Friday, February 15, 2013

Why should gun rights advocates in Illinois support ANY concealed carry bill?

A "right" contingent on the government's permission is no right at all, and Illinoisans have no reason to be willing to ask for that permission.


Ashrak said...

Thanks for writing this superman and thanks Mike for posting it also. The NRA and other supposed "leaders" are trying to talk people into supporting the garbage 997 and telling folks not to talk about how much garbage is within it. Her I wonder why?

If the NRA and other groups had gotten their way last year with 148, we would not have gotten the decision out if the 7th that we have now. The NRAand other supposed leadership in Illinois seems bent on "foisting" the most restrictions upon the people of this state as possible.

Are they trying to keep their bread buttered or what?? It certainly appears that way. Are they so vested in legislation passing that they have lost sight of the real prize? Or could it be that those claiming to have "our" best interest at heart really have their own instead?

For all the suffering we have endured here it is proper for us to jump right to Constitutional carry from the total ban.

Illinoisans should not be supporting ANY legislation pertaining to guns and gun rights until at least the Fourth of July. Lets see them try to put the constitutional carry cat back in the bag after it gets out!

Thanks again for breaking the veil of silence imposed here by the "leadership". True patriots you are!

Anonymous said...

The NRA values preemption above all else and is willing to surrender other freedoms in order to get it. They have no problem with the licensing system because those who have the permit can carry virtually anywhere in the state. Of course, the mandatory training requirement was included so the NRA could profit from its own bill (no one says the NRA doesn't look out for its members, certified trainers in this case).

What about the millions of citizens who are unemployed, disabled, college students, single parents, and minimum wage earners who can't afford the training? The NRA is willing to deny them their 2A rights so permit carriers in Chicago an exercise their 2A right (thanks to preemption).

I say they are going about it all wrong. If IL were to jump from no carry to Constitution Carry then everyone who wanted to carry could do so regardless of their social or economic status. We know Chicago would pass ordinances prohibiting firearm carry, but this would be challenged in court and preemption would eventually be gained. Meanwhile, Chicago people would realize elections have consequences and they would start kicking anti-gun politicians out of office. If they don't care enough about gun rights to do this then let them live with their political decisions while non-Chicago residents enjoy Constitution Carry.

It's really pretty simple, but the NRA wants to generate tons of new business for NRA-certified trainers so they want the training to be mandatory. The NRA also wants to ensure they have plenty of work to do in IL so they write a bill which surrenders too much up front. That way they can spend years trying to regain the freedoms they willingly surrendered in this bill.

The NRA/ISRA/IC are every bit a political machine practicing the same backscratching tactics we loathe to see in our Chicago lawmakers.

In reality, this bill (HB0997) is a gun-control bill masquerading as a gun-rights bill. How pathetic is it when the NRA writes a bill even a rabid anti-gunner like Gov. Quinn could be happy signing?

Anonymous said...

“In light of events in recent months in Illinois and in other parts of the country, it’s appropriate and necessary that we give a full vetting to proposed state legislation on this matter,” Madigan said.

That's fucking rich.

Ashrak said...

First, I submit that enshrinement within the federal constitution of the right to keep and bear arms IS preemption. It preempts ALL governments ability to infringe and abridge.

Second, the NRA is afraid of the court path being successful. It jumps on the bandwagon when others manage to plow through the NRAs distortions to save face.
With cheaper than dirt offering that loot to SAF, it appears to me that more are figuring out what's going on.

Madigans comment is a hint. Democrats are gonna try to bait republicans into passing this abortion if a bill.

That cartoon I made a while back is more vindicated as every day goes by.

I request my fellow countrymen come to our aid here in Illinois. Doing so defending your own right. If this abortion of rights passes here then everything from fingerprinting to poll taxation to paying the NRA too to being forced to give all medical records to state police will be cemented here and create precedent for where you live too.

The IGOLD begging for permission slip crowd has to be countered with a constitutional carry supporters attendance. Please American patriots, descend on Illinois March 6 and help defend the Second Amendment from the rapacious NRA initiated attack on the right of the people. Please.

Anonymous said...

I've been trying to contact you Ashrak, email me. You know who it is.

