Tuesday, August 7, 2012

Hoover Tactical Firearms. My chance encounter with random acts of unnecessary nanny state ass-kissery.

So, I had to take my daughter to her job down south of town this morning and so I decided to drop in on a newer local gun store, Hoover Tactical Firearms. Big store -- biggest in town -- with an attached range. All very upscale. I looked around for an HKS36 speedloader and speedloader pouches for my daughter's INA Tiger .38 Special 2" barrel. No joy. Too old fashioned. But they had some .38 snakeshot cartridges and so, since I hadn't seen any of that sort of fodder on my side of town, I decided to get her a small (10 round) box.
Then I got up to the counter and the clerk asked me for ID. I reached in my wallet and automatically flipped it out. (Amazing, isn't it, how programed we are?) Then it hit me. Alabama law doesn't require it. "For ammo?" I asked. "Yes, we require it." By this time she had handed me the license back and rung up the ammo. "What policy? Whose policy? The store's?" "Yes," came the reply. "What asshole thought that up?" She just looked over my left shoulder at the manager who was standing across the room. I paid for it, although I shouldn't have. I turned and addressed the manager on the way out, "This is the last time you'll see me darken your door. Anybody who demands ID for ammo sales can stick it."
No wonder we find it difficult to find allies in the fight against the gun grabbers. There already is whole class of folks pre-programed to commit random acts of unnecessary nanny state ass-kissery.


Anonymous said...

Good to know, saved me a trip to Hoover,,,Is this guy related to Bloomberg?

Dedicated_Dad said...

It's not clear from your tale - did they scan or otherwise make note of your ID or just look to see that it was a valid state ID and hand it back?

Frankly, If it was the latter, I wouldn't be especially bothered, although I'd want to be sure that there wasn't a mini-cam positioned to read the ID or its barcode or whatever while the clerk seemed to just be looking at it - there *ARE* such systems available and on the market!

If they're actually keeping track of who buys what ammo, then yeah - "UP YOURS, PAL - you're on the 'enemies' list for sure!!"

Anonymous said...

I will remember the name of the store and pass it on.

Anonymous said...

You should've been with me when I bought a shotgun a few months back. One of the store's FFL's said that one of the ATF boys had been in several times over the last couple of years with "updates" to their requirements. One was that the "government issued ID" (absolutely required - government issue only) MUST have a street address on it. Well, where I live the Post Orifice doesn't deliver to street addresses, so the DMV merely typed in my mailing address. That's been just fine for all of my other firearms purchases over the last 10 years. Until now.

I'd brought the phone book with me, because the question had come up before when filling out the 4473, so I was ready. Not good enough. It had to be on the ID. I explained that the DMV wasn't ever going to put it on there, so what's left? I was thinking about going to get another "resident" ID - again from DMV, and maybe they'd put the street address on it, when another store clerk said that the ATF would accept something like a hunting license - as long as whoever issued it put the street address on it. OK . . .

So, off to the local Wally World I went.

When filling out the form, I noted that it says it is "state issued" ID. From a Wally World employee? OK, not going to argue the point when I'm just needing it to go back and buy the long gun. So the kid hand prints in the info from my DL - with the mailing address, instead of the street address as I'd written on the form. Had to ask him to do another one.

Went back to the gun store and completed the purchase - with a "state-issued" ID. With my address handwritten, based on what I'd filled out in the form.

So how crazy is that? Who thinks these things up? And how does that keep any UNqualified buyer from doing the same, especially with good faked ID?

Mattexian said...

Sounds kinda like the girl at Wally World asking for ID to make sure I'm old enough to buy cigs... I passed double that age, and not many high schoolers have as much forehead as I do!

Seremzh said...

When countries are divided by diametrically opposing philosophies, many, many people and organizations, will sell their souls to the enemy for everything for profit to self preservation.

Already there is at least one gun range that turns8 customer information over to police, without any monetary compensation.http://www.ammoland.com/2012/08/02/milwaukee-gun-range-voluntarily-reports-law-abiding-customers-to-local-police/#axzz22S0wUtan

This is just the calm before the storm.

Anonymous said...

Was a place here in Ky that tryed that a few years back. They lasted LESS than 1 year. Ray in ky

firefighter4884 said...

