Thursday, August 26, 2010

Another one from the Casus Belli Department: Proposed ban on lead core ammunition.

This man is preparing to turn his lead-core ammunition back in to the EPA one round at a time.

Attack of the Green Weenies.

My comment left at the official EPA website:

Regarding the proposed ban on lead core ammunition, I think I speak on behalf of three percent of American gun owners when I say that should it be made into law, we will be happy to return it to the federal government one round at a time.

Mike Vanderboegh
PO Box 926
Pinson AL 35126
Comment Tracking Number: 80b3aeca


Kerry said...

What, not controlled three-round bursts?

Sean said...


Anonymous said...

Just say when and where to send it, we can send it back fairly quickly I suspect. Wonder if haz-mat rules apply, LOL

Toaster 802 said...

If interdicting the ammo supply is not Casus belli I do not know what is. If they intend to cut the ammo supply, it can only mean they intend to act against the citizens soon.

Why are you doing this?

Why do they keep pushing? Who profits from it? Follow the money.

Pat H. said...

My comment:
EPA Representative:

This proposal violates federal law, namely the Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976, therefore cannot be enabled.

Further, the Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, has no basis for existing under the US Constitution, which means that any such regulation will a nullity on the day is is enacted.

This attempt to violate the rights of individuals to be armed with any weapon is unsound.

The EPA will not like the consequences of proceeding further, strongly recommend you take down this proposal and dismiss the author of it immediately.

Comment Tracking Number: 80b3b4b2

Anonymous said...

Comment Tracking Number: 80b3b588


Dakota said...

Well that is one way to stop the Military Surplus ammo.

BUY BUY BUY!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Everything's an election issue now. Let them try.

pdxr13 said...

As our innovative German and Afghan opponents have demonstrated, lead is not required for effective harassment of the enemy.

The important structural components are plywood and copper. Plywood allows a metal-free (nearly undetectable without very expensive high-tech methods) mines, and copper is the most cost-effective/efficient plate for an EFP directed weapon.

Of course, Government forces would be exempt from any restrictions on bullet metal content.

USC 2A is not about food animal harvesting, paper target shooting. Please, come get them.

Casus belli, indeed.

Defender said...

Mobile vehicle scanners, GPS trackers installed without a warrant on vehicles, ban on semi-auto rifles being re-imported from S. Korea. Add it up, and lead is a precious metal.
Keeping mine, using it in practice, woe to anyone who rolls up on me with an objection.

tom said...

My big game solids are solid copper. So they want me to use premium bullets for plinking, is that it?

Defender said...

My comment: Will be universally disobeyed. The government's record on the right to own and carry guns indicates that enforcement of the ban will result in the deaths of American citizens. We wil respond appropriately.

J. Croft said...

Sooner or later we will need to figure out how to roll our own. Bullet, powder, primer, case.

Google cartridge manufacturing, ammunition production. Go to archive sites like and and look under cartridge manufacturing and ammunition.. is also a good place to exercise these terms.

Download chemistry books as well. If you are gifted in this field, perhaps a way can be found to solve why ammopulver does its change at 86 degrees F that turns it into a dangerous flash powder. if that problem can be solved then that would be an excellent go-around trying to make smokeless powder, a complicated chemical process.

Either we solve the ammunition production problem or capture some ammo plants and raw materials sources or we'll go the way of the Boers.

Anonymous said...

Since when did the EPA become a legislating power? They just get pass whatever laws without the approval of congress? Starting to sound like BHO - just to hell with Congress and the people....**sigh**

flacmonkey said...

This proposed change is more serious than most people realize, it won't just make ammo expensive, it will make handgun ammunition illegal. Armor piercing handgun ammunition is illegal, and handgun ammo made of just about any metal, other than lead, is considered armor piercing.

US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, § 921, Section 17, Sub-section B:
The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Full text here:

Paul X said...

My comment was, "I hope you do it. A revolution is just what this country needs."

Anonymous said...

Interdicting the ammo supply is EXACTLY what the Brits did in the late 1700's and started the revolution. Is there no reason to believe that doing so again would yield the same result?

Let'em do it and find out. If they want my ammo, I'll include air shipping. (wink)

Realistically, there are plenty of us that would simply make our own. There are still lead deposits around or other ways of getting lead and copper. If nothing else, we can make our own out of copper. A new black market would emerge.

Locked and loaded.

Bad Cyborg said...

Mike, please do another blog explaining to some of the people here exactly why we cannot have a latter day Ft Sumter. You are a historian - DAMN good one at that. Please explain why Sumter and one other fort were kept in operation. Also make sure that the historically challenged among us know how utterly unnecessary the reduction of Ft Sumter truly was.

I see so many like Toaster802 that it scares me. Please explain to them why it is imperative that THE FEDS fire the first volley.

Bad Cyborg X

CorbinKale said...

