"Remington, U.S.A."
Remington's Modular Sniper Rifle–Lightweight
"A storied gun maker and the town with which it thrives."
I ask the predictable question: Despite the plant’s history and the cohesion of the town, do New York State’s business environment and sweeping new anti-gun legislation tempt the company to move? Some disgruntled gun enthusiasts believe that manufacturers should leave states that are hostile to their interests. Remington produces many weapons that are now illegal in New York State.
In answer, I am referred to a statement that was released immediately after Governor Cuomo signed the disastrous SAFE (Secure Ammunition and Firearms Enforcement) Act in January. It reads: “Remington will not run or abandon its loyal and hard working 1,300 employees without considerable thought and deliberation. Laws can be overturned and politicians voted out of office, but the decisions we make today will affect our people, their families and entire communities for generations.”
Do tell. Maybe contracts like this have something to do with their reluctance:
From the production floor I am taken downstairs to the range, where my guides have promised me a little time to fire some weapons. First up is a Modular Sniper Rifle–Lightweight (MSR-LW), used by elite outfits in the U.S. military. Remington has just won a $79.7 million military contract to make 5,150 units plus provide ammunition and spare parts. “I can’t tell you exactly who is using these in the field,” Kollitides tells me. “But I think you can guess.” In its promotional material, the company observes that rarely in the last two centuries have Americans stepped onto the battlefield without Remington products in their arsenals. That this is still true is a clear point of pride.
JES commented on this story with sentiments that mirror my own:
I am a Federally Licensed firearms dealer and I have discontinued selling Remington firearms and ammunition. When they move out of NY, I will add Remington products back to my inventory. Until then, they are IMHO supporting anti-Second Amendment zealots. Oh, I am also a former New York Stater and happy to be gone from the state.
22 comments:
Congratulations to the management of Remington for having the stones to stand up to the self-proclaimed and self-appointed gun rights spokespeople. Remington has the right to make the decisions that affect them and not to be pressured by a bunch of so-called gun rights advocates who are attempting to bully them into abandoning their home. This company has been around for two hundred years and has built strong and deep ties with the community and they have the moral conscious not to run away from a fight. Read the article and note the line about laws and politicians coming and going. How many states shall gun owners flee from before we make a stand and fight? Remington has chosen to stand and fight instead of being pushed back, grumbling and muttering from the new line drawn by the politicians in New York. Those who want to abandon Remington rather than to fight alongside of them look more like fair weather friends than people who add Molon labe to what they write.
Spend your money as you please, as will I. I support Remington.
Andy
Herschel at captainsjournal dot com has a more pragmatic take on this. Rem is certainly not showing any stones (or whatever) on this, and they know the constitutional issues won't be restored. Yes; it is true, consumers can let Rem can go the way of CTD and Dicks. There's always another bore out there that is just as good or better.
Arkindole
Well, Andy, I for one will not support Remington. Marlin firearms used to be well-made and accurate out of the box; since Remington took them over and started producing them in Ilion, they have gone to $hite. If you don't believe me, read the forums, particularly on the Model 1895. I'll put my money on firearms that are not only well-made and reliable but produced by companies that are not being bought off by one-time government contracts. In the long run, every gun company in the US, including the big boys like Ruger and S&W, need the American sport shooter. To continue to have sport shooting in the US, each gun company will have to make a stand. Those on the wrong side, such as Remington, will not get my business.
I just wonder how I was unaware of the existence of the MSR.
That's an interesting rig I will have to investigate further.
The good new is that the days when the American shooter had to depend on "the big boys" to supply firearms died with the advent of CAD/CAM and CNC machine centers. Now instead of just a few sources, there are gun manufacturers that make quality products springing up like mushrooms.
Stick with Remington if you like but my money will go to support someone who supports me until such time as Remington decides it would rather not be the next Smith & Wesson.
I fully understand Remington's decision to not move. I agree with their logic. They simply cannot allow emotion to rule when they still owe their owners a consistent profit. Imagine if you were a long term employee with a paid off home and grandchildren nearby and the company forced you to move for that reason. They owe their loyal employees more than that. Their electing to stay in NY does not mean they agree with the recent legislation - quite the contrary. So, as long as they make good products, I fully support Remington.
