Sunday, January 26, 2014

Holder position on pot and banks could end up entrapping gun owners

Yesterday, this column asked one of Denver’s major dispensaries if they provide any notice to their customers that purchases are viewed by ATF as disqualifiers from owning a gun (no reply has been received at this writing). Whether these businesses have a duty to inform the public, with attendant liability should they fail to do so, might be an interesting legal question asked by some who will be surprised to learn that their recognized right to keep and bear arms has gone up in smoke.


Anonymous said...

Those who are "buzzing" should probably not be "banging". Holder was probably giggling himself silly over the prospect of eliminating more new gun owners by standing down on pot prosecutions. "Ah got 'em now! Tee Hee Hee!"

Anonymous said...

I think, a lot of serious gun owners saw this one coming long ago. Anyone who has filled out a 4473 knows the question. It's kinda like a billboard next to the highway can't partake in illegal drugs and 'legally' purchase firearms. Do so at your own risk. And clearly, to most of us, the right to 'lawfully' acquire and possess firearms and revel in our Second Amendment rights trumps our inclination to get high and possibly forfeit our Second Amendment rights for the remainder of our life times.

Now, the dopers, could care less. Their only interest is getting high. They've already been criminals and felons. Their years acquiring illegal drugs from illegal sources gave them a handy network of contraband suppliers to work with. They'll also avail themselves to private FTF transfers --as should every freedom loving American.

Needless to say, when firearms possession is taken as lightly as pot possession in Chicago, it will be snowing in hell.

Until someone forces the issue, the pot salons aren't gonna say shit. You're an adult. There's no question on the form to purchase pot asking if you're a firearms owner, is there?

Oh wait. If you're acquiring pot for medical purposes, it would be a HIPPA violation to reveal your identity.

It's my understanding that as of right now, anyone can walk into a pot shop and purchase if they can provide ID that says they're of legal age? No one is recording how much pot you purchase, how frequently or what kind or it's potency. They're certainly not asking if you own firearms. Why would they even want the liability of warning you?!

But wait! I'd almost wager 22LR ammo that the NSA can match, once the banks are cleared to accept cash deposits from the salons and the salons are cleared for CC purchases, the pot purchase data base to gun possession --especially in states that are requiring firearms and magazine registration!

Ya, Barry & Eric are gonna take good care of their people on this one.

Anonymous said...

I get a kick out of people who paint with the broad brush of "dopers". Ironic isn't it? Those claiming. "Dopers" are the ones who drank the cool aid.

Here's a word for you -

So a "stoned" person then "forfeits" their right to keep and bear arms even in defense of their own life, huh? That IS what is being said and it is something akin to "guns kill people ".

Too much WATER will poison a persons mind, heck it will literally cause death! So those drinking water COULD present a danger and as such must then be banned from - check that- they must "forfeit" their INALIENABLE right.

It really is the same mentality.

News flash. Innocent until proven guilty!

Wake up folks. See through the emotion based kook aid drinkers reefer madness.

NoelArmourson said...

Anonymous #2 @5:56, FYI the Colorado pot shops are required to record the customer's name and ID and the quantity purchased, ostensibly to prevent the store from selling more than the legal maximum of of one ounce to any individual in one day. This data is not, however, shared between stores. I don't yet know how long this personally identifying customer record must be retained by the merchant.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous @ 9:23 Gets it!
Thank you.

It is stunning how so many folks in the gun culture are quick to throw "stoners" under the bus. Conversely, many in the legalize cannabis movement are likewise blind by their ignorance of guns.

Sadly, both sides of this argument want to see that issues related to guns and what you ingest are both related to the cause of liberty.

Anonymous said...

Remember, both parties GOAL is to divide people. They both work hard to keep gun backers and pot backers separated. United around the cause of Liberty, this becomes a powerful voting block that spans all the traditional dividing lines of age race gender and the new title of nobility called sexual orientation.

It's not pot they fear, it's seeing pot smokers no longer alynskied into obscurity they fear.

It's possible to disagree with a choice made - even proudly so- while retaining support for the ability to MAKE the choice. Gun owners follow this regularly in saying - if you don't like guns then don't own one, but leave me and my rights alone- I wish they would walk that walk instead of just talk that talk by listening to pot smokers when they say the exact same thing.

Short of the usurpation of the word marriage, that same thing even applies to queers. Nasty as it is, wrong as it is in my view, those people DO have their own pursuit of happiness just like I do. So while I disagree with they're choice made, I must respect THEIR liberty, their ability to make their own choice.

THAT is what once united this country- coming together around the ABILITY to make our own choices- and THAT is what made this nation strong. The more some impose their own choice upon others - via "democracy", the weaker we become because the more divided we become.

So folks, please stop taking the bait. Understand the difference between the right to speak and the act of imposition.

