Saturday, June 22, 2013

Another 3% "How to Avoid Being Killed by Federal Law Enforcement Agents."

3% of the time I have to deal with sadistic megalomaniacs who have no business being Agents in the first place. They give all of us a bad name and the armed citizen is right to hate their guts.


Anonymous said...

They are all Baby murdering NAZI SCUM. Ruby Ridge and Waco were the wakeup call for amerika. WE HAVE NO RIGHTS any FLEA is bound to respect. They are the Overseer's for our "masters". They torture, they murder they rape. They are modern Death camp guards. No matter what they do-no matter how violent -unjust or evil, no FLEA will ever be punished or reprimanded. They are ALL utter EVIL. The satanic scum of our earth. They are serial killers, child molesters, mercenaries and lawers. They are the vomit on the sidewalk of our nation.

Anonymous said...

I think FIBBIE Bob needs to do a little better his math exercise. 5%, 3% and 1% seem way low according to my personal life experience and that of what I have read about.

Perhaps, we could ask the surviving members of the Weaver family about those numbers, or the few who survived the Waco massacre. I am sure there are plenty of other examples from which to draw.

Then again it is ok for LEO's to lie as a course of doing business so we can take what he says with a huge dose of salt.

Sorry, Bob. I think your numbers are way off.


Paul X said...

Looks like the commenters under the article weren't buying it, heh. I guess it's not 1950 any more, cops. That's what 2.3 million Americans in jail, more per capita than even the worst hellhole dictatorships, does for ya. Have a nice day...

SWIFT said...

Anonymous@6:04 AM, stole my thunder. As you all know, after Waco, Janet Reno ordered the FBI to meet with militia leaders across the country in an attempt to 'put a human face on the FBI.' Many leaders refused, knowing the FBI would just use the meeting in an attempt to information mine the individual. Never, ever trust these people. Never, ever believe anything positive written about them. It has to be a lie! Avoidance, is the best policy for survival.

Anonymous said...

The FBI agent who just pumped SEVEN bullets into an UNARMED man a few weeks ago comes to mind. Even if what he claims regarding the victim attacking him by virtue of ..uh..let's see, was a sword, and then..a knife..and then a steel pole..umm..then..a broomstick..and then, a chair..and then..the table..and then.... he was unarmed. right. And now..ZERO..ZILCH..NOTHING..NOT A WORD..OTHER THAN THE FOX WILL "INVESTIGATE THE FOX. right. In other words, move on folks..nothing to see here. Well, what they've really managed to do is make people start to believe they killed him because he knew something about the Boston affair they do NOT want to become ANY cost..including human life.
All I know is after 60 yrs on this planet, and at least 15 run in's with LEO's, I've NEVER EVER been treated with one ounce of respect. On the contrary..after calling the California Hiway patrol after my car was stolen, when they came to my home, guess what? They pulled their guns on ME, and began questioning ME as if I was the perpetrator. On another occasion after my son was beaten by a gang, the local gestapo arrived in mass, only to throw me on the ground and handcuff my own front yard.

This is why I now consider the LEO..a possible criminal who will kill me for any reason they deem. Fuck em.

William Flatt said...

Interesting article, but the first two comments here are getting a bit hung up on the math. The takeaway from this fellow's article is the USE OF FORCE CONTINUUM. This is a standard policy that ALL enforcement agencies have, since gov't = force.

The question ultimately becomes one of using or NOT using force in a given situation... meaning you the citizen. We all know it's getting pretty bad out there in the police states of Amerika, and it's one of the big reasons why I gladly gave up the badge to accept a promotion to Private F'ing Civilian. Yes, there are still quite a few good public servants out there and as patriots we have to be mindful of that fact when interacting with FLEAs & LEOs. However, the percentage of jackbooted thugs (JBT's) is growing rapidly as policing gets more militarized. The tendency of the 'just following orders' crowd to jackboot their way through an encounter is increasing, and that is accelerating the hazard for the good guys who still wear the badge.

Ultimately it all comes down to the Nuremberg Principle. If policemen out there think that as long as they avoid being a "sadistic megalomaniac" or a "Jack Booted Thug", that they aren't part of the problem, then they're wrong. By continuing to participate in an institution that is becoming more & more the muscle of tyrants, they slowly become the Jack Booted Thugs that they sincerely believe they aren't. By abandoning a hard unchanging principle, either civic or moral or both, they allow themselves to be gradually changed. And that is how in a restored Republic, they may find themselves at Nuremberg II defending themselves from charges of depriving free men and women of their God-given rights under color of law (which BTW is a felony)... and getting a ride at the end of a rope for it.

The problem with UOF is that in the hands of a regular decent public servant, it is a tool to enforce proper obedience to due process & punish the rogue public servants who use excessive force. But in the hands of agencies filled with Jack Booted Thugs, UOF is the policy to incrementally increase force to gain compliance, regardless of the legitimacy of the initial contact (i.e., Terry stops). This is how they have been teaching it for the last 15 years that I've been taking in-service training... The tyranny in the USSA has changed the threshold where government men (and women) can tread on you. It used to be probable cause was absolutely needed under the law, it is what it should always be, but is no more. Suspicion is now the new minimum and that's the rotten foundation.

