Discernment, or lack thereof. I've been asked to explain the post below.
The Bundys have embraced to their bosom an asp who has been, and continues to be, a provocateur who has done everything he can to disupt the Oath Keeper's support operation. He came into camp early on, I was told, without ID, without a DD-214, claiming to have been a Ranger. However, no one I can find in the current Ranger veteran establishment knows who this guy is, recognizes his name, etc. I observed him up close for several days and I concluded that he is, at least, a sociopath, saying different things to different folks based upon whether they can assist him, not the mission.
He has, consistently, tried to undermine, with the Bundys and others, the Oath Keepers' leadership including a failed coup attempt to replace Jerry as ground force commander. I told Ryan Bundy that this piece of work did not have the Bundys' welfare at heart, only his own. I urged them to vett this moke in the interest of their own safety. The Bundys have kept him hanging around. I am not an Oath Keeper, but I am no patsy either. I put my own reputation on the line when I urged folks to ssend supplies. I was told in a phone call last night that the Oath Keepers continue to refine and improve their logistical support, despite continued attempts by this snake to hijack supplies and have them delivered straight into his control, not Oath Keepers.
At the time of the attempted coup, I suggested to the Oath Keepers that if this POS was successful in displacing Jerry, that they secure and remove their supplies to somewhere off site and deliver them only on an as-needed basis when they could guarantee that they would go to the security force. I told them at the time, "Let this (POS) supply himself and his faction out of his zipper because he ain't got dick." I told Ryan Bundy the same thing in the phione conversation.
The Oath Keepers have been trying, in this almost impossible situation, to continue to protect the Bundys and support the operation without being disrupted and victimized by this sociopath. Part of the problem is that the OK's are trying something new for them and they have been entirely too trusting about creatures such as this who have wormed their way into the Bundys' affections. They are now learning the hard way to be less trusting and more demanding -- something that simple fiduciary responsibility to their volunteers and supporters demands. It IS their reputation on the line as well and it would be a win-win for the Feds to diminish the Bundy defense force while at the same time discrediting the Oath Keepers. I would suggest to my readers who wish to volunteer and support the Bundy defense that they contact me first and I will give them the contact information for those folks who can be trusted not to abuse their good intentions. Do NOT take for granted what you are told by just anyone working a checkpoint at the Bundy Ranch. A pretty sorry situation, but that's the truth. And I will always tell you the truth as I understand it.
This POS could not have disrupted the Bundy defense operation more effectively if he had been paid by the Feds to do it -- which wouldn't surprise me if he was. But then how can we know when he doesn't present proof of who he really is?
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a dog, you have a problem.
Again, well done and thank you.
Isn't this really why organized militias always seem to fall apart? Who is going to be leader and why? Just because someone starts an organization, does this mean they should also lead it? Who follows who? I think this is what the govt psyop types are after. To diminish moral and cause division.
Maybe small organized 5 man fire teams might work better.
That roster I linked last night shows a small contingent from his part of Montana, seeming with the Lt as their leader. Switchboard.com shows two addresses in Anaconda for a gentleman with that name. If he's an Agent Provocateur and his militia unit is for real, he's been at it for a long time.
Another interpretation might be that he leads a small Montana militia squad and his men are more important to him than those not in his squad. It's also possible he likes the limelight too much.
Here's a link to this slither's "interview." Sounds like he's the product of gobermant edgeycation.
"Restorance" "I don't want to make any Premonitions."
Hmmmm, His rank in the Montana Mountain Rangers is probably a Major......Major Wanabe.
That's a mighty big desert. Pretty easy to get lost in. Especially if you accidentally get into the weapons ranges on the west side of 15. We used to get one or two a year get on the ranges at the stumps and someone would always seem to blow themselves up. Yep, the desert can be a dangerous place. Not to mention all of the toxic critters.
This is right out of Sun Tzu, these actions you report on.
It is possible that they subject is as you state a sociopath who is seizing the opportunity for his own enrichment or emotional need.
He may very well be some other breed of cat entirely.
Given the relatively narrow scope of the area, it would be interesting to speculate on a link diagram with some traffic analysis for this character.
Unfortunately, that takes away from other tasks at hand. To quote the old radio show, "who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of man?".
Identify yourself other then a user name, Identify the person specifically by name and call sign.
This is the kind of stuff that causes dissent and stops good people from helping due to confusion.
