Chris Cox: "I categorically deny everything that you wrote with regards to that. It's complete bullshit." WE STAND BY OUR STORY.
After days of seeking comment from NRA representatives on David Codrea's breaking story and my follow-up, I had given up getting any official reaction. However, yesterday afternoon on the way out of the NRA national meeting display floor on my way to the car, Dean Weingarten (who blogs at Gun Watch) and I ran into Chris Cox and his entourage.
I approached him, shook his hand, introduced myself, and asked him for comment on my story. He ceased smiling when he realized who I was, dropped my hand like a hot rock, flushed red in the face, and said: "I categorically deny everything that you wrote with regards to that. It's complete bullshit." I replied, "We stand by our story, and if you feel we have libeled you, you are welcome to sue me." He then turned and stalked off. He was extremely angry.
The whole thing happened totally unexpectedly, like a meeting engagement in deep jungle, and unfortunately as I leaped in and gave him no warning to begin filming, Dean had some trouble getting the camera into play. Thus we missed getting a video record of the preamble and then the camera cuts off just as I said "We stand by our story." However, the operative words of Mr. Cox were captured on this snippet below.
(Video courtesy of Dean Weingarten.)
Thus, we now have an official response from NRA. However, I repeat here what I told him then: WE STAND BY OUR STORY.
Although there was no need, I ran his reaction past some of the sources we used for the story. All of them who I was able to contact were solid in their conviction of the truth of their part of the story. In turn, I have absolute confidence in their veracity. I wouldn't have written the story if I didn't. Yet Chris Cox's categorical denial of "everything" that I wrote must be noted. It IS the official reaction we were seeking.
Of course David and I have heard such categorical denials and ad hominem attacks before to stories of ours, most notably in the wake of our first work on Fast and Furious. One friend commented to me, "Well, that tells us one thing. Whatever the deal was, it's blown up now. Cox wouldn't deny it otherwise."
We have been plain that there is much that is not yet known about the deal. Perhaps it came as a surprise to Cox personally. Perhaps Cox wasn't in the loop. It seems unlikely to me, but is within the realm of possibility. Of course, for a leader and public persona in a very responsible position such as Cox that would hardly help. If he knew and agreed to the deal, he's incompetent and stupid for having done it. If he didn't know, he's incompetent and ignorant about affairs in his own legislative shop.
We will continue to work to develop this breaking story and we invite other journalists to use their own sources to try to run down the whole truth on this. (And some of you will be amused to know that that includes Dave Workman, who I ran into working the SAF table just before the Cox encounter, shook his hand and made the same request of him. Like Fast and Furious, I told him, there's plenty of room in the pool on this one.)
In particular, I am interested to know who the GOP representatives were on this "deal with the Devil." We have some Democrat names from single sources already and these must be confirmed. We have some guesses about the GOP. We will keep digging. Cox may deny "everything" I wrote, but there are some things that are incontrovertible statements of fact:
The ATF HAS gotten its bureaucratic ass in the crack and can't get out of it without congressional help, for which they must have the cooperation of both the GOP and the NRA. Mossberg, the unwitting victim in all this, DID cease shipping parts to shotgun builders as early as the 26th of last month -- prior to the "deal." And most importantly, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF LAW-ABIDING OWNERS OF PISTOL GRIP SHOTGUNS WHO HAVE BEEN MADE INSTANT FELONS AND ARE IN POSSESSION OF WHAT THE ATF HAS RULED ARE "DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES," SUBJECTING THEM TO POSSIBLE ARREST AND PUNISHMENT TO THE TUNE OF UP TO TEN YEARS AND A QUARTER MILLION DOLLAR FINE -- ON EACH COUNT.
If there is no deal, even if our stories about the deal are completely wrong -- and they're not -- both these millions of firearm owners AND the ATF are left twisting in the wind. Congressional scrutiny of this scandal of the ATF's own making is surely going to come as even the Elmer Fudds begin to realize their legal exposure and demand it of their congresscritters. But don't expect a quick tactical retreat like the M855 debacle. The ATF is stuck between the law, their inconsistent rule making and the machine gun cases like Hollis working their way through the courts. We may in fact finally be able to get REAL ATF oversight hearings in both House and Senate over this. Who knows? Perhaps we can even get Ramsey A. Bear called as a witness.