I can see the store clerk doing it as a matter of habit to check age for people under 18 / 21 (Ammo and Handgun Ammo) respectfully. Provided they aren't keeping a copy of your ID, I'm not convinced that there is a problem. I've been known to check ID for people who appear under the required age to buy ammo, and when dealing with part time or newly hired staff, or a large staff, it can be easier to just make it a policy that the check gets done.

How they handle you not having ID would be a telling story.

David Forward said...

I emailed Hoover commenting on their ID requirement. In answer to "Dedicated Dad's" comments, they do record all IDs. Here's the response I got from Hoover:

"We require a unique # for each buyer at our store to help with returns (so you don't have to have a receipt) and track individual sales (for a points program in the future). You have a choice of DL # or telephone #. Most choose the DL # because they have either bought a gun from us or are planning on buying a gun from us (all gun sales are kept under the individuals DL#) so that keeps all their sells under one profile."

Amy M. Zarzour

Anonymous said...

Let's shut this store down. Spread the word.

Notso said...

Mike, I think there is a bit of miscommunication. As far as I have seen (I work around HTF, not for them) the ID is asked for with ANY purchase, not just guns or ammunition. I think it is part of their point of sale system, not some method to track ammo sales.

Anonymous said...

Re the address on your ID, MUST be a residence address, not a post office box. We have the same trouble you do. Just get a state issued identification card, use your physical address.

Torque said...

J&G Sales in Prescott AZ, does the same thing. Quite the attitude when questioned as it is not AZ law for I.D. either. Supposedly they were to keep the info for "only" a few months, if the BATFE wanted to know who was purchasing ammo. Needless to say, that ending my patronage of said shop.
It is a shame too, I like the drive into town.


Anonymous said...

Is this the same Hoover Tactical from Gunbroker.com?

Anonymous said...

Hay Trinity, you raise an interesting point -- tracking by loyalty card. I wonder how many would happily be tracked on every purchase "Because, hey! Pointzz!!" but would otherwise kick and scream about being tracked. Once the "Hey, Points!" part of the brain kicks in, the follow-the-plot part of the brain falls asleep.

SomeTexan said...

I and many others in Texas got asked to never darken the doors of a SOT in Xxxxxx County, Tx for having blogs or opinions or posting here or linking to you/Codrea/Kurt.

One day the shop girl asks what's the name of my now defunct blog. Next time I pick up a transfer I'm charged, given my item, and escorted out and it was suggested I shouldn't say things on the internet. Not about them or anything. Blanket statement. Also, never come back, we don't want your trade.

For the Record, I am not a county resident where that pud resides and it's a storefront full line shop with a quieter trade in suppressors and various NFA mostly of collectible nature. Fellow also has a parallel NFA related FFL he runs out of his house nearby and I think he sometimes forgets what belongs to what.

Friend that smiths in that county said people have been taking wagers on when Cxxxxxx either turns into a fly fishing/eddie bauer type operation or goes belly up, as he ran off a significant number of his customer base, literally, in the past two and a half years and keeps cutting store hours back and removing days they are open. In Texas he isn't close to the only game in town, as you know. He's also done some questionable judgement calls on moving things in and out of inventory and his private collection without proper checking in and out of inventory. You can't bring in a Galil you are tired of and put it on the sales racks and not check it in the books or take a Galil home for a while as a personal arm either, and he did mishandling of some transfers.

I'm entirely persona non-grata, as I saw some of the violations in action and ingored them when we were reasonably friendly trading acquaintances. But ANY CHAIR IN A BAR FIGHT. I remember names, numbers, dates, and such very well and when I heard it wasn't me he got the batfoo so far deep up his ass I don't think even he knows how far up his ass they are. Any chair in a bar fight and screw law enforcement fanboys with money. My 3 grand is as good as Rick Perry's three grand.

Best manager and salesman he had retired and the second best one fought him on kicking some people out but there are plenty of SOTs that are quislings. That's why people like Len are so golden.

Some Texan that saw worse than "ask for ID for ammo" Some of you may hate me for any chair in a bar fight but I think most of you would do the same. You try to screw people with feds and dishonestly trade, jeopardizing the industry, you might just feel a bit of that heat yourself.