I find this irresponsible, and would like you to qualify your statements.
I appreciate your responding to my request for details. So, let's take it a little further.
What, or who, put Jerry DeLemus in as "ground force commander"?
Payne never attempted to take control of the forces, his purpose was to provide a Personal Security Detail PSD) for the protection of the Bundys. To do so, he needed to detach militia for that duty, though Jerry felt that he should control the PSD. The liaison position that Payne holds is a legal necessity. Quite simply, understand that the "law of agency" would make Bundy personally responsible, as principal, for any illegal action by an agent (militia member). This would create legal risk for Bundy and any AP could create the legal circumstance for a warrant for Bundy's arrest. At present , there is no legal reason for BLM, or any other alphabet, to enter his property. This separates this event from Ruby Ridge and Waco by a very wide legal gap. Bundy, however, anticipates that they will try to find a reason to get an arrest warrant. He has agreed that if the service of the warrant is peaceful, he will submit. If it is gang rape (SWAT style), he will resist. In the former, the militia would stand down In the latter, well, we have learned from the past. If the former, the government would all but admit that their tactic at Waco was unconscionable and resulted in those deaths. So, is this perceived as "undermining?
This is addressed in my article, The Bundy Affair - Is Anybody in Charge Here? (http://outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=823)
Payne had held things together through that first week, until after the Unrustling of the cattle, Jerry came on the scene a day late and a dollar short. A group of militia from Phoenix arrived, met with Jerry and turned around, back to Phoenix, rather than put up with his "shit". So, you suggest a coup. Now, if I understand coup, it is replacing that which was. If Ryan were there, and Jerry arrived after the big event, it would appear that the coup would be Jerry displacing Payne. Am I misunderstanding something?
If the Oathkeepers are "protecting Bundy", was their usurpation of that which has existed another coup? Or, just a an effort to assert authority over the Bundys?
The Oathkeepers "are trying something new", which is not identified in their purpose and, at best, changes their direction by participation in armed resistance against government authority. And, the "creature" who had wormed his way into the Bundy's affection", though he did so before the Oathkeepers arrived? Now, just who is doing the worming, as opposed to being there when the need existed?
I'll stop at this point, as I am sure that I have burdened you with a consumption of your time to provide a response. Though I do trust that your integrity warrants a response, and do look forward to it.
For the other readers, here is some food for thought: The Bundy Affair - Oathkeepers vs. Militia (http://outpost-of-freedom.com/blog/?p=826)
Post this POS's name here. I have a number of buddies in the Ranger camp and Army SF and a few more who can check him out.
So why haven't the others run him off of the place before now? If I suspected a government plant, he would leave with compelling reasons NOT to return. Nobody likes a weasel around.
I think we have a montgomery vs patton fight going on, just on a smaller scale.
each side thinks they're more important, and the big boss refuses to actually lead and make them work together.
Who gives a fuck.
Always been urging dudes to ask for a DD-214. I got one. It will tell you everything about my military stint. Anybody doing tactical training or something of more importance should have one and be willing to submit it for scrutiny.
In addition to that, questions regarding duty locations, unit, and dates of assignment are important questions. All soldiers can tell you when and where they were.
First of all, if you have ever said the Pledge -and meant it, then you DO have an OATH TO KEEP.
Second, gubmint already has it's media lapdogs trying hard to discredit the Bundys, with that PUNK bill oreilly taking the lead. It should be just as obvious to all that infiltrators have been sent in as well. I will say this about the Bundys keeping this cat around....with Mikes council providing context.
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
Mike this is greywolf...from AWRM...My group intend to come to Bundy's aid, But have been informed that the Militia's there could have been infiltrated..Post some up to date info on the situation or contact me...Thanks brother...
D 057 BTN 47 FF
We live in troubled times. We must be cautious.
When will people learn to never trust anyone except the LORD? Always verify - never trust.
The kicker about trusting the LORD is that you have to know it is the LORD (and not Satan) that you are trusting.
As for man, never trust.
If you can get the guy's name (preferably full name), I'd like to submit a request to NPRC to see if the dude is the real deal. If he's stolen valor, be glad to turn it over to This Ain't Hell.
Who is this about?