- Old Greybeard
From this website, “The Three Percent today are gun owners who will not disarm, will not compromise and will no longer back up at the passage of the next gun control act”. Why should Remington leave? Because a bunch of people disagree with their decision to stand in place instead of backing away from a new gun control act? People who do not have an investment in time, money, and the labor it took to build the company. People who know nothing of building and running a company the size and complexity of Remington. People who listen to the news or read a few blogs and think that provides enough information to make a decision for someone else. Since when is the media the source of all that is honest and true? Who is incautious enough to trust the words of an anonymous blogger who obviously does not know as much about the situation as the people who run Remington or who work there? Who are these people to demand Remington flee from their commitments to their employees and their community? It is time to support the gun manufacturers rather than to allow some agent provocateurs to divide the community. For those who do not want to buy Remington products, do not. Dissatisfied with a product? Return it, get your money back, and buy something else. By all means, spend your money as you will. However, please stop trying to divide the gun community by relying on the OPINIONS and rants of people angry because a 200-year-old company thinks they can run their business better than a bunch of anonymous commentators.
Frankly, I am shocked that Dutchman is not on the side of Remington in this fight. It is not like Magpul moving out of Colorado. They are a company with a fourteen-year history, not a landmark company like Remington. Forcing a heritage company out of their home would be a major PR victory for the enemies of freedom.
Andy
Fuck you Andrew, and your friends too.
Remington can fuck and die like the traitors they are.
Not another penny.
I'm sorry if I appear to be intolerant. Self-serving traitors tend to bring that out in me and more than a handful of others.
Thank you anonymous for your input and your well wishes. I too hope that my friends and I get laid…..ha ha ha. I do not believe that you are being intolerant. In actuality, you read like someone who has allowed their emotions to replace their ability to use logic and common sense in problem solving. Instead, you have decided to lash out at someone who does not agree with your OPINION. Since you obviously know nothing about me, your attempt to paint me with the “self-serving traitor” brush falls flat. There are lots of crybabies and bullies on the internet and your mewling, use of profanity, and tough talk does not perturb me.
There are lots of fine manufactures out there and you should certainly find one that you want to support. By all means, spend your money the way you choose. I will do the same. Hope that your day is going well anonymous.
Andy
It never ceases to amaze me that many of the followers of this blog are indeed illogical and under-educated. If you knew anything about the way a business has to work, you would understand and back Remington's decision. I'm glad Magpul and several other companies have chosen to leave their gun-grabbing states. Their owners duly considered the costs in both money and the effects on their employees and the company's long term profits and decided that it made more sense to leave. Remington's owners and/or board of directors used similar considerations in making their decision. Why should Remington pay the tremendous costs to relocate their considerable investment in plant, equipment and employee training when there is some possibility that things may change in New York state within a few years? Even if things don't change there, why should we consumers have to pay a higher price for Remington's products because if they chose to make the millions-of-dollars investment required to relocate? Wouldn't you rather continue to pay a reasonable price for their products? Come on now - THINK instead of feel. Feeling is what liberals (collectivists) do. Thinking is what conservatives, libertarians and patriots should be doing.
- Old Greybeard
According to "Anonymous Andy" I guess we should all continue to hunt in Colorado too....I mean, it's not the people's fault for electing POS representatives that curtailed their rights in that state just like the liberals of NY, right?
Oh wait, yes they did.
Logic: It's not just for breakfast anymore! LOL
Old Greybeard isn't critically thinking either....
Money is what governments thrive on....repressive ones especially.
If you dry up their funds, they lose power.
Continuing to support Remington in states where draconian gun laws have passed will continue to fund those governments.
These governments look at their inhabitants as nothing more than sheep to be shorn.
I can see your side of it, OG....but as usual, there's more than one side to a complex issue.
Wow. FIFTEEN GRAND + for each rifle?