Ron Thomas said...

With a name like Hoover, you should have known it was going to suck.

Anonymous said...


Always practice NO.

When you can't - cover anything but name & picture with non see through tape - write "for removal by law enforcement only" - stops scanning & snooping. You've had problems with identity theft before, right?

Be careful to not leave ID near a belt sander where it can be scrathed & hard to read - impossible to scan. Likewise certain solvents and flecks of silver paint overspray.

A PO box address becomes a street address when using the post office street address & your box # as in 123 Main, Unit 16

With regard to Hoovers, I've never seen a store which will accept returns of either ammo or firearms.

DBM said...

I live in Hoover. Went to HTF to check out their indoor range. When I saw the sign that proclaimed "NO LOADED GUNS," it raised my ire.

I aske an employee if it applies to CCW. When they told me "Of course," I told them that I could not shop there. I walked out.

Most accounts of the store indicate that is run by former policemen who have a strong "only ones" mentality.

Notso said...

DBM, I think the judgement of the owner as an "only ones" type is incorrect. I dont mean to come across as an apologist, but I think you are off base with that.

I believe he is more inclined to sell to law enforcement, yes, but due to his background and friendships, not due to some overriding sense that "commoners" shouldnt have guns. The very volume of business they do with the public speaks volumes against any kind of "more equal than others" mindset.

A Texan said...

Academy asks for a zip code when you buy anything, including ammo. They don't ask for ID of any kind (though if I was 21 instead of 51 I suppose that they would - and should). I never give them the correct zip, and always pay for ammo and other gun-related things with cash.

Not quite the offender that Hoovers is, but I refuse to allow myself and my buying habits to be tracked easily. I advise others to do the same.

Anonymous said...

Agreed that J&G Guns does the same thing to ANY customer that comes into their door to purchase ammo. When asked the manager proudly proclaims, "if you don't like that I write down your name, address and ID number when you buy here THAN don't come here!!"

Boycotted by most true patriots in Prescott, AZ.

Anonymous said...

I passed the word along today on my FB. I have too many close friends and associates that may shop there and needed to know what was going on. I didn't really think a lot about it until today. Buying ammo and asked for ID. Handed over the ID and watched as a small red laser scan light went right over the back of the ID along the barcode above the magnetic strip. It was quick and appeared to be just as you hand it over to the cashier. I reached and grabbed my ID and cancelled the transaction. Never again. Also that points program is a load. They have no plans for that at all. We called and asked when they were starting it. The response was a pause then "We don't have one." When are you getting it "We aren't." Yeah...uh-huh. Sorry HTC not only do you not have my business you won't have about 150 other people that deal with your shop after this.

Anonymous said...

Hoover Tactical is under new management. It is my understanding that the cop is no longer there. Guess they finally figured out what he was doing.

Anonymous said...

Yeah I'm sure. That sounds like a load of bs to me. "New management." That's laughable.

Anonymous said...

Just left HTF . I must look poor. Nobody wanted to help me . Guns are way over priced . Guess iam not a rich hoverite.

Hoover Tactical Firearms said...

Hoover Tactical now has only two owners. We try to provide appropriate service. When you are not happy we want to know about it. You can contact us at 205-822-3600 using our new phone system press the appropriate number to get to management then leave a message. We will call you back.

As for pricing, we feel that we are quite competitive. I guess we should start showing the MSRP then our price. Even with Simmons we tend to be within 10-15.00. Is it worth driving from our store to Bessemer and back worth that small amount? (Unless you already have to go that way)

We have a large facility. The largest indoor range in Alabama with the only 50 yard indoor rifle range. It was a healthy investment so we need to price low enough to bring customers - but you cannot give away the store with this type of investment.

People that shoot at outdoor ranges have many opportunities to shoot different ways. But then again it does not cost much to create berms.

We truly believe we have one of the finest facilities in the country.

You should try out our Prism Simulator. It is a "live fire" video scenario simulator that provides real life scenarios for you to react to.

I hope this has provided the necessary information from this opportunity. For any other questions please call or come by.

Hoover Tactical Firearms said...

Buy the way. The ID requirement used by the previous management has been gone and our store now permits open carry as long as you leave you firearm holstered.