Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Praxis: 1911 versus Glock (Uh oh, here we go again.)

"The Real Truth About 1911s."
For the record, I'm a 1911 man. I have always been a 1911 man and have willed my customized 1911 Norinco clone "Shanghai Surprise" (I use 8 round magazines) to my son. It has never given me a stutter. I distrust and, yes, dislike Glocks. Sorry, that's the way it is.


The Trainer said...

Why even bring this up? Those who like Glocks like Glocks. Those who like 1911's like 1911's.

Wouldn't a more productive article be on the importance of and encouraging dry fire drills, 4 count draws, effective concealment, etc along with PT to go along with it for tactics to use with whatever choice of pistol the citizen has made?

There's enough problems generated by ego-centric bickering in 'the community' already without stirring the 'See? My pistol is better than your pistol' pot.

Oh...and I have and use both pistols mentioned; each has their strengths and weaknesses. The trick is to captialize on the former and mitigate the latter.

Just sayin'...

Roger said...

The myth that a Block will always work is readily refuted. I work part time at a large municipal range. Glocks can and do malfunction. Usually due to lousy ammo or limp wristing, occasionally due to ill advised modifications.
The same things that make every other semi auto pistol malfunction.
Just for the record, I regularly carry a 1911 and it has in the 10 years since new, never failed, never jammed - - - no problems.

Anonymous said...

Nothing on earth sucks more than the "Plastic fantastic", "I just shot myself" gun. Like the AR I wouldn't carry one If you gave it to me. I'll stick with my 40 year friend Mr. 1911a1 (all-GI) and my other friend Mr. Garand.

Anonymous said...

I would not dream of telling another shooter what to carry.

My wife test fired several pistols at the local indoor range that offers hourly rentals before she concluded that she hated anything in .45 ACP. In comparing the Beretta 92F(S) to the Glock she noted that the composite frame Glock felt too top heavy in comparison to the 92. She now has a 92F that she can operate, hit what she means to hit and has the confidence in it and her skills with it that are so essential.

But on the subject of 1911's, I have a Colt MK IV Series 70 that I bought new more than 40 years ago. I have no idea how many rounds I have put through it but at one point in our time together I was going through 100 rounds per week in hour long practice sessions. I have primarily fed it 230 grain hardball and 200 grain SWC cast from an RCBS mould. At times during that 40 year span, due to having small children in the house, my maintenance regimen could only be described as "benign neglect": take it out of the drawer, check for spiders in the bore, put 50 rounds downrange, put it back in the drawer. Cleaning? Oiling? Yeah, right! Yet my Colt has always shrugged it off.

On the subject of reliability I can only relate the following. I find myself in a creepy dark place with footsteps behind me. Whenever I stop to listen, the footsteps stop as well. Eventually my shadow decides it's time to make a move and I hear the footsteps break into a run. I break into a cold sweat as I pull my Colt, pivot, take a sight picture and squeeze. The Colt goes "click". At that point I realize I'm having a nightmare, because in real life my Colt has never misfired, failed to feed, or failed to eject. So I roll over and go back to sleep.

I have heard that in later years Colt had quality control problems that have resulted in some people buying 1911's that are not as reliable as mine. But my experience, the 1911 Jam o' Matic, that was described in the article is a myth.

Anonymous said...

M14 with a 1911 sidearm? Damn, you are old-school. Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?

AJ said...

I've had extensive experience with a properly tuned Colt 1991A1 in stainless. It's probably the best and most reliable auto I've used. Any ammo, any mag, dirty, clean, lubed, dry. It just WORKS. I think I'm gonna go talk the guy who owns it into selling it to me.

Anonymous said...

Meh...different experiences mold perceptions.

I grew up on the 1911...and they pretty regularly jammed. Didn't matter if it was a custom 1911 or a Colt or a cheap clone.

I still find die hard 1911 guys that say they've never had a jam out of their guns....and then we go to the range. Generally speaking, it seems most 1911 guys don't put that many rounds through the gun, so if it goes 50 rounds with no failures, they deem it good to go. However, if we go to 100 rounds, in every instance so far, they encounter a stove pipe or similar.

I hear repeated stories that there are 1911s out there that run 100%...if you spend the big money on a high end 1911, supposedly you get a much more reliable gun. Cheaper 1911s with loose tolerances also are said to be pretty reliable.

In the end, it really doesn't matter as long as it's reliable. Automatic handgun ammunition is a notoriously bad man stopper regardless of caliber and shot placement is far more critical....that being said, the very first priority of a defensive pistol should be that it goes bang every time with any ammo you use.

If you haven't put 1K rounds through your carry gun without any failures, I wouldn't trust it.

After that...carry whatever you like as long as it's reliable and you can put rounds on target AT SPEED, the rest is just personal preference.

Allen said...

he had me up until he said "pat rogers". that guy is in the "garand/m14 safety is inherently dangerous, and the AR platform is the end-all-be-all rifle" crowd. which is all I need to know about him.

Taz said...

Hey Mike! I am laughing out loud.

I'm a Sig bigot. Two issues of the same model P229. Parts! 40 S&W. Fuck all y'all 1911 or Glock wonks who think that they are the only two decent service pistol platforms.

And not one person has said anything about maintenance and lubrication.

Navy Seals can carry any platform they wish and many chose Sig Sauer. They have forgotten more about CQB than I will ever experience or even learn intellectually. (I have learned to ot be afraid to admit that I am not a killer.)

Congrats Mike on stirring the poop. It is good blog journalism to create a controversy where there is none. Good for readership. It generates thought. Sincerely. I admire that you ALWAYS can be counted on to post something worth reading and commenting upon.

Whatever you carry...practice shooting it and take care of it. Regularly.

It may save a life.

Anonymous said...

To each his own. I'm not brand-myopic.

I prefer Glocks myself, but I'm a young guy (mid-20s), and the 1911 was never a part of the "background", so-to-speak, growing up, but Glocks were.

I'll admit that Glock have made some pretty silly decisions in the past. For example: The whole .45 G.A.P. (Glock 37, 38, and 39) was like the kids on the "short bus" in school: Everyone knows they're there, but no one really wanted them around...

So Glock isn't the "Perfection" that it's cracked up to be.

Also, like any mechanical device, it can break. Can a Glock take a beating? Yes. But so can a Sig, so can a Ruger, so can a Kimber, every gun has its own tolerance limits, and if you pass them, your gun will stop working.

I gotta be honest though, I'm not too fond of carrying "Condition 1" with a 1911, just my own personal, young-guy preference, that's all.

If a 1911 works for you, and puts a collectivist bad gun down, great! If you use a Glock to put down a collectivist bad guy, same result, great job!! Or if you use a Sig to put down a collectivist bad guy, awesome as well! If you use an AR-15, or an AK variant, or a shotgun, as long as the bad guy goes down, then you used the right gun for the job! I really don't care how you do it, just do it right.

It also pretty depends on the shooter. A crappy gun in the hands of a good shooter, will probably perform better than an excellent, brand new, off-the-assembly-line gun in the hands of an inexperienced, first-time shooter.

RVN11B said...

Started on the 1911 back in 1964.
Between then and now I have used and abused several types of hand guns and developed preferences on the different makes and models. This includes both semi- autos and revolvers.

Right now I have several in both styles but habitually carry the 1911.

I am satisfied with my choices.