Friday, September 27, 2013

"Murky gun debate"? What's murky about it? Seems pretty clear-cut to me. The real question: Is Appleseed going politically correct?

Project Appleseed tries to find middle ground in murky gun debate


Anonymous said...

Ron Paul on jay Leno last night came out against bg checks and said the navy shooting was example of govt failing. The audience erupted into applause when he said this would not have happened in most Texan homes!

Anonymous said...

I attended my first Appleseed three months ago. No comparison between this guy and the instructors at Manchester. They expressed a real sense of urgency about where our country is headed. They encouraged everyone to stay aware and involved, and to teach liberty to the next generation.
Of course Dan from NY was likely taken out of context or even deliberately misquoted to support a very slanted article.
God bless you, Mike. Some of us just need to accept that our various support roles are well, thankless.


RustyGunner said...

Don't know about Appleseed as a whole but that particular fellow was playing to his audience.

Anonymous said...

Considering the AS class was being taught by a native New Yawker, in the heart of the poisoned Big Apple, and it's being reported by the NY Metro (NYTimes lite?), yeah, teh anti-gun bias is going to show through, lots. But it's one step up/forward from the mass majority of the bleating sheeple.
And I'll reserve judgement on the whole AS project until I get at least a sampling on other ASs from other parts of the country.

B Woodman

Frederick H Watkins said...

The Appleseed guy believes the term zombie means "liberal gun control opponents" and nothing else. I've shot at a few zombie targets and I never thought that. In fact I didn't really think anything of the targets, I just controlled my breathing and squeezed the trigger until the gun fired. If I had to assign meaning to a zombie target I would say they represent whatever you may find yourself being attacked by.

Anonymous said...

Gave up on Appleseed ...nice concept, definitely lots of fun but subsidizing already tax payer funded LE & military did not sit well.

At this point in time, anything that involves LE and weapons tickles my tin foil paranoia. Too much surveillance, too much technology. No thank you.

There are also a major differences among presentations, praxis & instructor attitudes.

Anonymous said...

I am an Appleseed Instructor. Based on the location and the organization doing the reporting, take what was said with a huge grain of salt. Better yet, for those of you "reserving judgement", get to an Appleseed event. Don't believe everything you hear coming from some rag in the heart of a screwed up city. Find out for yourselves what we really are all about.

Our Forefathers had two choices: submit and live in slavery or fight for their freedom. What we do indeed teach is that they fought and died to give us a third option: civic involvement (including the vote). We don't have to take up arms every time the government gets out of line. However, we do need to be VERY involved beforehand: attending meetings, voting, staying informed of the issues, writing op-eds, writing our officials, etc.

That being said, there is no middle ground. The RTKABA is every bit, if not more, important than all of our innumerable rights. Rights which are not granted by the Constitution. Rights which are not granted by being American. Rights that are ours for simply being human. The Constitution simply tells the government a few examples of where it may not tread.

jon said...

i've been instructed by fred at an appleseed. whether he disagrees or not, i don't think fred would ever say anything like that. i doubt he'd even discuss that subject. no need to dignify that nonsense by responding to it. of course, this is just my opinion based on an hour or two in the presence of his calm demeanor.

appleseed is completely and thoroughly decentralized. in my mind i would never let something like this reflect on the whole movement or system.

Liberty or Death said...

I also feel the instructor was either misquoted or playing to the audience (news paper). As Apple Seed is such a diverse organization not unlike the Tea Party, I don't think one groups position has any bearing on the next groups.

Anonymous said...

I guess it's time for me to find an Appleseed event. I hope I can afford the price of a "NY dinner" and be able to attend.


Anonymous said...

I attended an Appleseed weekend and then a week long bootcamp last year. Given that this is a New York online newspaper, it would not at all be surprising if the instructor was misquoted and/or taken out of context.

And even if not, who knows, he might be booted out tomorrow. Still, he's only one out of many. Unless I saw this coming from Fred himself, or others in leadership, I'd take it with a grain of salt.

I may be going to another weekend event next month. I may bring along a copy of this article and if any of the instructors I know are there, I may engage them about it.

Anonymous said...

I attended an Appleseed weekend in April of '11 and I guarantee that the tone and apparent underlying philosophy evinced in the quotes in that piece bear only the most nodding acquaintance to what I heard/say/experienced.

Anonymous said...


Fred gave a few of the talks at the Appleseed weekend and bootcamp I went to, as well. This was at the Appleseed 'Home' range in Ramseur, NC, near where I live.

In one of those talks, he explained the origin of the Three Percent credo without calling it that and sounded like he was reading right from this site. I turned around and pointed to the back of my vest with the III patch on it and got several nods of approval and an acknowledgement from Fred.

Fred gets it, even if it's not the core of what Appleseed is trying to do. Appleseed merely whets the appetite.

SWIFT said...

I attended a two day Appleseed shoot. The instructors were professional in attitude and sincerely wanted you to succeed. The various shooting positions, along with sling placement, were pretty much along the lines of what I learned on Parris Island many years ago. I support the Appleseed Project.

aaronw said...

On the site The Truth About Guns, Dan himself chimes in with some clarification about what he said vs what appeared in the article.
I took instruction from Dan - he's safe smart and does a great job on the range of teaching us, and is equally adept and engaging when relating the historical material.
Keep in mind the special context: a basement range in downtown Manhattan. Very few students are "gun people" taking that class to round out their shooters' education. Most are beginners who bring tremendous political baggage to the class, as well as trepidation about firearms, but are at least willing to learn. He's trying to ease them into it, and I'm sure he has to supply a bit of context for those people when they see targets that aren't impersonal concentric rings, or carry the vague profile of a prone enemy rifleman.
Dan also attended the massive Feb28th Albany rally to protest the SAFE Act, and an Oathkeepers meeting down at Fraunces Tavern a few months later.
I took another Appleseed a few months later up at Blue Mountain Range with a different batch of instructors, and found they were excellent, too.
Even in NYS, I think it's woth it to attend - the instructors do a good job on the firing line, and they're passionate about the history as its own thing, as well as the tendrils connecting it to our present day situation.

MIcopperhead said...

I hope they have not gone PC but I know from first hand experience that the Michigan Appleseed group will not allow you to join their instructor-in-training corps if you are an openly avowed member of the militia.