“Bob” may sincerely think he's one of the good guys, or more likely is just trying to convince himself (and us) that he is; even throwing out there that he's a libertarian. If he were truly a libertarian, and meant it, he would not be wearing a badge and agreeing to be an instrument of collective force against the will of other people. As far as I am concerned, he is 1) a false libertarian; 2) a JBT, or 3) both. I agree that people should be aware of things like UOF and how it affects them, but Bob's message is essentially one of 'think twice or an agent may choose to kill you'. We know that already. In a nation where police routinely kill innocent people because they were instinctively defending themselves against criminal assault by police forces, we are aware of this. We are aware that by order of the “President” (der Fuehrer), any citizen anywhere can be killed for any reason (or no reason), nobody is really safe. We know about indefinite detention, and so forth. We're not intimidated by such 'warnings'.

William Flatt said...

(...continued from my previous post)

For us, we have a more precarious situation to face in the meantime until Nuremberg II. We don't know at what point the average officer who initiates contact with us is more likely than not to harbor intent to deprive us of rights, and you'll never know until you've already been engaged. You can't preemptively act or assume that the officer intends to criminally assault you and if you do, you're the bad guy. And like "Bob", I must declare in the strongest of terms that what I have to say doesn't and shouldn't be construed as advice, counsel, mindset, intent etc.; but at some point if trends continue, each of us is inevitably going to be accosted by a JBT who thinks he's just reasonably doing his job. That officer/agent will expect servile obedience and will increase his use of force incrementally till he gets your obedience.

Here's my observation and tactical assessment:

The only way for a citizen who refuses to be a victim to NOT be subject to the absolute control of a JBT [that you later reasonably believe means to do you harm] is to never ever travel alone, for one. If you are alone you are a target and an easy one at that. You are at the mercy of their UOF doctrine no matter what you do. Buddy system, guys. Militiamen need to start applying force protective posture principles. Never go out without having a plan and without someone to back you up at any moment, just like the cops do.

The second thing to NOT get killed when confronted by a JBT is you have to be prepared mentally and physically to kill that nazi SOB first. If you dick around, as "Bob" points out, they will escalate until they decide to kill you, and that escalation can happen in a split second, the instant that you are perceived as a "level red" threat.

We've all burned in our hearts every time we've seen these JBTs inflicting their evil upon peaceable, innocent Americans. At some point we ALL may become that person, or be there when someone you know and care about (family, friend, fellow militiaman... whomever) gets the business end of the police state. And the only thing that can effectively stop it is sudden maximum force. If you were the one that has been approached, your chances of not getting killed are slim to none if you try to respond to unlawful force; you will likely be outnumbered two to one from the outset, or more. And like I said, until you become a victim of criminal escalation, anything preemptive on your part makes you the bad guy.

So the third thing to do is have an overwatch element. If you (and anyone else in your vehicle) get stopped and accosted, and if the officials decide to get froggy and do something to those who are stopped, then there will be that third party who (assuming they always travel properly equipped), will be able to stop that criminal/official assault decisively at the first clear sign of imminent danger. Of course, radio comms are going to be as necessary in travel as one's liberty teeth.

Like I said, this isn't advice, etc., and I am not advocating anything criminal. You're smart people, so I will let you take from this what you will. But unless someone has a better idea, this is the only solution that I can readily think of to an encounter with JBT's while you're out there in the world. Just remember that if you are able, try to position yourself so that the dashcam in the patrol vehicle records the fact that YOU did nothing to the officer, and that your hands were EMPTY at the time that his assault on you is suddenly terminated by your overwatch. That way, you cannot be accused of being a cop killer or anything like that. The most they can do is call you a 'material witness'.

Anonymous said...


Another deluded cop running his mouth convincing himself that his people have a monopoly on force and omniscient brotherhood watching over them. Until unconventional warfare starts. Yeah all that ammo bought up by the "civilians" is a bit intimidating, ain't it pussy? Collapsible batons will destroy any bone they hit? Bwahahahaha. That's not what the law enforcement, agents and operators have stated in their career experiences on In fact, they're pretty much deemed as useless. What's next? Tell us the marksmanship abilities of your blue breathren? Oh and tasers are potential lethal weapons, not equivalent of OC spray, any pointed in one's direction in an unlawful manner should be met with instant force.

If illegal actions are taken by thugs, extreme violence is the only option with the goal of neutralization or death. There is no resisting just a little bit, we understand that.

Anonymous said...

Rules. Bullshit cool-aide for the masses. From what I've seen, Bob’s alleged “rules” are just guidelines for how to phrase the report so as to get away with whatever criminal act the LEO or FLEA committed.

