a theater near you, a film so horrible it cannot be seen . . . Night of the Living Fudds! Oh, the HORROR!"
To hell with "sporting purpose." That's right out of the Nazi manifesto. And it worked extremely well for them because people observed and obeyed the legal noose tightening around their necks when they could have thrown it off early on and used it to tie their oppressors to rails and run them out of town.
To hell with "destructive device." A man-portable FIREARM is a FIREARM. A BOMB or a MINE is a destructive device. So is an effing sledgehammer. Playing weasel-word games with weasels is a losing proposition. The StreetSweeper drum-magazine shotgun is a SHOTGUN. The SPAS-12 semi-auto combat shotgun is a SHOTGUN. A short shotgun with pistol grip is a SHOTGUN. If it fires shotgun shells...
The prags don't care if outrageous laws -- or fiat regulations -- are on the books because they're not being enforced. YET. That is EXACTLY the excuse the socialists give us for not worrying about ANY bad law they pass. Weimar Republic.
We may never get back to "shall not be infringed," but damn it all to hell, we're not going to Brian Puckett's warned-about Namby-Pamby Land where we tie a pink ribbon around the barrel if ATF mandates it in order to keep it.
I don't much care for organ meats, but I take up the cry: "Bwaaaains!"
Soooo glad that all my shotties are 20ga, heh, heh; well, except for the one I use to launch those 12ga "Pest Control Devices, oh dear...
Since the arfcom feller already posted the link, would you mind allowing some of the 'outraged' comments through?
Admittedly, the chance for any realistic education is relatively small, but the entertainment value should be off the scale.
Yours in Trolldom,
It's like you just showed a soccer ball size wasp nest in the long grass to a bunch of kids.
Each really wants to kick it at the others, but doesn't want to get stung when he does it.
Just got in from opening day of MI firearm season, and another ARFCOMMER beat me to the punch,at least it got done! Thank's Mike, and thankyou fellow ARFCOMER.
Shane M. Ross IIIper
Interestind, would like to read more
Maybe I missed it, but it looks to me like all the Fudds are saying is that a shotgun with pistol grip and LESS than an 18 inch barrel is a DD.
I don't see how a pistol gripped, no shoulder stocked 12 gauge with a barrel 18 inches or longer would be affected.
Post a Comment