My thanks to thedweeze for pointing out the Prag circle jerk over at Caleb's GunNuts site. The timing on this is strange because we haven't been talking about BW/Xe for some time here on Sipsey Street. So what prompted Caleb, Snowflake and the gang to attack Threepers for our traditional suspicion of mercenaries? Somebody in North Carolina must have told them if they want more free range time, they'll have to fondle mercenary private parts in public. And THAT is right up Prag alley.
Here's the opening chatter. You may go to the site for the full treatment.
Riddle me this, Batman
Posted on September 5, 2009 by Caleb
Why do Threepers hate Blackwater/Xe? I don’t get it. When Bush was Pres, the 9/11 Truthers said that he (Bush) would hire Blackwater to put them in FEMA concentration camps. Now the Threepers/Wookie-Suiters think that Obama is going to hire Blackwater/Xe to take their guns and put them in FEMA concentration camps.
I just don’t get it.
This is my reply.
Vanderboegh, on September 7th, 2009 at 21:22 Said:
Mercenaries are mercenaries. And for every gun for hire who might, just might, remember his oath and quit instead of follow illegal orders, there are two or three foreign employees of Xe who don’t give a shit, never took an oath and just want a paycheck. Mercenaries have historically been used by governments to carry out missions they couldn’t get their own troops to do. Mercs will always follow the money. Period. History demonstrates nothing else, with few exceptions. Why don’t you just channel a Founder, and ask him what he thinks of mercs? Only you’ll have to use the term Hessians. Sheesh, what a bunch of historical amnesiacs. I guess its easy to be bought with a little free range time. What whores.
Riddle me this: why is Xe carrying out domestic surveillance right now? Who do you think they’re selling that to? Get a clue.
What's the essential difference between someone in the United State Army and a mercenary?
The difference for me, as retired Infantry, is that I would attempt to reason with someone in the Army. Mercs will be treated the same as foreign invaders, KOS.
Geoff, you're wrong about at least two things.
Number one, I won't be the only one to read your last comment bcause I deleted it before I read it.
Number two, I'm not a Catholic like my good buddy Bob Wright, I'm a fightin' Baptist.
And yeah, I'll answer to my Lord, but piss on you anyway.
There's an old Country & Western song that starts out:
"Jesus may love you, but I don't"
As for Caleb, I am also at a loss. Aside from Sebastian occaisionally running out of blog material, everyone else has decided to ignore the other side for the most part. I mean, there's not a whole lot more to say. When something comes down the pike, folks will either react or they won't. Just that simple.
The serviceman takes an oath to the Constitution
If this were all that mattered, the Oath Keepers movement would be redundant. It matters precisely because the oath doesn't mean a whit to plenty of people in uniform, at least not in any way that actually serves the true meaning of the constitution; they're content to follow whatever orders they're given. I mean, if they were unconstitutional orders, they wouldn't have given them, right? It's a losing argument.
When I first got involved with gun bloggers last year I came across Twinkletoes' (aka Snowflake)blog and this one. At first blush I was of the mindset that the "prag" way seemed reasonable and the threeper doctrine was way out there.
It was in short order that I came to realize that the prags are merely children with toys and a hobby. They're happy if their masters give them permission to play with their toys and while if they're denied said permission they'll kick up some dirt, make bad faces, cry and whine a bit.
Threepers don't ask permission to exercise their rights, God given or otherwise. They say, "here's the line in the sand. You cross it, there will be consequences". Our rights are not determined by governmental authority whim.
Prags believe if they're nice enough, subservient enough, complacent enough, quiet enough that they might, just might get to keep their toys to play with another day.
"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles."
Those that wish to disarm do not want to compromise. When they do compromise they're simply stalling in the face of opposition that they know they can't pass. They will attempt it, again another day. You cannot reason with unreasonable people. You can't compromise with people who want to subjugate you.
A bit long winded but something I felt I had to say.
Why attack threepers? Because you hope the boots your licking now won't end up on your neck in the future because while you enjoy guns as a hobby you're really not so keen on the 2nd Amendment that you'd die for it. That's why.