Mr. and Mrs. Cliven Bundy and his sons and daughters are in charge. Their ranch, their fight. It is up to them to determine who,what and where takes place up there. I am sure there are quite a few extra large egos running around up there with no clear chain of command. The Bundy family is at risk from outside and within, it will be up to them to make decisions on who is in charge of ranch security, period.
It's about Lt. Ryan Payne, Commander West Mountain Rangers 41st Mountain Field Force, Anaconda, Montana.
"Infiltrate to incite and indict" has been a favorite tactic of "Law Enforcement" in this country for quite some time now. I give you "Hutaree Militia" and "Four Grandpas in a Waffle House" as just two examples. I expect your readers can provide MANY more.
About the "legal" argument and "warrant" scenario...
This ain't Pakistan homeboy, where Freemen accept the idea that YOU are guilty for what I do. Apparently, you do not understand what this is REALLY all about! It's actually about your "legal" garbage. Hell no it ain't in keeping with our Constitution to hold one man accountable for the actions of another. See that yet! It's no more appropriate than rustling cattle - see the pattern?
Sir, this is about standing up to government largess and over stepping not bowing to it according to its arbitrary and capricious "legal system". Legalities that present an affront to our Constitution, on their face and in practice, are simply null and void - remember now, just governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. This is about overtly denying consent to your "legalities".
It is unsurprising that those attempting to convince others to bow to "legalities" are being seen as less than legit.
Oh and as for the issuing of a warrant and the desire to put that in play, in case you missed it, your "legal system" just fabricated the idiocy that "an anonymous tip" is grounds for a terry stop even when "officers" witnessed NOTHING and all they have is their "anonymous tips". Do you think for a MILLISECOND that if the gubmint masters truly wanted to snatch Bundy up they wouldn't have already done do.
I suggest you step back and take another look at what is actually happening here and WHY. This ain't about cattle rustling or grazing fees or even "federal land" within a state - this is about out of boundary government making up rules as it goes along not operating within Constitutional limitations. The rest is symptoms of the underlying problem. By presenting "legalities" you demonstrate which side you are working for - whether you realize it or whether you are just another useful idiot.
You see, that YOU are on this site playing your game, we all that Mike actually addressed another - directly - and the one addressed hasn't stepped forward to answer..... You are doing so "instead". How "convenient". Notice how when you checked Mike, he answered straight forward? That's what HONORABLE men do. Tell that to your buddy, the one yer trying to run interference for. Oh and know this - your actions have only served to show me that Mike is right in target.....I am left to wonder if you are capable of understanding why that is.
Mission accomplished. He's creating chaos and dissention. Either remove the scumbag with strict suggestions to not return and get on with the mission.
What Gary Hunt said.
If I am going to put my life up as stakes I'd like real leaders (proven military leadership in the real world.)
I can't be sure, but "Gary Hunt" & "Jennifer Drury" surely stink of trolls & sock puppets. I really think your time can be better spent than by responding to such.
Militias need to open up doctrine on COUNTERINTELLIGENCE. Americans used to be good at it: but we suck at it now. Militias need to exceed in this area if they are to survive (said the former CI specialist).
Our group has been looking at sending people but I am reluctant to send people into this kind of cluster fuck. There needs to be clear leadership there is no room for asshattary here, there is too much st stake and too much potential for thid to turn into a massacre or a shit storm.
I don't know enough about this particular situation to have an opinion, but I do know this :
This whole deal needs to be seen as regular folks protecting a regular guy.
For that reason, the Bundy supporters shouldn't be wearing full camo warfighting gear, as this only fuels the "Psycho militia itching to pull the trigger" stereotype.
All it takes is one well-circulated picture of some camo dude and people will think that they're all like that.
It's not us that the Bundy supporters need to convince, it's all the people who are currently dot gov supporters.
Just like the long ago phrase ...Hearts and minds.
How to deal with provocateurs:
There is something definitely fishy going on out there.
My gear is packed and I was ready to go rotate in for 2+ weeks.
But until this gets 'unclustered', I'm in wait mode.
I'll take Mike's word on things anyday. I'm not a daily follower of the SSI, but have seen enough to know when a man is honest and has integrity.
[i]Hill, Bill E. [/i]
He is a fraud.
Take a good picture of the POS and we'll figure out who he is in no time flat. Probably a FED! COINTELPRO!
>>It's about Lt. Ryan Payne
Has anyone vetted this character?
He reminds me of several bolos I knew in the army.
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