No wonder they're stayin'.
I can't even appreciate the difficulty of moving a manufacturing business from behind enemy lines, and still keeping the company profitable.
I would not participate in such a boycott.
But if I see a comparable product for a fair price from a company which had moved to free America for ideological reasons.
That company would have an advantage.
Cheaper than Dirt reneged on sales because they figured they could leverage the situation to weasel out more profit by screwing customers. That I will not forgive.
Yes, that is an excellent tactic when you are losing an argument. Shift the discussion to another topic and continue your argument from another direction with a completely new set of complaints. That is exactly how liberals, progressives, and children do it too. As a reminder, the discussion was about what Remington is doing, not what is happening everywhere else at the same time. Remington. Please keep your mewling on the subject at hand.
Better yet, instead of continuing to display your ignorance to all, the best tact would be to withdraw. You are in an unwinnable discussion with me since I do not care what your OPINION is nor am I concerned about hurting your feelings. By the way, would some of you anonymous posters add some sort of handle to your message so I can know which anonymous person I am addressing at a time? I call dibs on “Andy”.
Thanks.
Andy
Oh, it's all about the shareholders for Remington and their ROI, huh?
Well in that case, this one old dead white guy sums it up pretty well:
“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
― Samuel Adams
No Andy, the question by the anonymous poster IS relevant to the discussion as it likely will ascertain your thought process on boycotts in general.
So, where do you stand on Colorado hunting trips?
I too believe that people can spend their money however they see fit.
In one breath you say they have that right, then chastise them for saying they won't spend money with Remington anymore. Which is it?
It's a disingenuous argument. You proved with your second post that you do indeed want others to hold the same OPINION you do and that if they do not, they must be "fair weather friends" or must be ignorant of what it takes to build a successful business.
The other side here calls it "Putting your money where your mouth is".
Not everyone is always going to agree with your point of view but everyone should be allowed to spend their money as they see fit. You agree with this on the surface, but continued commentary to the contrary in support of your position will reveal your true colors on the matter.
So go ahead, Andy....keep on posting.
I suspect that your next reply will likely be one that says it was never about how people spend their own money (in spite of your quoted text in this reply section full of advice to the contrary) and that it was more about the division of the gun community in demanding that Remington leave NY....and that's a far better argument....unfortunately, you decided on an additional tangent of your own making thereby engaging in the exact behavior you supposedly disapproved of by "shifting" the discussion.
Sean
Thank you Sean, you have correctly interpreted my two-part message that has not fundamentally changed from the original. That message is that people should spend their money as they see fit, and the naysayers should stop trying to split the Second Amendment supporters with their bellyaching. Since you understand my point on this issue, why should I have to address some other issue? I am not interested in being drawn off onto a different discussion point. If I did, then when I addressed that issue there would be the folks who would complain about that. Or want to drag me off into another direction, then another, and on and on. Frankly, I have other things to do than continue with endless debates about my thoughts on every Second Amendment issue facing gun owners. It should be unnecessary for me to preach to the choir.
For those of you who still do not get it, Remington has made a decision on how they are going to run their business. They have announced that they have made a commitment to their employees and community and are staying put. They have rightly pointed out that politicians and laws come and go, and they have indicated that they are going to tough it out. However, their explanation is not good enough for some people. Those agitators have declared themselves the judges of what the Second Amendment community should do. Those people want Remington to dump everything and run and hide. However, these agitators risk nothing. It is not their money on the line. Not their employees on the line. Not their community on the line. Yet they want to sit on the sidelines and dictate to Remington and other Second Amendment businesses and organizations what they should do. When they do not get their way, they fill the forums, chatrooms, blogs, and inboxes of everyone with their bellyaching about it. Meanwhile, the enemy continues with their assaults. The enemy of the Second Amendment loves to see us squabble amongst ourselves.