One friend of mine with long experience on Capitol Hill estimates that there is an eighty percent chance at this point that ATF will be abolished over this, an eventuality that I am on record as opposing. If they aren't going to repeal the laws as written, then I prefer the devil I know (the ATF) rather than the bigger, more secretive and dangerous devil I don't know (the FBI or DHS) to enforce them. Time will tell.
Again, we stand by our sources and by our story. We will continue to develop it as new information comes in. Don't touch that dial. ;-)
I will have a longer post detailing my varied and wonderful experiences at the annual meeting not related to the story later today.
the greatest sin our nation must confront is lying. Assuming Cox is lying, then he goes there to campaign on a lie and lies to your face.
That is the fundamental sin of these guys.
God Bless you MV
Good work, Mike! We will stay tuned indeed.
All who even considered being a part of this deal must face the consequences of their attempted betrayal of not just America's gun owners, but the American people, and The Constitution of The United States.
No, I most definitely do not consider the above statement to be hyperbole.
We need to make what happened after the passage of the 1994 AWB look like a Sunday school picnic in comparison, so that no one, NO ONE, ever considers such a betrayal ever again. And that means we need names, Dutchman6!
WE NEED NAMES!
"... pour encourager les autres ..."
Politicians and their hanger-ons have to lie all the time, for you see, if they told a truth, now and then, they would confuse themselves; because they always assume that a politico is lying when he speaks.
I had a college professor once, early American literature; who explained the doctrine of predestination this way: That the individual who was bound for glory, no matter how vile, would at the end of mortality be dragged kicking and screaming, into Heaven!
You and David are doing a masterful job of dragging the NRA back into the strait and narrow way. Keep up the good work!
BTW, your report is posted on TGO.
III N TN
Shut the f__k up, Vanderboegh! You're not helping the cause of Gun Owners. I tend to trust Chris Cox more than your sources, and I don't even know who your sources are. I do believe Chris is better at using strategies that will help gun owners. He has proven that many times! By the way, WHO IS OR ARE YOUR SOURCES FOR THAT STORY?
P.S. I'm obviously reversing my earlier statement where I said I wouldn't be commenting any more. It is just very difficult to remain silent when you call Chris Cox a liar. As long as you continue to tear down The NRA, I shall continue to protest against you.
- Old Greybeard
Who is Chris Cox?
It's very hard for me not to call Old Greybeard a cocksucker, since he's obviously on his knees in front of Chris Cox.
OG would know a thing or two about not keeping his word, since he said he wasn't going to post here anymore. Too bad he couldn't keep his word.
Nothing succeeds like success and you Sir, have it! Excellent work Mike, finally we have an idea of what goes on in the sausage factory of the NRA. Let the NRA explain their mess away. I fear the worst is upon us. Back door deals like this will make felons out of every real American. The question is ,at what cost sir? Is such law needed?
Old Greybeard, compromise with evil is still evil. All the NRA knows how to do is slow down evil a little bit with compromise. The NRA compromises more than a weak willed mother with a bratty teenage duaghter. Folks like Mr. V. have shown how to stand up for gun rights. By showing just how much appetite the powers that be have for our liberty and property. Fortunetely, at the moment, that appetite is less than that required to kick off Civil War 2, TEOTWAWKI, or whatever the heck you want to call this fiasco if and when it goes violent.
Mike, I do believe the ATF is going to be dissolved - but not just over this. I believe it's duties are already being redistributed to that end (tobacco to FDA first step already taken) and that dissolving is in fact happening in part to the corner ATF has painted itself into. However, the very thing dissolving it saves face about is why I think the cases you talk about will nail the legislation rather than just ATF.
DISCOVERY is more dangerous to the controllers - obviously why they would rather see GCA and NFA dusted by even summary judgment rather than comply with discovery. But if they think they can just keep it all by folding ATF into FBI, the discovery factor only deepens and broadens. They won't risk that.
Instead - new legislation replacing GCA and NFA is the plan. That's the only way to kill the GCA NFA problem (that those laws simply cannot withstand even heller and mcdonald precedent alongside miller. There is simply too much risk in shattering due process incorporation structure - they will relent on the gun control before they risk losing economic control too....
