The ORIGINAL gathering place for a merry band of Three Percenters. (As denounced by Bill Clinton on CNN!)
Wednesday, January 27, 2016
Corrections to previous post.
The FBI did not advance to take the Refuge last night coincident with the roadblock and it was Ryan Bundy who was wounded not Ryan Payne (more's the pity). Will have more later.
24 comments:
Uncle Elmo
said...
Early reporting on this was all over the ballpark. I have a funny feeling we will never know the truth.
Regarding due process, don't forget that the Hammonds received due process- at the hands of a stalking U.S Attorney appointed by Obama and a Clinton appointed federal judge (who happens to be married to a former chair of the Democratic Party of Oregon).
"it was Ryan Bundy who was wounded not Ryan Payne (more's the pity)"
+1000 Read that this morning. Tango foxtrot bravo. I figure the roadblock scenario was a setup to show us dumb peons who's boss. Funny thing; I was under the impression WE THE PEOPLE were nominally the ones in charge. Guess not.
"Land o' the free an' home o' the brave," Says so right here on the label.
"They're doing all the things that shows that they want to take some kinetic action against us," Robert "LaVoy" Finicum says of federal agents. These were some of Finicum's last words to The Oregonian/OregonLive on the day before his death.
Of course it wasn't Ryan Payne injured! From the looks of it, he had a plan already worked out to get himself out of harm's way before his fed buddies opened fire on the rest of the vehicle's inhabitants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg
According to Victoria Sharp - who says she was sitting in the backseat between Shawna Cox and Ryan Bundy - Ryan Payne left the vehicle when it was first stopped by the feds, under the guise of pleading for the women to be let out. LaVoy was behind the wheel and took off, while Payne was supposedly arrested. Victoria says that further down the road, the feds had the road blocked and opened fire on all the vehicle's inhabitants, but what luck that Payne wasn't there for any of that! I wonder how soon it will be before his charges are mysteriously dropped and he shows back up again to brag about his close call, those evil feds, and what a loyal patriot he is. Despicable!
After this, any patriot who associates with Ryan Payne is a fool.
IndieAnnaJones. Honestly, it appears you didn't even listen to Victoria's testimony and made up what you wanted to hear. So, according to Victoria who was in Lavoy's truck, Ryan Payne stuck his hands and head out the open window and a shot was fired. Victoria believed it was shot at Ryan and "missed". She claims maybe because he "ducked". Next, according to Victoria, either Ryan or Lavoy said "wow, they mean business, they are going to shoot us". It was THEN that Ryan Payne exited with his hands up. NEXT Lavoy decided to drive away. If Lavoy had exited at that moment like Ryan did, things would have been different. By your logic, somehow Ryan Payne knew Lavoy was going to drive away invoking a hail of gunfire, and so got out just in time? I don't think so.
Also note that according to Mark McConnell's testimony, his Jeep had already been emptied of its occupants (Ammon, Buddha, and Mark) who were already in custody, before the Feds even approached Lavoy's truck.
Cynicism is one thing, but hysterical slander is a whole other thing.
Mark McConnells take is 2nd hand at best once Lavoy drove off? And how might I ask did he speak to people who were just incarcerated yesterday late afternoon? Further why wasn't he detained as well?
look I understand "executive protection" is a learned skill..
but who put the entire leadership off-base and in a single convoy? find the guy who thought that was a great idea, and I bet that's where you find your rat.
Among some of the intel type folks there's a report on that turd floating around that outlines the evidence behind the accusations, and it's pretty complete and damning. Perhaps someone could get you a copy. It's not slander or libel. It's fact, with a logical conclusion.
The Jester, I listened to the entire testimony. Apparently you are unaware of the numerous other strikes against Ryan Payne's character that have lead many others to believe he is a fraud and a paid provocateur, starting with his insidious actions against Oath Keepers and the supply chain at Bundy Ranch. Youtube has ample ammo for this argument, so I suggest you do your research and get back to us.
Of course Ryan exited before they unloaded mass shots on the truck! That's the point! Given the absolute hell that would have been unleashed by patriots nationwide had the feds/OR troopers opened fire on an idling truck with cooperative inhabitants inside (rather than one fleeing in a chase as it is claimed LaVoy did), how likely is it that any shot supposedly aimed at Ryan was actually intended to hit him - rather than being a simple signal to exit the vehicle at that time before the real hailstorm started?