I sent them my comments, below. I consider it a 'professional courtesy'.

When the law ceases to protect the citizens from the government, then neither does the law protect the government from the citizens.

Be very certain that you are prepared for the unintended consequences of your actions. A civil war is an absurd method to employ, as a means to 'protect the environment'.

Please, reconsider your proposed course of action to further infringe upon our Constitutionally protected Right to keep and bear arms, by the backdoor method of banning and restricting ammunition. We will not take one more step back.

John H. said...

The prevailing myth here seems to be the idea that they'd actually send people to confiscate the existing supplies of lead ammunition.

What they're going to do is ban the production of lead ammunition after a certain date. That's how they always do it.

There will be no roundups. There will be no raids. No one is going door-to-door.

Which means you guys would need to fire the first shot - something you will not do.

Which means there will be no war. They're going to get away with it.

Anonymous said...


I've done .375H&H Mag and .458 Lott handguns and a .50BMG handgun has been done by MORE THAN ONE PERSON.

So by your reckoning of Armor Piercing Handgun Ammo Being "illegal", ALL AMMUNITION is illegal.

Should I introduce you to my .222, .223, .243, or .30-30, or .303Brit handguns as well...??? Notice that T/C has sold RIFLE caliber Handgun barrels for YEARS as have many other vendors. Nobody has ever been prosecuted for it.

If I'm gonna worry about bs like that, I'm in "constructive posession in my mind of all sorts of illegal things, not to mention on my bookshelf, because I know how things can be made.

Either we kick 'em in the balls on this or play the NRA "roll over and suck them off again" game".

I'm for kicking them in the balls.

And, my T/C pistol repetoire probably makes all the rifle ammo you ever will own in your life "illegal armor piercing handgun ammo" if you read the law the way you seem inclined to.

You're welcome.

Kerodin said...

I can't recall any of my elected leaders having campaigned on: saving the planet via lead reduction in ammunition, making the streets safer by installing speed/red light cameras, making the skies safer by installing body scans, preventing crime and/or terrorism via mobile scanners on trucks... et cterea.

By the same token, I have not heard any candidates running to ban these activities, either, even from the Tea Party.

The corruption, this march toward 1984 is institutionalized.

Draw your own conclusions.

btw: John H. is right, in that all actions taken to counter the III perspective are done by attrition and a reliance upon the fact that no one will start a ruckus based on a court ruling.

The "one" guy/gal who does will be squashed with overwhelming firepower, a lesson for anyone else who would be so bold as to challenge the will of Government. Government has no need for a bold piece of direct action...time will do the work for them.

The frog slowly boils...

Anonymous said...

I suspect most will switch over to lead-free rounds while burying caches of their lead ammo supplies. As the years go by many of those caches will be lost, forgotten, or otherwise become inaccessible. Like that will be good for the environment.

It's kind of ironic this whole proposal is intended to keep lead bullets out of the ground but would only result in that very same outcome on a much broader scale. If we acquired lead from the ground to make the bullets then what is wrong with some of those bullets returning to the earth via our firearms? Aren't we actually recycling here?!

Anonymous said...

On the road recently - went for my morning walk, from the motel to a nearby intersection. Picked up 6 pounds of wheel weights in about 30 minutes - FWIW


Anonymous said...

I am assuming, yes I know, that a "ban" on lead as a component in ammunition will be impossible to enforce if you grandfather existing ammunition stores. There would be no realistic method to determine when a bullet was manufactured, hence the new law/regulation would have to state that as of "x", all ammunition containing lead components will be banned.

That being the case, there are a lot of folks who have invested significant amounts of money in ammunition and bullets as components that have yet to be loaded as ammunition. Unless TPTB plan on compensating us at CURRENT MARKET RATES for what we must discard, nobody in their right minds are going to willingly accept significant financial losses on a product used for centuries, simply because some bureaucrat in Washington says they're bad.

Just Say No to encroaching on our freedoms. Just Say No to allowing the theft of more of our property. No More!

Anonymous said...

John H. is spot on in his analysis.

No one is coming to confiscate your ammo they loaded cartridges or components.

They are going to instantaneously cut off foreign surplus and outlaw and new production of lead core ammo at some specific date...And we aren't going to do a damn thing about it but continue to complain on the internet.

Prices on ammo are going up fellas. If you haven't placed orders now, you'd probably ought to consider it.

If you have the where with all to open a new business....a new ammunition plant based on 'green' bullets might be a real money maker especially if you supply ammo to foreign military rifles that will have a very limited supply after this new regulation goes into effect.

Let's not kid ourselves though....we're going to swallow this bitter pill like we do every encroachment on our freedom. We'll continue to do it until our lives are so miserable that we no longer worry about our comfort level and what we risk b/c we'll have nothing to lose.

Pericles said...

