Sunday, June 30, 2013

American standard

This graphic arrived in email with the following comment:
The "Big 12" List. (My own term)
American use ammunition that is so historically established, its continued use and legacy is ASSURED for American perpetuity. Buying anything else is simply shortchanging your posterity. (Unless you reload, OR stock in a LIFETIME supply of said ammunition, including training rounds.) Here we go...........
1. .22 LR
2. .38 special
3. .357 magnum
4. .45 ACP
5. .45 Colt
6. . 223 / 5.56 Nato
7. .30-.30
8. .30-.06
9. 7.62 x 39
10. .308 / 7.62 Nato
11. 20 gauge shotgun
12. 12 gauge shotgun
Oh, and for my friend who purchased a .45GAP pistol, I TOLD YOU SO.
I also won't discuss my friend who bought an MAS-49 rifle that shoots 7.5 x 54 French. Good luck.


Anonymous said...

I would add 9mm and .40S&W to that list. Both are very common rounds, in fact prior to the ammo panic all of the gun shops in my area typically stocked more 9mm and .40 S&W then .45 ACP and a heck of a lot more then .45 Colt. Since the ammo panic, when ammo shows up it is more often 9mm and .40 S&W, .45 ACP is less likely to show up and .45 Colt is almost unobtainable.

I would also think that since the 9mm is used by the police and military and .40 S&W is used by the police, that the manufacturing priority is on producing those rounds.

Old Top said...

I will agree with his selections, but say this . . . don't look down your nose at the MAS56, FN49, No4 MkII, and K98. Each of those is a combat proven weapon, with all the bugs worked out.
If you were smart enough to buy the rifles and ammo for them, you're in good shape. I have at least 800 rds for each of mine and can reload another 800 apiece; and I ain't the brightest spark out there.
Nice to have the ability to put you down at 500 meters, in reach all the time, and all of that for the price of one 'Space Gun'.

Anonymous said...

I find it very odd the 9mm is not on this list. It is more commonly used and more widely available than many of the other calibers on the list, including ALL of the other handgun calibers. It is used by the US military and law enforcement (it makes sense to own a firearm that can fire the ammo you scrounge off the corpses of opposing forces), it is relatively inexpensive, effective and manufactured in large quantities by every major manufacturer.

Mark III

Slobyskya Rotchikokov said...

Agree on the 9mm; but as for rifle ammo, I have been in some of the smallest, most backwoods ( not a slur! ) one-horse towns in the USA and know that you can find a box or two of 30-30, 30-06 and 22 LR on the shelf of a general store, gas station or fishing supply hut.
And like somebody pointed out, in a SHTF scenario, there will be lots of bad guys who will happily give you their ammo when they can't use it any longer.

FG said...

FG says: Anonymous, I absolutely agree that the classic 9mm Nato round should be on the list, and I humbly apologize for its previous omission.

I'll dismiss ANY criticism of the .45. acp or .45 Colt due to the simple fact that those pieces have been in constant, selling, multi-million unit production for well over 100 years.

No doubt an effective round, due to its relative "newness" as carry sidearm fodder I'll hold off of the legacy of the .40 S&W. Talk to me in another 10 years.

Old Top, I don't look down my nose at ANY gun. I just hate to see people purchasing defensive weapons they are going to be unable to feed. If you're a collector, fine. If you've deep stocked a LIFETIME supply of ammo, fine. However, my gut says that Americans right now are buying firearms as working survival tools. Tools that may literally be tasked to protect your children's children. They'll need ammo.

I keep thinking of the Guardian of the Grail, The Ancient Knight from "Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade." Don't let him say "He chose poorly" after you bypass that well-worn .30/.30 lever gun and snatch up that mint condition milsurp FN-49 rifle in French
7 x 57.

We all know what happens next.

RVN11B said...

I completely agree with Old Top!

Hefferman said...

Wow, guys your news is bad at best.
Your research is worse.
Ammo is out there and easy to find, you just have to look for it some place other than Wal-Mart.
Here is a link to GunBot, it looks for and finds cheap ammo in all calibers.

Jimmy the Saint said...

Can't speak for the rest of the country, but .243 and 7.62x54R have been two of the relatively easier rifle rounds to find in some quantity in Southern California during the ammo shortage.