Many others - Mike Vanderboegh himself, I think - have been very vocal about their extreme distrust of Payne and his tactics. I was simply furthering the discussion to point out how he managed to be absent for the fireworks while looking like a hero to the naive people inside the truck cab. Wait for Payne's charges to be dropped and for him to reappear to brag about his heroics.
With a DOJ and FBI in a historically corrupt Obamanation, that doesn't do anything but lie, why would any SANE person think the FBI would HONOR ANYTHING they would negotiate?
You know, I get it the readers are amateurs at best understanding tactical and strategic considerations, but this WHOLE BURNS EVENT was from a military standpoint, a massive STRATEGIC, tactical, leadership and logistical FAIL from DAY ONE and any previous planning by the alleged "militia" involved, never mind the failure to figure out their FED infiltrators and co-opted actors. if you aren't doing a serious LESSON LEARNED REVIEW of all information people and events connected to this abortion, then you are planning for FUTURE FAILURES as well.
Those protesters were not militia. They were just ordinary Americans fed up with the absolute lawlessness of the BLM and by extension, the entire government which is feculent with corruption.
Of course they were amateurs. They didn't belong to any militia. They didn't train with any militia. They were working their asses off from sunrise to sunset on their ranches while constantly fighting off harassment and sabotage by the BLM.
They were pushed and pushed and pushed again until like any principled man, they stopped backing up, they dug in their heals and by God they were not going to give up another inch of ground to the Bureau of Land THEFT!
These otherwise peaceful men (and women) who just wanted to be left alone to work their ranches and take care of their families finally made their stand. They weren't high speed, low drag tactical operators. They weren't intel specialists. They were fathers and husbands and wives and daughters and sons and brothers.
I'm getting sick and tired of reading comments such as how their actions were "...a massive STRATEGIC, tactical, leadership and logistical FAIL from DAY ONE..."
I've been reading a lot of comments like that lately. Criticisms about their lack of military and tactical experience, as if the lack of such skills would be any justification for a good, decent and honorable man, a father of 11 children being murdered in cold blood. Or an 18 year old girl hunkering down as dozens of rounds pierce the vehicle she's in, and as she witnesses one man being shot multiple times, she sees another take a round in the should right fucking next to her!
I want to take back my original description of these protesters being "ordinary" Americans. It is not accurate. Those protesters were extraordinary Americans and TRUE patriots. And as far as I'm concerned, Mr. LaVoy Finicum wasn't a failure. He was a man who put his money where his mouth was. He was a man who didn't just bitch about the government on the internet, he ACTED!
As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Finicum is a hero in the true sense of the word.
these are lessons we've learned before. but new people come along and think they are treading upon virgin territory. that is the problem.
"when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana, The Life Of Reason, 1905
the old-school militia types, like Mike and others..remember. but they are left out of the process. so we have multiple "we told you so" moments. but since there are always new leaders, and each thinks they are walking a new path, they never listen. and so the mistakes are made again. and so on. round and round in circles.
perhaps that's the point. run us in circles, never getting ahead, never winning, just burning capital and manpower until it all runs out.
Hey Enraged....They should embark on things they have no experience or expertise in then. I stand by ALL my comments. this was and turned into a suicide mission led by fools who went ignorant and unprepared. Become martyrs out of ignorance is the most insane thing I can think of besides wholesale surrender... moral of the story, don't go trying to be revolutionary if you have no clue and amateurs (the results were predictable). Leave real fighting to people who actually trained for and are capable of it.
This exercise was akin to the moronic mass protests by the Occupy gangs, and just as successful. Was the beef legitimate? ABSOLUTELY. But you don't send wannabe lawyers from the University of Chicago in training to argue at the SCOTUS and then claim the absolute failure to be a victory. Failure to plan, failure to understand what their goals are, failure to understand the battlespace, means COMPLETE FAILURE and PR COUP for the US FED GOV PR efforts. they did more harm to ALL PATRIOT groups than anything else. But go ahead and cheerlead failure and senseless death. If you can't play chess, don't sit at the table.
Hey Allen, think for a second on this quote and the CONTEXT of the truth that it means ;
"..They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys. Which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them."