I am trying to keep an open mind about all of this. I am still digging for facts. That being said, the personal attacks on your opposition weaken your argument to me. That is a tactic the looney left uses, Isn't reasoned argument with solid facts better?
My latest comment over at Prag West:
"And any reference to any oath is a joke. "
That says more about you than it does about anyone current-serving who's taken the Oath. You ARE saying that we can't count on the fidelity and morality of any man or woman in the service? You are, right? Yet supposedly we can count on mercenaries?
Mercenaries work for who? They get paid by who? By an administration with taxpayer dollars. Have you noticed who runs that administration these days? You think that in the end they won't work for those policy goals they're paid to work for? And they DO hire foreigners who have not been in the US military. I also notice that nobody has touched the domestic spying issue. Is that off the talking points page you've been issued?
This is still about kissasses wanting range time and boys who want access to their toys without risk.
We've drawn our line. When are you weenies going to draw one for yourselves? Never, right? When I'm dead and buried you'll still be making excuses for inaction.
And by the way, I'll be in DC this weekend, helping to wave that Oath in the tyrant's face. Where will you weenies be? On a Xe range, right? Big bad prags. Risking nothing, doing nothing, being, in the end, nothing. -- Vanderboegh
"I am trying to keep an open mind about all of this. I am still digging for facts. That being said, the personal attacks on your opposition weaken your argument to me. That is a tactic the looney left uses, Isn't reasoned argument with solid facts better?"
There is more than a little history here, and yes personal attacks should normally be eschewed. Only this argument started a year ago July with the Prags calling me "demented" and worse.
Look, there are Threepers who currently work for private contractors, some even for Xe. The criticism is not about employees of mercenary companies, there are many who having once taken the Oath, will stand true to it.
This is about:
a. The general principle that mercenary legions who owe their continued success and therefore their allegiance to a government paymaster are not good for a Republic. The Founders would certainly agree with me on that. And,
b. This is about Caleb liking his free training and range time with Blackwater/Xe and trying to curry their favor. This thing sorta came out of the blue. Why now? It makes no sense. Which is also why I think this came from these moral and mental Prag midgets themselves and not from Xe. If Xe wanted to make their case to me, they would do it on their own. They haven't, ergo, I conclude what I think and say makes no difference to them. Not surprising, and frankly I don't care. Hey, my blog only gets 2000 to 3000 hits a day. In the grand scheme of the Web, that's nothing. Insignificant.
But lickspittles need to remind their masters of their loyalty, so Caleb and Snowflake start bashing Threepers again on their behalf.
Personally, I'd bet that, if asked, Xe would rather they didn't. But like I said, this isn't about Xe, it IS about Caleb's compulsive need to be a lickspittle.
Such conduct deserves derision and insult.
Mebbe you could show up here sometime, Geoff, and I'll SHOW you what the difference is.
You're a good writer, Mike, and I like your style... generally.
But your inability to accurately identify 'the enemy' will wind up doing lethal damage to the causes you hold most dear. I do hope you'll be able to work your way past that.
Let me know if that ever happens.
I guess I have to ask; who the hell is Caleb and why is he, and his merry band of fairies, trying to harpoon us Threepers? I'd go to his site and attempt to figure it out but, just from the little bit I read posted here, he sounds like a total enema nozzle without substance.
Geoff: You will quickly learn the difference between members of our military and mercenaries when the foreigners, in the blue helmets, are ordered in to do what our soldiers will refuse to do.
My father's college buddy was close kin to Mad Mike Hoare. Yep, the one with the movie about him and everything. Interesting fellow but I know the ethics that were involved in his choice of work. They weren't particularly noble.
One of my African hunting acquaintances fought in a lot of dirty little wars in Africa a while back, wearing no uniform for pay because it was something to do and he was good at it, paid well. Self admits to being amoral at the time. Laws didn't matter to him, just the excitement and money.