Sean, what have you and the other anonymous posters been doing besides bellyaching about my position and trying to put me down? It has been two days of complaints because I do not think it is a good idea to boycott everyone who supports the Second Amendment in a way that varies from the self-appointed Second Amendment dictators. In addition to the mundane day-to-day things, I have been buying gun related products that supports my local businesses. I have been writing my congressional representatives and senators thanking some for their support and reminding others that elections are coming up and that I will be watching what they do and donating to campaigns accordingly. I have been out in the community advocating for my gun rights and urging others to do so as well. I have read every one of the tired arguments, historical quotes, and inane posts intended to push me off my position. My point remains that if you do not like what Remington is doing, spend your money how you see fit. Stop bellyaching because not everyone is doing things the way you think it should be done. I will continue to support Remington because I am satisfied with their answers. I also tend to put more faith in what a 200-year-old gun company says, rather than a bunch of anonymous posters and folks who appear to me to be nothing but professional grumblers. People who are not happy unless they can bitch, moan, and complain about something.
Thank you Sean for putting a handle on your post. With all of the anonymous posters on the internet, it can be difficult in keeping them all straight. Old Greybeard, I appreciate what you did. For the rest, I apologize that I am not able to address everyone who wants to complain about my opinions. For all of you who have been following along or commenting, please take a moment to contact your congressperson or senator and ask for their support for the Second Amendment. Thanks to all of you for your patience and for allowing me the opportunity to voice my opinion.
Thank you.
Andy
Andy,
The reason you need to address the other issue (the one about how everyone should think the same as you) is b/c YOU BROUGHT IT UP.
I'm not going to rehash this for you...you're obviously an intelligent guy. You brought your OPINION about how others should support Remington while in the next breath telling everyone to spend their money how they see fit. You can't have it both ways.
You already answered the question on boycotts, though I do find it curious that Magpul is judged by a different standard based solely on time in business...but whatever. You're entitled to your opinion.
As for the pissing contest you are attempting to start with me over which one of us has done more to secure our 2A rights... As if b/c one of us has written more letters or attended more rallies that somehow justifies our position; let me put it plainly: It is ludicrous. I too have been attending rallies, writing letters, sending money to GOA, etc. It doesn't make your or my position right.
Like it or not, you're posting your OPINION (as if opinion is a dirty word,) just as your opponents are. Get over your self-aggrandizement in an attempt to add legitimacy to your position. It's childish and it proves nothing.
For the record, prior to this post where I'm calling your pissing contest childish, I haven't "put you down" in the slightest....and even now, I don't necessarily disagree with your point. Remington has every right to decide its future and each consumer has every right to spend their money or not with Remington.
Face it, you simply have a different OPINION than those whom you are at odds with though you claim people can spend their money how they choose. Your position is no more valid than the next guys in spite of what you seem to believe.
Good day,
Sean
Sean,
Read all of my posts again and then what you wrote. I did not bring up the Colorado boycott, you and an anonymous poster did. Even after I have made it abundantly clear that I do not want to be dragged off subject, you continue to try. Even in this most recent posting where you claim, “You already answered the question on boycotts”. Really? Where did I answer that? Once more, I HAVE NOT gave an OPINION on the Colorado boycotts. Remington. I am voicing my opinion on Remington.
You have it backwards; it has been you trying to get into a pissing contest with me. You attacked my opinion by calling yourself “the other side here” and used the phrase “Putting your money where your mouth is". However, when I “put up my money” in the form of showing my involvement with pro-Second Amendment activities, you then tried to crawfish back. You bleated that it is not important “which one of us has done more to secure our 2A rights”.
You also attacked my reasoning on the difference between a fourteen-year-old gun accessory company and the oldest firearm manufacturer in the country. Since you have the internet, try checking Wikipedia. There you will find among other things that Remington is also the only company that produces guns and ammo domestically, and is the largest producer of rifles and shotguns in the USA. As I wrote previously, allowing the enemies of the Second Amendment to push a heritage company out of their home would be a huge PR (public relations) victory. Why should this company move just because there are some complainers out there who do not like the way Remington is fighting back? If you do not understand the difference between these two companies, I suggest you watch a show called “Sesame Street”. It has puppets who will teach you how to tell the difference between things through the use of a catchy little tune.