To the Honorable Senator / Representative Whoever,

Dear sir,

I have recently become aware of the proposal currently before the EPA to ban the use of lead in the manufacture of firearms ammunition. You can put a stop to this silliness or we can. If we have to do it, you may not find the results as tidy as you would like.


Little Sally Sunshine said...

Well, whatever we have on hand may be enough, but if not, we can just use whatever the current stock-on-hand at our local military armories and depots.
They will become ours, you know.

fireplaceguy said...

So the EPA has decided to march on Concord by way of Lexington.


Justin said...

Earlier statement:
"Let's not kid ourselves though....we're going to swallow this bitter pill like we do every encroachment on our freedom."

Speak for yourself, please. Many of us will NOT just bitch about this on the internet. In fact, the DAY this goes into law, I will no longer be participating in the blogosphere. Honestly though, I imagine this dies and is not successful.

"Please explain to them why it is imperative that THE FEDS fire the first volley."
They won't. That's what many misunderstand. They won't fire first. They will keep pushing, like a kid bully, until we push back. We resist, or they boil us slowly. Wake up. No more Fort Sumters? Please. Your context is wrong. We are not talking 1861 here. We are talking 1776. Or 1984. Take your pick.

I imagine I get some flak over this one. Oh well. For crying out loud though, is that "done backing up" thing a joke to some of you? What, we're "done backing up, except in this one case"???

Not one inch. Not one freaking inch.


Legal Alien said...

My comments submitted:-

"You implement regulations that make it difficult, more expensive, or impossible to effectively take care of my own and my family's safety, I WILL hold you personally responsible for any harm that comes my way.
AND, I swear to GOD, I will make your bureaucratic ass pay for it.
THis is my line in the sand.
Prevent me from obtaining ammunition at reasonable market prices and or attempt to remove what I have in my possession at the moment, I WILL give it up, ONE BULLET AT A TIME!!

The next move is yours!!"

Comment Tracking Number: 80b3c27b

Justin said...

Remember, resistance to tyranny does not necessarily mean firing on Fort Sumter.

"Resistance to Tyranny".
A good book.


Defender said...

There are hundreds of millions, even billions, of rounds of traditional lead ammunition in our hands. We did not buy it to let it become museum relics or to hand it in, no matter what the compensation rate might be. A $500 gun might have $5,000 worth of ammo for it in our secure storage area, with a shelf life of 200 years or more.
There are certain basics that cannot be negotiated. This is one of them.
Events seem to be converging. The first shot the "no Fort Sumter" people keep talking about doesn't have to be literal to be deadly. It is a long-stated goal of gun control proponents that they'll take our bullets, and we can keep the guns. Does anyone believe if lead projectiles go away, bismuth and copper will be around for long?

Dedicated_Dad said...

No question that's past my personal "line" - but I'm not going to go fall on my sword to try to make a "point."

Sadly - as has been said - we'll just take this too.

God help us...


Pat H. said...

It is true that the EPA would attempt to stop lead containing ammo production at the factory and not individually, however, that's not their vulnerability.

The EPA's vulnerability is at places such as these EPA facilities. You see the parking lot full of cars, at least one person is attached to those cars.

These kinds of facilities are located in a variety of places, the one above is in North Carolina.

They can't be protected.

Uncle Lar said...

As I recall the anti gun nuts tried a similar end run via the CDC a few years back trying to declare firearms a health hazzard. Congress sat them down smartly and explained that they would withhold dollar for dollar any funds the CDC spent on gun control efforts. And so that particular threat evaporated quickly since the true heart of any government agency is its yearly budget allocation.
So, in an election year it shouldn't be so hard to squelch this, especially given it's in direct violation with legislation already enacted by congress, that ammunition exemption others have referred to.

Hollywood said...

May be the lead needs to be returned to the EPA, one round at a time.

There are EPA buildings in a lot of places.

They even provide a google map to find the closest location, to return your lightly used lead.

Barack H. Smegma said...

I note with interest the location of their computer center, Surely that would be a fascinating place to tour.
Even from a distance.

Uncle Al said...

Here's my EPA comment, certainly to be ignored because it presents concepts that won't fit inside a bureaucrat's head:

The U. S. Constitution limits the power and authority of government and specifically prohibits infringing my right to keep and bear arms. It is up to me, not the govt, to define the meaning of "arms" and I define it to include lead core firearms ammunition along with other materials and devices.

Any attempt by the govt to make lead containing ammunition unavailable will be a violation of the Constitution.

I have been patient and accommodating for far too long and will not sit by complacently and allow any further infringement of my rights, or any further restrictions to be forced upon me. Such action by the govt will be considered an initiation of force, and I will vigorously defend myself and my family with appropriate force in return.

Comment Tracking Number: 80b3d3b2

Sedition said...

EPA Rejects Calls to Ban Lead in Ammo, Fishing Tackle

Anonymous said...

Drudge links to report that they have capitulated for now: