Tuesday, August 28, 2012

One of NYPD's finest sounds off on training and other issues. (No wonder they can't hit the broad side of a barn.)

A real head scratcher. "Marksmanship? Whut's dat?"
"NYPD officer AMA. All questions regarding 12lb trigger pulls and any other issues that have cropped up due to last week's shooting."
I'm posting this here instead of politics or AMA because I'd rather talk about gun side of things because I want to answer and discuss issues
NYPD officer here to answer any questions. Here are some facts:
•Every officer hired since the introduction of pistols in the NYPD back in the early nineties is NOT allowed to use a revolver as their service weapon. They must choose between a Glock 19, S&W 5946, or a Sig P226. All of these guns are in DAO variant and have NO external safety.
•Everyone who is allowed to carry a gun in the department (not everyone is) has to re-qualify once every six months (give or take, it's been as short as five and as long as nine sometimes).
•MOST NYPD officers fire their FIRST gun, ever in their entire lives, at the police academy, some as young as 21 to as old as 35 shooting for their very first time, and on a DAO pistol.
•The qualifications are HORRIBLE (and) get dumbed down every year.
•The NYPD offers once a month training for members to use, on their own time. However, all that is done during these sessions are the same basic dumbed down qualification exercises. You will only receive real help if you outright fail. Missed 12 out of fifty @ 7 yards? GOOD ENOUGH!
•Our tactical training is a joke and maybe ten people in a department of 34K have had Active Shooter training (I'm not exaggerating).
There is a lot broken, basically.
Some of our members NEVER take their service weapons out of their gun belts, and never carry ANYTHING off duty. I've seen people with 3 years on have brown rusted rear sights. Some never clean their weapons unless forced to by the firearms unit.
The NYPD has been tight fisted with ammo for the longest time. Take your one box and be happy.
I'll answer any questions you guys have.
PS: Our holsters are shit also.


AaronW said...

Suburban New Yorker here... my range is right near the City. Lots of police go there to practice, including some from the NYPD. I fired a Smith with that 12 lb trigger, and although it is smooth, it's long and requires too much effort.
A firearm trainer that uses my range, a former cop, who knows a LOT of police in the area, told me that the quals are 2x a year, nothing beyond that is required, and that few of them bother to seek additional practice or training on their own.

MamaLiberty said...

No surprise. I had a guest in one of my classes, a retired Army instructor and avid shooter. He had also spent time training police in various places.

I have 120 hours of professional training, both firearms and tactical. I also have countless hours logged in at the range and hold classes frequently.

My guest told me that I am better trained and prepared than most of the "cops" he ever met. And I'm an old lady with some serious physical disadvantages.

Pretty pathetic.

eddy3 said...

Very sad state of affairs. Thank you for your comments and insight.

Anonymous said...

Wow...I never would have guessed...

Anonymous said...

Mike, what is this about?

h/t JawaReport


bloodyspartan said...

NO SHIT , but thanks for Clarifying what we already Knew, Once Karl Marx and social justice got into the program, Marksmanship and drones were the order of the day.

Real Cops went out about 30 years ago.

3 foot Dwarfs, Bisexual toads and GOD knows what else, along with all other standards are the order of the DAY!

Anonymous said...

If they qualify all officers on the force every 6 months, then it costs the city maybe $1m in ammo each year. If they just doubled that, it'd still be less than what one of the victim's settlements will probably cost their insurance company.

But will the bean counters do that? Of course not!


Anonymous said...


Walking up to the shooting line is not great for qualifing. At a minium they should be required to run 100 yards(if they can)and then shoot to qualify.

Maddawg308 said...

Not sure, in a way, if it's good to post this info. It's giving the perps in NYC a behind-the-scenes look into how badly the police are trained and equipped to deal with serious threats. Might give the perps some research data to better train and equip THEIR ranks.

But it also gives us an idea of how bad things have gotten in NY's finest, compared to say, 50 years ago.

Anonymous said...

Most cops are lousy shots. When I got into law enforcement in 1972, my City of LA firefighter father said: "don't be a cop, son! Cops are lazy and stupid!" He was not too far off the mark. If you want to buy a good used handgun, get a police trade-in. Most ae in VG to excellent condition.
In my experience of over 30 years, most cops shot only when they were forced to(quarterly) and some in the plain clothes units I worked they would walk out of the office with their handgun in their briefcase! Cooper used to harp on mindset in his columns. He was right.

Roger J said...

Is this the "intensive training" Mr Anonymous was raving about the other day? And NYPD stingy on ammo? Looks like Mayor I-wanna-be-Dictator Bloomberg's anti-gun mania extends to his own police officers.

Yenta of Sipsey Street said...

