When I first wrote of the Winston County legend of "The Boxcar," people took me to task for making up, in one fellow's words, "an impossible fairy tale." Really? Here is more evidence, if any were needed, of my real world opinion that there are far more weapons (and far more destructive weapons) in the hands of the people than anybody (especially the government) estimates.
Read this story and weep. Why is it that nobody dumps automatic weapons in MY creek?
David Hyche, right, of the ATF and Bibb County Sheriff Keith Hannah show a cache of WWII era weapons found in a creek in Bibb county last Thursday. The ATF is asking the public's for help in finding out the source of the guns.
Alabama road crews discovered World War II era weapons recovered in Bibb County
by Carol Robinson
April 13, 2009
A cache of World War II-era weapons discovered last week in a Bibb County, Alabama, creek had probably been there less than 24 hours, authorities said today.
David Hyche, resident agent in charge of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Birmingham office, said he has never encountered anything like this in his 21 years of work.
The firepower, discovered by a state road crew conducting a bridge inspection just north of Centreville late last week, is illegal to own, still in working condition and probably worth in the hundreds of thousands of dollars
"It's a significant arsenal if it got into the wrong hands," Hyche said.
Bibb County Sheriff Keith Hannah said state road workers called his office on Thursday after spotting the weapons.
Hannah sent a sheriff's dive team into the water, where they found four Japanese machine guns, a Japanese antitank cannon, an Italian machine gun, a Japanese 50mm mortar and a Thompson machine gun, also known as the Tommy Gun, a popular Prohibition-era submachine gun.
"The ATF is asking the public's for help in finding out the source of the guns." -
I think I heard Reverend Jeremiah Wright saying that ACORN had lost a shipment of their census-taking equipment for the new Obama Volunteers. So I guess they won't be illegal to own after all.
- Galtianus -
Mike - This post made me cry. Why couldn't this be my creek?
There's a creek near my place. If anyone wants to create another of these artificial reefs for the fish, I'd be happy to post the GPS coordinates.
Damn, I can't even keep a barrel from rusting on a Firestar. How do I pack rifles so they can sit in a river?
"The ATF is asking the public's for help in finding out the source of the guns."I should hope they knew who was responsible for producing the Tommy Gun and the M1919.
From what I've heard, those Japanese and Italian guns will be of limited value. To say nothing of finding enough of obsolete calibers and unique ammo handling equipment to use them.
This should remind everyone to ALWAYS look over the sides of bridges when possible.
Holy S**t! You see what passes for education these days?
You'd think that the road crew would have said nothing and just made them "disappear".
Uhmmm... but then again, how could you make them disappear if they never appeared in the first place? (wink, wink).
And if the BATFE thinks that "someone" is going to step up and try to explain those full auto weapons, then they're even dumber then the road crew!
SSG (Ret), U S Army
The sad part is that this is the only alternative if you inherited some non-registered automatics and are afraid to keep them.
What is wrong with that statement?
QUOTE "The ATF is asking the public's for help in finding out the source of the guns." QUOTE
I doubt the majority of the public over there will help them, unless a crackhead or meth head saw the cache being deposited. These two types of junkies would do ANYTHING to ensure they get a high.
Another lesson in operational security: NEVER TRUST ANYONE RIGHT OFF THE BAT. You don't know whether the people you make friends with are actually friendly, or crackheads or dope junkies, or moles.
QUOTE From what I've heard, those Japanese and Italian guns will be of limited value. QUOTE
Yes I thought about that instantly when I read this post. If there is only limited, or no ammo for these pieces, they will only be useful as large, and unwieldy clubs if push comes to shove. Even a crate of .303 Enfields will be about as useful as a moped on a ski slope, with the ridiculously high prices and absolutely low quantity of original brass and ammo.
For guns found in a creek, they're in remarkably good condition. That Thompson doesn't seem to show any rust at all. The rest of them seem to be likewise almost pristine.
There's no question that the weapons exist - after all, the U.S. government has thousands and thousands of lovely little guns.
The question is, how do we get our hands on all these weapons?
These poor lost wayward guns probably thought it was the rio Grande while trying to sneak into mexico.
I keep hearing of Good Samaritans who find Gloks left in the men's (or ladies') room by forgetful minions and who dutifully return them to the nearest appropriate (sic) police station.
There is not a chance I might take such a dangerous weapon and give it [back] to someone who might abuse it.
I guess that makes me a 'bad person'.
The creek at my place went underground years ago,we now have a Hell of a well, but I can show anyone where it used to run and if they wish I will allow them access to the overground to throw away ordnance.
Those poor wayward guns probably mistook the creek for the rio Grande, while trying to sneak into Mexico.
Somebodies granddaddy served in the Pacific theater,for most of those are Jap weapons. Wonder if they even work.
They aren't worth squat in the US to a collector, because they are defined into contraband by F-Troop ... world MG market value only.
If you don't care about legality, an AK is worth about $50.
As for the BATFE ... if they are abandoned, you don't get to ding the former owner for contraband possession ... unless you can buffalo him into confessing or prove he was caching them there in the creek.
Un-registered in '68 they are only worth a lifetime in prison.
Somebody's father probably brought these home from WWII and after he died someone in the family realized they were looking at large fines and long times and decided to dump them. Crooks and ne'er-do-wells would have sold them.
There are more of these in attics and under beds than you can count. A WWII widow offered a friend of mine an M2 .30 carbine. He was thinking about buying it. I advised him that if there were no papers (there weren't) the best thing he could do was go back and ask to see the M2 again and this time wear gloves and wipe his prints off of it. Twice. Drop it and run.
2 words: "Parts Kit",
A complete original rifle minus the receiver is still worth something. The receiver could be dropped off with a note to your favorite class-3 dealer as an unneeded replacement part. Last resort is the plasma cutter. Rusting in a creek is a desecration of historical artifacts. I know what the eff is in ATF.
A non-registered rifle could be "logged" by a Class-3 dealer as a salesman sample (non-transferable to mere mortals, but it would still exist intact). MG dealers set me straight if I'm wrong, please.
The Thompson is the only one I'd be interested in. "This one's malfunctioning--it tears through a whole stick with one pull of the trigger. Fix please.".
Could this stuff have been "planted" there by some govt. goon as proof the "militias" are preparing for trouble, thereby giving credence to a pre-emptive, door to door seizure? Much as it pains me, I try to stay in "their" heads as much as I can.
Parts kit solution is dangerous ... it would work, but don't get caught with the receivers.
Once you trashcan them, fine.
A class III SOT has to get firearms from a licensed source, or from someone who has paid the transfer or making tax. He can't just put them in his bound book and keep the BATFE happy.
The Japanese weapons yes but that Beretta Modello 38 SMG has a lot of value. It fires the popular worldwide 9mm. Luger cartridge. Although missing the receiver all you need is a metal tube and it would work fine again. Magazines would not be hard to come by. I am sure you could modify MP-40 magazines to use for it and maybe even some modern ones. Not only that they were the most prized SMG's of World War II. The Germans would even ditch their MP-40's to get a hand one as well as the Allies. Even I would love to get my hands on one.
Here is my proof that the Beretta Moschetto M38 was and still is an excellent SMG to have:
All one need do to render these guns unserviceable is a hacksaw, cut the receiver once its been stripped of all parts, and toss it back in the creek. or make ashtrays out of the pieces, its not a gun anymore.The parts would be worth some money, as long as they are in good serviceable condition.If a gun is not papered, its contraband and no dealer will touch it.If the Jap 20mm were permanently converted to .50 cal, it would be reborn, legal as chicken on Sunday.
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