So there is merit in chasing down the "deals" being made by the NRA in attempt to save the butter for it's toast but I caution thusly - that deal is really not on the legislative front as much as it is on the judicial front. For the deal made in HOW to dust GCA and NFA will determine what the actual replacement legislation will look like AND THAT will lead to the GOPe stooges behind it. My first inkling? Peter king there in New York and nark Kirk (yeah nark is on purpose) will be atop that list of traitors within the gop.
As for the cox denial - well, what's he going to do in either case? Admit treachery or idiocy? Only an honest person would would admit either or both and seek redemption. Those who seek power think that with enough power there's no need for redemption or honesty.
The NRA is fighting for its political life. It's controllers see the butter cow slipping away and with it their power base. Expect NRA "officials" to become increasingly beligerant. And remember, wounded and dying cornered animals can be most dangerous just prior to, well, their end. Watch closely for a false flag op meant to take you down with them.
And as much as I would love to see some individuals exposed for what they are - let's keep eyes on the real prize - destroying GCA and NFA. For when they are in shambles, states will scramble more than they are now to toss that state preemption hot potato in order to avoid the litigation.
Can us see president Cruz refusing to form a ATF ? I sure can.....and think about Palin turning away from the NRA.... We thinks HUGE things are indeed brewing on more than just the "deal" front.
Lol @ old greybeard.
Ya just can't face the reality that the NRA is actually a gun CONTROL organization, can you? U.S. just can't shake the FUDD factor can ya?
What's the GENESIS of "sporting purpose" homie? Oh yeah, the HUNTING canard! What entity touted that as a means of generating dues paying members? Oh yeah the NRA!!! Imagine that. Mag limits ya say? Got shotgun plugs?
Their "strategies" are based on how to KEEP CONTROL in gubmint hands graybeard, NOT based on how to wrestle away and DEFEAT that grip upon our rights. Think it through Beard! The NRA supports DUE PROCESS INCORPORATION and fought against dismantling that chicanery - SO GUBMINT CAN KEEP THE PREMISE OF ITS GUN CONTROL!! Due process of course being any fucking thing they say it is at any given moment... Permission slip structures - due process. May issue based on need - due process. Parks schools and all the other "prohibited places.... Due process. Forced unloading - due process. Banned guns and banned ammo - due fucking process! SEE IT MAN !! The NRA is the SUPPORTER of DUE PROCESS just like Bloomberg himself is - because THAT is the premise upon which gubmint imposes gun CONTROL!
You might want the NRA to be the shining defender and you might even want Cox to be your white horse riding knight. But it's time to get off your unicorn and bow before the alter of truth. The NRA just plainly isn't what you wish it was......and its own actions historically AND STATED FUCKING POSITIONS TODAY prove that to be true. So suck it up and admit one of two things -
1) you got snookered by the lies
2) you actually believe in gubmint authority over gun rights (so only the "correct" people have gun rights)
Note - the former is forgivable while the latter isn't.
I agree we need names but I also agree that anonymity is genuine. What's most important is the INFORMATION...who said it matters far less.
Consider this - sources name the names and only three of seven bad actors get nailed. Four remain and go right back to their con - but the leaker is identified as a result. Then the four get to continue and they really are in a smokey back room behind truly closed doors.
Nah - embarrassing them ALL with the information absent the names is much better strategy.
I will say this though - it's interesting watching David support anonymity now after his recent OPEN condemnation of those daring to participate anonymously....funny how that works.... But I digress. My bad sorry.
It's like this. If those within the NRA let a tiny few continue to operate the Negotiating Rights Away machine then ALL OF THEM own that reputation that the "deals" and "compromises" CREATE. IF those ATOP the organization won't out those engaging in this nefarious activity THEN they ALL go down with the ship. As they should. And guess what?! Same is true for dues paying MEMBERS!
Ask yourself this - what would lefty progs do if they didn't HAVE their deal making buddies to fool the Fudds? Where would the posers operate if the couldn't ACT like Fudds to artificially augment the Fudds real numbers? What if the NRA couldn't be USED to create this false narrative that there is a DEAL? Did YOU agree to a deal? Who placed the NRA in the position to speak FOR all rights exercises? Got usurpation?