Thanks for you input. I have spoken with manufacturers at IACP and NSA shows and they have told me the same stories. One even said that in his experience, he believes that 5% of all cops will not fire even if necessary. They are counting on the statistics to carry them through their career. 98% of all police will never fire in the line of duty. Tales about "lead roofs" in indoor ranges abound. I fire with a local department 2X year just for the hell of it since I work with these guys and it sort of validates my state issued carry permit.
You good cops out there have a hell of a job. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

The problem with NYPD is that they believe their own BS and watch too much COPS on television..

If that's the best excuse these clowns can come up with for shooting all those innocent civilians then they should all be arrested and charged with criminal negligence at least,I can also envision some kind of liability for the mayor and his head cop for failure to perform..

NYPD should be ashamed but NYPD has no shame anymore, they lost it when they surrendered their honor for violating their oaths. This is a truly despicable performance that good cops should be outraged about but that blue wall stands fast.

Yank lll

W W Woodward said...

That's about what I figured Bloomberg's highly trained and proficient officers of the NYPD received during their occasional "firearm qualification training".

I've been a police and corrections firearm instructor for over 25 years both in the public and private sector and discovered early on that any actual training I was allowed to do had to be done on a shoestring non-budget. I had to build my own range with scrap material and with volunteer and inmate labor and at the end of the day the administrations I worked for were only interested in whether the employee could score at least the 70% required by state regulations.

I can teach a 10 year old kid how to score 70% with a handgun. That leaves him/her far from being qualified to carry a fire arm and make life and death decisions.

If the NYPD expects to put qualified shooters on the street, they're going to have to pony up a considerable amount of time and money they have to date been unwilling to commit.

I would wager that all police agencies have for the most part the same training deficiencies exhibited by the NYPD.


Longbow said...

I have a question for you:

Why don't you Law Imposement fucks grow a set of nuts and make a public statement telling The Mayor, every time he advocates the Gun Prohibition agenda, that his policy is wrong, that he doesn't speak for Policemen, and that you all believe that the free citizens of this Republic have a RIGHT to keep (possess) and to bear (carry!)arms, particularly arms suitable to personal defense?

Don't worry, I know the answer. You will never say it because you don't really believe it. You believe, as thugs and gangsters always do, that if members of your gang are the "only ones" armed, things will be better for you. You believe that if mere mortals, you know, "civilians", are armed, they might just get the idea they don't need the gang, i.e. YOU.

If members of your profession were worth a bucket of cold piss, you would advocate, every time a mass shooting occurs, for all adult citizens to carry their sidearms and be damned sure they are proficient in their use.

Yet, every time one of your profession, in one of your professional organizations or in your chain of leadership speaks for you, it is to advocate being a good victim and nothing more. You all in the rank and file remain silent.

If you policemen, truly believe, as goes the myth, in the right of all free men to be armed and to defend his own and his family's life and property, then stand the fuck up and start saying so now! Mandate that your professional organizations say it publicly, as a matter of policy.

Every time the Mayor or the Police Commissioner takes the podium to advocate the banning of "assault weapons" or for "tighter" gun laws, all of you "really good guys" who support the second amendment should swarm the stage and drown out such nonsense.

As always, the silence is deafening.

You believe it? Man the fuck up and prove it.

Pat H. said...

While I don't live in New York, don't live in a city here in South Carolina either, frankly I don't really want law enforcement to be a bunch of "dead eye Dicks", if they could shoot worth more than a dime, they'd be significantly more militant than they already are.

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised none of the cops shot themselves in the foot.

Anonymous said...

so a nice 12 pound trigger will cause the gun to shoot to the right about what? 15 inches?

Jimmy the Saint said...

Enh, so a couple of mundanes catch stray rounds now and again. No big deal - just so long as persons of quality are not inconvenienced.

SWIFT said...

I read once that NYPD has a billion dollar budget set aside for lawsuits each year. Why not clean house of all the thugs causing lawsuits and spend the money on training? What a shithole. 128

AJ said...

Longbow said "You believe that if mere mortals, you know, "civilians", are armed, they might just get the idea they don't need the gang, i.e."

Ding! Ding! Ding!
That's it right there! Herr Bloomberg and his ilk want to foster a sense of dependency in all aspects of American life. Dependency on the gov't for food, jobs, security, health, everything. When people can take responsibility for their own security, they start feeling empowered and independent. When they feel empowered and independent when it comes to security, they might start feeling that maybe they can apply that independence to other aspects of their lives.
Dictators like Furious Mikeee B. can't stand the thought that maybe the good folks of New York don't need him after all.

Anonymous said...

Now here is an interesting tidbit about the fine NYPD! After reading and researching this it makes one ill.


Anonymous said...

It looks like Bloomberg can take concrete steps to get guns "off the street" in NYC in order to reduce gun violence. Disarm the NYPD.