He'll tell you himself he was a well paid sociopath that just happened to have the right skill set. Amusingly enough, what initially landed him in Africa at all was a humanitarian job related to the U.N. but that job was boring and didn't pay as well and he wasn't allowed to shoot people.
He's currently found a reasonably moral outlet for his talents as an African game officer that tracks and kills poachers which is interesting in it's own right because in-between merc jobs he used to poach to pay the bills in the same areas. Couldn't honestly tell you if he found morality or has just found a more socially acceptable angle on his career.
Maybe the little snowflake needs to know that some of us know his hosts better than he thinks he does. Literally.
I'm gonna have to go with being anonymous on this one for the sake of others I mentioned.
As others noted, there is a difference between the military and mercenaries: the Oath.
However, the Oath means nothing if there is no understanding behind it. If the servicemember understands the Oath as "obeying orders", then we cannot count on the military to question illegal/immoral orders.
I used to be very pessimistic about the prospect of young servicemembers understanding the Constitution and its fundamental principles. Then, I met a young man in Kuwait -- he was headed to Iraq, and I to Afghanistan, and we shared a tent while awaiting transport. This young man, a buck Sergeant (maybe no more than 20-21), displayed better knowledge of the Constitution than most so-called "Constitutional scholars".
He was only one young soldier, that is true. Yet, I wonder how many of him are scattered throughout the military -- those that not only swear fealty to the Constitution, but who also UNDERSTAND to what they are giving that loyalty.
Perhaps there yet remains a glimmer of hope...
I noticed little Caleb fired a parting shot and then ran (closed his comments). Little men do things like that.
Well, Mike, I've kept my silence - offline a lot plus too many hospital trips - but will at last chip in.
Back in the old days of Newsgroups and Usenet, we often had what we called a 'kill-file'. I know it sounds a bit provocative now, but we assigned originating email addresses or IP numbers to that file when we did not find the messages coming from them to be even worth the effort of reading them.
MOST of such verbal diarrhea was posted by the typical unemployed 30-something, living in Mom's basement or garage apartment, using a computer he bought with her social security check, and buying his beer with money sneaked out of her purse when she dozes off after her weekend job at the 7-11.
This is the type of person the Geoff appears to be; he serves no purpose other than to pass his hours trolling the waters with his pustulescent chum, making no sense, chuckling to himself at the mental masturbation he thinks of as "wit", and contributing nothing to anyone... not meaningful discussion, not healthy debate, nothing but cretinous insults.
I suggest deleting on receipt for such morons. Maybe if they can't find a place that will post their drivel, they will get a job and get their own place and get a life. Which would be a relief to all of us - as well as to their overworked Moms.
Actually, I don't think it came out of the blue. I think I started it over at Huffman's place.
Caleb is apparently needing blog material as I have not seen a thing on this blog which indicates any fears of Xe doing anything. As for the name calling, I've been called worse especially by key board cowboys who never figure they are going to have to stand in front of you with that stuff.
And where in wild world did they get that Threepers are not politically active. They damned sure haven't been around my house for the last many years.
What I don't understand: Caleb was clairvoyant enough to know the minds of all threepers, but then didn't know anything about the march this weekend in DC (which has been out for 3 weeks, maybe).
Poor advertising? I'd say poor intel on his part.
Prags see canon fodder.
They do serve a purpose the ATF being lazy will hit them first. And XE will march them off to the reeducation camp.
I also had one other question about this. Is there such a thing as a "good" mercenary? I have no doubt that bad ones exist, but are all of them inherently bad?
From what i seen of BlackWater during the Katrina debacle, i think i'd steer clear of them. Anyone who makes more money in two days than normal people make in a week aren't to be trusted. They weren't as bad as NOPD though ...
"I also had one other question about this. Is there such a thing as a 'good' mercenary? I have no doubt that bad ones exist, but are all of them inherently bad?"
My ethical touchstone when it comes to this is and will always be The American Volunteer Group, colloquially known as "The Flying Tigers".
None of this is as simple as it is being put here.
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