Liberals and conservatives are more alike than they care to admit. Both want to leave the realm of speech and jump to imposition while denying they are doing so. They just want to impose different things.

Imposition is the poison killing this country. It IS the oppression smothering liberty. So please stop taking the medias and the parties bait.

Anonymous said...

"The GCA made it unlawful for certain persons to receive firearms, and made it a felony for an FFL to transfer a firearm knowing, or having reasonable cause to believe, that the transferee is prohibited from receiving the firearm. Subsequent amendments made it unlawful for any person to knowingly transfer a firearm to a prohibited person, and made it unlawful for the following categories of prohibited persons to possess a firearm:

• Felons;
• Fugitives;
• Drug addicts or unlawful drug users;
• Persons committed to mental institutions or adjudicated as "mentally defective";
• Persons dishonorably discharged from the armed forces;
• Persons who have renounced their United States citizenship;
• Illegal or nonimmigrant aliens;
• Persons subject to certain domestic violence restraining orders; and
• Persons convicted of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence."

Note carefully the bullet item "Drug addicts or unlawful drug users"

Take a toke and you're a "prohibited person" under the provisions of GCA 68.

And when they mention "possession" they're not talking "ownership" although that would be bad enough. In this case "possession" has been interpreted as in pick one up off a table at a gun show and you're looking at 5 years as a guest of Fed Gov.

Anonymous said...

Glad to see posters here mentioning that illicit drug use should not be criminalized, nor should it preclude gun ownership.

The right to own one's body and what you put in it should be obvious, but a lot of misinformed "conservatives" have lapped up the government propaganda of "reefer madness" and not thought through the consequences.

The war on drugs has resulted in a steady degradation of the 4A, your right to privacy and property and has militarized our police.

If they can do that with illicit drugs, then they can do it with supplements, sodas, junk food, cigarettes and the rest. Think I'm joking? Then look up the legislation your betters wish to pass to make you get a prescription for a multivitamin, making 64 oz. big gulps illegal in certain municipalities, banning cigarette smoking when studies have not been able to link 2nd hand smoke to lung cancer, raids on whole milk producers, etc.

Wake the f up people!

Anonymous said...

Is it true the FEDs choose to "not prosecute at this time" because they can't seat jury , or because they are trying to drum up votes ?

Anonymous said...

I am having a hard time figuring out why I should give a shit what ATF bureaucrats think. Ooh, if I grovel enough will I be allowed to keep a pea-shooter? Screw that!

smitty said...

Well, divide and conquer continues to be a proven program, even in the face of absurdity.

I wonder how many gun enthusiasts that are critical of cannabis partakers smoking of buds, themselves imbibe Budweiser or other alcoholic beverages?

An honest evaluation should lead to the conclusion that the firearms and cannabis cultures have much in common.

Both groups are demonized and suffer under unjust laws.

The dirty Bill of Rights shredding procedures that have become the norm in the War on *some* drugs, once established by approval of our corrupt courts, soon begin to be used against members of the gun culture.

The dirty Bill of Rights shredding procedures that have become the norm in the War on the 2nd amendment, once established by approval of our corrupt courts, soon begin to be used against members of the cannabis culture.

So, police bashing in doors with flimsy or no warrants to bust cannabis users is OK, but just don't do it in regard to the silly firearms infractions?

What is the problem here?

What happened to the ability to disagree with other's right to live life peacefully as they see fit but to tolerate it in the name of Liberty?

Gun owners claim to understand and value the 2nd. What part of "...shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

Just as the 2nd is without a clause such as "...shall not be infringed, except for reasonable restrictions as determined by government", neither is there a clause such as "...shall not be infringed, except for those ingesting intoxicating plants, plant extracts, plant fermentations".

Worried about addicts?

It is not heroin or cocaine that makes one an addict, it is the need to escape from a harsh reality. There are more television addicts, more baseball and football addicts, more movie addicts, and certainly more alcohol addicts in this country than there are narcotics addicts.
-Shirley Chisholm

Gun owners that allow divide and conquer to succeed are shooting themselves in the foot...or head.

I am pleased to see comments proving that some "get it".

Especially regarding the power of a coalition of those with related Liberty interests.

Gun owners and the cannabis community should both see fit to recognize their common well as their common enemy-thoroughly corrupt totalitarian government.

I would add those abused by the corrupt judicial system and those wrongfully warehoused in the Prison Industrial Complex as well as those abused by the civil courts.

Now that's the sort of numbers that would have to be reckoned with.

Wake up people-stop the suicidal stupidity of intolerance of peaceful exercise of Liberty.

Remember...ALL gun laws are or will lead to an infringement of Liberty.

That's why the 2nd says what it means and means what it says, contrary rulings by corrupt courts notwithstanding.