The NAME to be concerned with is this one (the one RESPONSIBLE).
THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION.
I think most of us here are not interested in "using strategies that will help gun owners".
I think most of us here are interested in, NO MOTHERF---ING COMPROMISES of our unalienable right to keep and bear arms WITHOUT INFRINGEMENT.
Was I yelling??
Thank you for shining bright light to scatter the cockroaches. I'd rather hear the truth I don't like than have sunshine blown up my @$$.
"Well, that tells us one thing. Whatever the deal was, it's blown up now. Cox wouldn't deny it otherwise." "
Mike, I hope to Heaven you're right about that, but if so they'll be back at work looking to craft another swindle, er -- sorry -- agreement, before long.
And as for Mr. Graybeard -- I am almost certainly older than you, and my NRA membership goes back perhaps as long as yours. But I recall during the seventies when they were previously behaving more like a lobbying business and a cash cow to certain lawmakers than a protective force for the Second Amendment. It appears that it is time once again for an internal upheaval of members who are disgusted with certain shenanigans such as Mike and David have revealed. So, please, Graybeard, put a sock in it and keep an open mind.
Give up sources, really? What do you think this is, an HBO crime drama?
Wow...you got Old Greybeard fired up! Anybody that is trying to shut people up is not a friend of freedom. Me thinks he doth protest a bit too much. You can tell you are over the target when the flack is the heaviest. Keep up the good fight!!
Old Greybeard- You must be one gullible s.o.b. if you believe in the NRA or any of the $500.00 suits that work there and always need money.
Ask yourself, how many law abiding gun owners that the BATFE
has fucked with on nothing more than 'technicalities', do you see the NRA assisting in any way ?
They could do a lot of good with
all the bucks they take in, but they're doing it for themselves,
Betrayal like this is why I walked away halfway through a life membership on the installment plan in the NRA in the mid 90's and never looked back. They are politicians like the people they "do business" with...and they lie like dogs on a rug. They don't want the problem solved, because then they'd be out of a job. If they can compromise at a rate slow enough to keep them employed until retirement, they're good with that. Not exactly the folks you want in the trenches trying to get our Rights restored to pre-1934 levels where they should be, no matter how many usurpers and traitors say otherwise.
Would you care to provide some support for you assertions? For example, can you please cite Mr. Vanderboegh's past assertions that have been proven incorrect?
I can think of a few fairly significant ones that turned out to be remarkably accurate.
As I recall, Mr. Vanderboegh proved correct in his predictions about Obamacare being a disastrous con and boondoggle to be opposed by some controversial means, in his and Mr. Codrea's breaking of the Gunwalker scandal, and in his suspicions regarding the police snitches Jerad and Amanda Miller at the Bundy Ranch that was instrumental in seeing them turned away shortly before they went berserk, seemingly false-flag muppets gone off their leashes.
Also, you said:
I tend to trust Chris Cox more than your sources, and I don't even know who your sources are. I do believe Chris is better at using strategies that will help gun owners.
Should we take this to mean that you believe Mr. Cox didn't do it, or that he did do it, and we should be thankful because it was such a clever play?
Finally, regarding your urgent demand for sources, you seem to have missed Mr. Vanderboegh's explanation at some length in the article on which you are commenting that he does not expose sources who are putting themselves at risk and asking to remain anonymous. ...exactly as he did in the Gunwalker case. If you are refuting his explanation of or his prior success with his discretion regarding his sources, upon what is your argument resting, aside from the caps lock?
I look forward to further well-reasoned arguments in support of your perspective.
Statement Analysis is a funny thing. Extra words mean things. "Categorically denying" something is NOT the same as simply denying it.
I was a broadcast journalist my entire working life, and when someone used the phrase: "I categorically deny...", red flags went up and I knew the bastard was hiding something.
Methinks the Lady Cox doth protest too much...
I believe they are guilty and so is Cox. This year in Idaho, they tied up and killed our Constitutional Carry bill. Oh, their lobbyist, Dakota Moore categorically denies it, but they are the ones who helped kill CC in Idaho, and gave us some bs technical "fix" bill. The NRA is the enemy not a friend.
Post a Comment