I am utterly and totally convinced that a rebellion/revolution/insurrection is coming and when (not if) it does, everyone wearing the uniform of a LEO or FLEA will convert to targets. Those shiny badges will make very nice aim points, indeed.

Ed said...

As an exercise in understanding and to deflate some of the overblown assumptions, for every word "Agent" I substituted the word "human":

"Defeat is not an option to the human. If you’re beating them to the point where they believe they’re going to lose consciousness, the human is going to shoot you until you stop. The human has every reason to believe that you’re going to kill them at that point. Unconsciousness = inability to defend one’s self and therefore unconsciousness = death, so the human is going to shoot until the threat is stopped. Similarly, if you’re beating him/her to the point where they believe you are going to seriously injure them, the human is going to shoot you until you stop. You might have guessed this already, but you’ve crossed over into the realm of DEADLY FORCE."

This is now more understandable. Too bad the George Zimmerman jury in Sanford, Florida will not see it.

William Flatt said...

BadCyborg, nail on the head, bro!

Revolution is coming. I bet that MV will post elsewhere, but in case he doesn't, let me throw it up here:
Nearly 30% Of Americans Advocate For An Armed Rebellion

Again, buddy up and train on overwatch techniques so everyone but the JBT's make it home at the end of the day!

Robin said...

As the first responder under the original post, I just want to say that I do not want to be associated with most of you. Some of you sound like nut cases just waiting for a chance to take a father/mother away from their children, or make the front page of the paper. If I have to die to oppose tyranny, so be it, but I'm not looking forward to it. Why are you looking forward to the anarchy and death that would come? I fought for my country, but you sound like you just want to fight.

Doc said...

We need to look at this article for what it is. It’s law enforcement doctrine. Doctrine that will be used and doctrine that will be presented as exhibit A in any resulting trials. Doctrine that will be accepted as “right and reasonable” by a judge and most juries.

Ignore the percentages of cops out there that are good and bad. This is what they are taught and what is expected by their agencies.

The conventional wisdom over the years has stated that it makes no sense to argue with someone who has the legal authority and means to kill you. The relief mechanism was always thought to be someone higher in the cops chain of command, or even in a court of law (civil or criminal).

The conventional wisdom no longer carries as much weight as it used to. Review boards in police departments rarely if ever come down on the side of the citizen, even in the face of visual and audio evidence. The cop is virtually always found to be correct.

Our court system is no longer accessible to the average citizen.

If you can find a lawyer who will take your criminal case and attack the system that he is a member of, bring your checkbook. You’ll send thousands up front and even more if it goes to a trial.

Civil court is even worse. Here in SC I was told by a judge that unless I was an attorney, I could not plead my case. A civil case against my business, and of which I was named individually as well as the business. I didn’t have the money for an attorney, so needless to say, I lost.

At the end of the day, we all need to accept this valuable information for what it is….. information. Knowing their continuum of force is useful to know how far you can go in your resistance. The truth is the truth. Whether it’s a good doctrine or based on any reasonable or legal foundation is beside the point at the time of confrontation.

Knowing what can and will happen, all of us have to decide how we will deal with it.

Before the confrontation, you can lobby our politicians to change the laws. You can post info on blogs, organize rallies, you name it. You might be successful, and this usually involves no risk of harm to you.

Once contact is made, we have to decide if we are going to go along with it or confront it.

If you choose to confront it, you need to have planned for and decided to execute your own response continuum. This is a serious decision and as the author points out, it will more than likely end badly for you. You may win the battle at the point of the confrontation, but their army is bigger than yours. The system doesn’t take confrontation well. And or by the way, they probably know who you are from your license plate, driver’s license, etc. If this is your decision, be prepared to have to live with it and do it knowingly.

Or perhaps option three is to take good notes. I’m assuming that everyone is building their own intel files on who the good guys are, who the bad guys are and who is uncommitted (maybe good, maybe bad). Your personal confrontation (and the execution of your response continuum) may be the shot heard around the world, but probably not.

No Fort Sumters.

Anonymous said...

Gotta agree with William Flatt's assessment.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, more tough guy talk. Unfortunately for them, while they're circling up for a little Rodney King action, they've just made themselves a soft target.

An old lady with a Buick could swerve into them and take out a good dozen or so. No need for a trained sniper to pick them off one by one.

Or the car and driver could be bait, while they're tasing, pepper spraying, and beating the crap out of the guy, they're not noticing the odd panel detailing of the vehicle, then BOOM, 50 embeded claymore mines in the vehicle cut them to shreds.

Once the tolerance of the people vanishes I suspect things will turn into an all consuming war. Maybe with some luck, 5-7% of the US population will survive by running for the borders the second things turn ugly.
As time goes on I think that number would drastically shrink as those who plan to bail out, have already done so. Sort of like those ancient cities on the plain where some said to themselves, "Ya know, all these heaps of sulfur they're mining, and piling up, that stuff is REALLY flammable. Maybe we should move before some drunken idiot sets one of the heaps on fire and kills us all." ;)