Contrary to your claim, it is possible to have different viewpoints on a particular issue without those views cancelling each other out. I can encourage folks to spend their money as they see fit while simultaneously telling people that I am going to support Remington and attempt to persuade others to do so as well. A person who likes vanilla ice cream can eat other flavors of ice cream without becoming a traitor to vanilla. I should not have to keep coming up with different ways to say the same thing. Especially when you claim to understand what I am saying by regurgitating it back in your post.
What I find ludicrous is that after all of this, you admit that you “don't necessarily disagree” with my point. You also state that “Remington has every right to decide its future and each consumer has every right to spend their money or not with Remington”. Duh! So what are you bellyaching about then? Or are you complaining just to be complaining as I referenced in a previous post? For the record, you have proven my point about bellyachers. I could go on and on with examples of you trying to put me down but I do not need to. It is right out there for everyone to see.
Are you almost done wasting my time on this? Do you want to keep bellyaching and trying to bully me because I have expressed an opinion that may vary slightly from yours? I have other things I would prefer to do. For instance, there is a stainless steel Remington 1911R that I have had my eye on. Perhaps this will be the day that it comes home with me.
I hope that all of you, including Sean, have a great day. I appreciate Dutchman6 for allowing me to post to his blog and I am surprised, flattered, and humbled by the fact that people are interested enough in my opinion that they would read it and comment on it.
Thank you.
Andy
Andy,
You're the one who needs to work on your reading comprehension. I brought up the boycott issue in CO up after another poster did...you said you didn't want to address it specifically, but already did to an extent.
I haven't "continued to try" to drag you anywhere.....I acknowledged that you've already addressed boycotts in my last reply and left it at that.
You now claim you didn't say anything about CO boycotts, but did you NOT say, "I do not think it is a good idea to boycott everyone who supports the Second Amendment...."? You didn't specifically mention the CO boycott...but one could easily assume you were speaking in general terms. If you'd like to break down boycotts by state, fine by me, but it seems rather counter productive to your point about going off on tangents.
I never called "myself" the "other side here"....I said I actually agree with you in part and said, "The other side here" calls it putting their money where their mouths are....that doesn't mean I support that side either 100%. Please re-read.
You need to stop being so defensive and also look up what a pissing contest is. Your commentary about how much you do to secure 2A rights vs. what I do can be described in no other way. It was a weak attempt at justifying your position through your works. Problem is: you have no idea what I've done and I can't prove what you've done, nor are either of us able to quantify the affect we may have had on the movement with our actions.
There was no 'crawfishing' back....I've spent money just as you have. Are you going to now try and post $$$ amounts? This is getting ridiculous.
I NEVER attacked your reasoning for allotting different standards to Remington and Magpul...I stated I didn't understand it....as in I was "curious" how you came to that conclusion. Can you now tell me how saying you have a right to that opinion though I didn't get your reasoning at the time, can now be characterized by you as an "attack" by me?
I'll ignore your continued quips about Sesame Street and the like. It's not worth the effort to respond other than to say you are engaged in the EXACT practice you accused others of earlier in this thread. I'll let anyone reading come to their own conclusions about your character considering the hypocrisy of such commentary.
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the point of me talking with you about this subject. As I stated, I don't disagree with your viewpoint wholeheartedly....I was simply trying to be a peacemaker and also let you know that while we may have some slight differences in our opinions, those with deeper divisions from our view are not of any less value than our own. You, however, are obviously very defensive (and likely with good reason based on some of the sharply worded responses to your post)....but I'm not the one who said those things either, so I'd kindly ask that you tone it down a notch with that in mind.
Andy, this isn't bellyaching...it's discussing a topic wherein you have clearly misunderstood my intentions and I'm trying to clarify it...but instead you are being overly defensive. You also seem to want to have the last word on the topic, so if that's the case, go ahead. I doubt much more can be said here that will enlighten anyone.
Best wishes to you regardless,
Sean
Remington, the folks who use HS Precision products - endorsed by Lon Horiuchi...
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