If I wasn't so stubborn I'd almost have to feel sorry for the NRA/ISRA/IC folks who are promoting this bill (HB0997). Keep in mind IL has been rights-denied for 45 years. Prisoners who have been illegally detained for years and suddenly find the cell doors thrown open will not immediately rush outside to enjoy their regained freedom. They are cautious, almost disbelieving. After a while they will test the boundaries by walking to other cells and starting some small talk, but only as a group will they consider going outside. Even then they huddle in the courtyard and enjoy the warmth of the sunlight. It never crosses their mind they can freely exit the compound and go wherever they wish!!

The act of incorporating the 2A means IL citizens can no longer be denied the right to keep and bear arms. That is like the cell doors being thrown open. However, just like a prisoner, gun-rights leaders said, "Oh, that only applies to guns in the home." A couple of lawsuits (and years) later the courts confirm it really does apply to carry too! Well, duh, we've been saying that all along and they became angry with us for being disagreeable.

Yet, they still don't believe they are really free. Instead of accepting it they propose new regulations which once again hinder it. They do not know the fullness of freedom and cannot comprehend it. Perhaps they can only handle the fullness of that freedom if it is dispensed to them in small quantities? Remember, they had limitations all their life, that is their "normal", and something doesn't feel right in the absence of restrictions.

It could be easy to sympathize with such people, but don't let them get what they want simply because they have "freedom issues". Sadly, the NRA and many IL citizens cannot get out of their pre-incorporation mindset during which permits were a valid option for states to employ. Having an incorporated 2A negates the validity of a permit, for states can no longer demand citizens qualify for permission slips prior to exercising a right. If the NRA and others TRULY accepted the incorporated 2A then they would not be demanding permits, but that is all they know how to do. They can't seem to change their mindset.

It's a sad situation, but, again, I'm stubborn and don't give them much slack. Either they do it right or I will oppose their efforts.

I can understand why they need a bill, for there are some aspects of IL law which need tweaking to accommodate public carriers of firearms. If they want a bill to fix those things then have at it, but I will oppose the entire bill if they are going to toss in permits, fees, fingerprints, training, and other nonsense.

To this they will respond by saying, "...But this is Illinois and that is how things must work." Wrong, this is simply their pre-incorporation mindset talking rubbish. It is this mindset which actually divides IL gunowners rather than unites them behind a single cause and purpose.

Ashrak said...

Some really think that Illinois has to go through some bit by bit progression of baby steps like other states did. Supposed leaders expose themselves as sheepish followers hence. Right after Heller, I recall arguing that it was clear the decision was a game changer for CARRY and "leadership" told me how wrong I was....

I have watched all the new faces enter the fight here and while I'm happy more people are waking up I'm also disappointed at seeing them conned into thinking they must beg for permission slips instead of being encouraged to "stand and fight".

We see the ISRA leader tag Chicago based idiocy and that's great to a degree. But it's got it's own level of idiocy too. To tag a misunderstanding of constitutionality while supporting fingerprinting, additional permission slips aside from FIOD cards, a signing away of fourth and fifth amendment rights and the poll taxes that accompany these infringements demonstrate extreme hypocrisy from Richard Pearson.

"What on earth would possess McCarthy to assert that constitutional rights should be meted out based on public opinion polls?" Said Pearson. Yeah, what on earth possesses Pearson to assert that Constitutional rights be meted out with government issued permission slips that depend upon trading other rights away, paying monies to government and being fingerprinted like common criminals??

Shame on him. Shame on the ISRA. Shame on the NRA, and shame on ILLINOIS CARRY, too. They are about to destroy the victories so many have fought for, ones they claim to have been fighting for. They should have listened and took note of how Wisconsin progressed but alas they are committed to imposing plenty of measures that secure their own fundraising futures. Disgusting it is.

Add a 69 and switch it to yahoo friend. I lost access to my old email. If nothing else ill see ya tomorrow at Madigans dog and pony show, a possible rally on 223 or IGOLD.

ID bet that if those folks lose as they thankfully did the 148 debacle they will claim some super secret drink your ovalteen strategy of intended loss. They still deserve shame even then because that would mean they are untrustworthy and dishonest. There is no reason to be dishonest- we have truth and facts on our side. The honorable would hold both high and be proud of doing so. Besides, they are aloof to think they are somehow empowered to trade away my rights - especially if they think they can do so without voiced opposition that isn't afraid of their bullying tactics.