Friday, June 28, 2013


I hardly ever spend the money on first-run films. I may make an exception for this one.


Tasso said...

If the premise is that Northern Democrats were against the war because of Constitutional principals, then I think it hinges on thin historical evidence. Northern Democrats were anti-federalists, were virulently opposed to the Constitution and worked in every political and judicial opportunity to pull its teeth. Their legal and political arguments hinged on rhetorical devices which made the Constitution a dead letter, denying its every provision to slaves. (Go read Dred Scott if you want a taste.) And make no mistake, Northern Democrats were pro-slavery. That was the key moral compromise that held the Jacksonian coalition together in the Senate.

I'm sure this movie is going to be quite good, but it starts from an indefensible premise. The Northern Democrats of the Missouri Compromise and Dred Scott were not great defenders of the Constitution.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Tasso. Since I know very little about the politics of the time, it's always good to hear another viewpoint from someone who does. That doesn't mean I won't try to see the movie, but it does arm me with a little more knowledge to temper what I get from it. Until one is an expert in something, he can learn something from those that know more on the subject at hand than yourself.

Anonymous said...

This strikes me as one of the few movies that Liberals will hate.

I knew a woman once....liberal democrat, huge Barry supporter, you know the type.... said she hated war, hated the military, yet was completely fine with a "civil war" which destroyed half the country, and killed millions of people and left millions more homeless, all in the name of ending slavery (in her view anyway).

Of course, she refused to consider that every other Western nation got rid of slavery without having to fight a war to do it, and that slavery in the US would have died a natural death within 20 years.

Anonymous said...

Have to agree with Tasso. That is one of the flaws of the film. I watched it in its entirety after reading the post.

Another problem I see is the unrealistic (in my view) ending. I won't spoil it for others but that shit just doesn't happen in the real world.

Still today, there are many of our Southern brethren who hold bitter feelings about the "war of Northern aggression". That bitterness was understandably handed down from their kin.

I can tell you that, as a child, I even heard stories told by my Uncle (died at the age of 95 in 2005) who was a New Yorker that his Grandmother didn't have a kind word to say about Lincoln. War leaves bitter memories...civil war, I expect even more so.


Anonymous said...

This is available on line from Amazon for $3.99-7 day rental.

tom said...

Too broad of a brush, Tasso. Northern Copperhead Democrats in MY Family landed where they did in "Northern Midwest States" via PORT OF CHARLESTON, and lived in the Carolinas before midwest and plains, not NYC. I've read their writings to a great degree, and they aren't a bit how you describe how you imagine them to have been.

Neither the Northern or Southern Democratic Leadership were all of the same mind, even within a particular state.

FDR and LBJ had overlapping political careers in the "same party", but you'd be hard-pressed to get anybody to believe they were both cut from the same cloth. You have that same problem convincing me what you state, as it's generalizing in the worst way a very complex political situation.

The war was fought for many reasons. People voted for who they voted for for many reasons. Some were more influential reasons than others, but painting it in black and white doesn't suit the fact that the whole endeavor, pre-during-post, was colored in shades of grey.

tom said...

"War leaves bitter memories...civil war, I expect even more so."

Total war of annihilation MORE MORE SO, BTW. You burn down counties and relocated civillians to camps, as happened in MO. That reminded people that SYMPATHIZED with Union goals not to trust you.

And the biggest Liar of the all was Lincoln. You can not maintain a union, other than as to geographical borders, by force of arms and occupation. Lincoln maintained a "union" in North America like Stalin "maintained a 'union'" with Poland and Germany.

The physical damage and wholesale slaughter of even non-combatants, by Grant and Sherman, will NEVER be forgotten. Nor will the torching of farms, homes, cities, churches. Bonus for having general orders to round up Jews.

General Order No. 11 decreed as follows:

The Jews, as a class violating every regulation of trade established by the Treasury Department and also department orders, are hereby expelled from the Department [of the Tennessee] within twenty-four hours from the receipt of this order.

Post commanders will see to it that all of this class of people be furnished passes and required to leave, and any one returning after such notification will be arrested and held in confinement until an opportunity occurs of sending them out as prisoners, unless furnished with permit from headquarters.
No passes will be given these people to visit headquarters for the purpose of making personal application of trade permits.
--General Grant

Taken as a whole, there's a reason that many still think anybody that wore blue should have been summarily executed for war crimes.