I've also seen .303, 8mm Mauser, and .35 Rem with reasonable regularity, but not necessarily in quantity.

Ed said...

I would also add .380 ACP, 9mm NATO and .40 S&W to that list. There are enough pistols out there in government and private hands to require ammo for them for many years to come. Sales of pistols in all three calibers continue to do well. These calibers will still be popular and in common use in ten years.

Anonymous said...

There's one hard and fast rule that never changes. The best gun is the one you have with you when you find something needs to be shot. That super trick tack driver back home in your safe won't be much help.

True Blue said...

Don't forget that a .357 Magnum can also chamber .38, .38 short, .38 long, .38 special and positive etc. Versatility makes sense in an uncertain market.
I always also liked the idea of being able to use the same ammo loadout for both pistol and long arms; for example a Winchester mod. 92 lever action that uses the same Colt long .45's as your handgun.
This is like chess on wheels, and he who thinks the furthest ahead wins.

tom said...

I'm with Old Top, other than personal rifle choices varying to a degree.Side note--7.5x54 is easily made from 6.5x55 Swede. I will also point out that 6.5mm chamberings are more popular in Europe than any common American chamberings, so I don't see any stoppage of 6.5 brass manufacture. Add on that that 6.5 Swede is as popular as .30-06 and .270 in Europe, if not more so, and is used regularly on moose. So a Swede in the closet might not be a bad idea for Old Top's list.

Informal Texas Sniper King Match at the NBRSA last year was swept by 6mm Dasher. 1000 yards, cold barrel, no spotter. Only commercial cartridge on the top 10 was 7Mag. You can't even buy brass for Dasher. Nobody had any problems having rounds on hand.

Sure, you can and should have firearms that use more common ammo if you are expecting a war, especially Mil/Police favorites, as that is common sense. Perhaps more common sense than .22LR, as rimfire ammo is dodgy to make safely at home and the supplies will run out if it's made no longer available for sale.

That said, there is purpose in having more specialized kit that you can't buy at walmart anyway.

Amigo smith just shot a 13.7mm group at 300m, shot at Swiss Club “any sights, any rifle” comp. Five shot “rapid” even though the time given made it nearly an unsighted application. .260 Tikka T3 Sporter. Go do THAT with anything on your list.

Different arms have different applications. Things aren't an either/or decision.

Sure, if you can only (or choose to) afford a handful of firearms, buy only commonly feedable things. BUT, Learning to re-load is a GIVEN if you intend to prepare for the worst.

Remember the above, at the NBRSA Sniper challenge, not a solitary .50BMG or .338 Lapua made the leader board at 1000. I didn't see a single thing on your list in attendance. Was open to all chamberings and rifle weights. 6mm Dasher, that you literally can not buy ammo for, best group was under 4" at 1000, particular rifle was originally built for p-dog shooting, hence the light weight non bench-rest stocked weighing in at 11lbs loaded and scoped. Shot against the Lapuas and BMGs and the 6mm gang in heavy and light rifle. Ain't gonna do that with anything on your list.

For militia people--when tactical sniper matches became common, the inherent accuracy of the 6mm range made anything bigger fall by the wayside. Started out with M1A1s and the like. Now it's all 6mm range. Less recoil, lighter, better scores.

2000 yard matches, you need more than the 6mm range. Out to 1000, it's shown not to be much of a contest.

Anonymous said...

I'd like to add 9mm and .40 S&W to that list.

Anonymous said...

9 mm and .40 S&W aren't even on there? Not much of a list. Like 'em or not, they are incredibly popular rounds.

How incredibly "generous" (if not ignorant) of FG to examine the .40 in ten years, LOL.

To believe that you're going to actually use ALL of the 10s of thousands of rounds of various ammo types most of us have stockpiled in combat during the uprising we all seem to see on the horizon is a little bit (okay, a LOT) unrealistic.

Anonymous said...

7.5 x 55 Swiss uses standard .308 bullets.

7.62 x 54R is incredibly plentiful, as are the rifles that shoot it...and the rifles that shoot it are quite durable.

As others have noted, having enough of the oddball foreign stuff on hand is critical. In the case of the above 2, that's not too hard, even with the current large demand for ammo. The time to stock up is while you can, like right now. A little each week or month adds up nicely after a year or 2, with any ammo.