How much competent advice and help did these guys have from seasoned strategists and tacticians that understand the 4GW warfare mindset in USE TODAY? they went off to this thing blindly halfcocked purely on emotional impetus, with no clue and no plan and no strategy.
Enough said.
Finicum was a hero, but he gave his life foolishly for NOTHING in return, he didn't even attain martyr status, but he Is a statistic and a PR coup for TPTB.
Amateurs with no experience, no clue and a boat load of groupthink feel good ideas don't FIGHT wars, they don't even get to enter the fray with their "good intentions", but they certainly do help legit fighters to lose them by being the enemies best ally.
24 comments:
Early reporting on this was all over the ballpark. I have a funny feeling we will never know the truth.
Regarding due process, don't forget that the Hammonds received due process- at the hands of a stalking U.S Attorney appointed by Obama and a Clinton appointed federal judge (who happens to be married to a former chair of the Democratic Party of Oregon).
"it was Ryan Bundy who was wounded not Ryan Payne (more's the pity)"
+1000 Read that this morning. Tango foxtrot bravo. I figure the roadblock scenario was a setup to show us dumb peons who's boss. Funny thing; I was under the impression WE THE PEOPLE were nominally the ones in charge. Guess not.
"Land o' the free an' home o' the brave," Says so right here on the label.
Driving to an anti government rally was not the smartest thing to do .They should have had the rally at the federal compound come to them .
Victoria Sharp was in the car and witnessed the killing of La Voy Finicum.
She was interviewed giving her full testimony. 10 minutes of audio here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg
"They're doing all the things that shows that they want to take some kinetic action against us," Robert "LaVoy" Finicum says of federal agents. These were some of Finicum's last words to The Oregonian/OregonLive on the day before his death.
May God rest his soul in peace.
Comrade X
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/robert-farago/breaking-bundy-drivers-says-finicum-shot-while-charging-police/
Looks like Payne egged Finnicum on in some way. I think you smelled a rat a long time ago.
Wake me up when the civil war starts.----Ray
Of course it wasn't Ryan Payne injured! From the looks of it, he had a plan already worked out to get himself out of harm's way before his fed buddies opened fire on the rest of the vehicle's inhabitants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y92PvMFL0Eg
According to Victoria Sharp - who says she was sitting in the backseat between Shawna Cox and Ryan Bundy - Ryan Payne left the vehicle when it was first stopped by the feds, under the guise of pleading for the women to be let out. LaVoy was behind the wheel and took off, while Payne was supposedly arrested. Victoria says that further down the road, the feds had the road blocked and opened fire on all the vehicle's inhabitants, but what luck that Payne wasn't there for any of that! I wonder how soon it will be before his charges are mysteriously dropped and he shows back up again to brag about his close call, those evil feds, and what a loyal patriot he is. Despicable!
After this, any patriot who associates with Ryan Payne is a fool.
Mark McConnell, the driver of Ammon Bundy's vehicle, gives his eyewitness account on video.
https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/vb.721369761/10154667085229762/?type=2&theater
Defeat in detail all the way !
5Alpha , Delta Charlie Location, Uniform Ground .
Moral high ground ! When the domestic enemy's of the state have none ! On a local, state ,federal level. Behind enemy lines Ct.
IndieAnnaJones. Honestly, it appears you didn't even listen to Victoria's testimony and made up what you wanted to hear. So, according to Victoria who was in Lavoy's truck, Ryan Payne stuck his hands and head out the open window and a shot was fired. Victoria believed it was shot at Ryan and "missed". She claims maybe because he "ducked". Next, according to Victoria, either Ryan or Lavoy said "wow, they mean business, they are going to shoot us". It was THEN that Ryan Payne exited with his hands up. NEXT Lavoy decided to drive away. If Lavoy had exited at that moment like Ryan did, things would have been different. By your logic, somehow Ryan Payne knew Lavoy was going to drive away invoking a hail of gunfire, and so got out just in time? I don't think so.
Also note that according to Mark McConnell's testimony, his Jeep had already been emptied of its occupants (Ammon, Buddha, and Mark) who were already in custody, before the Feds even approached Lavoy's truck.
Cynicism is one thing, but hysterical slander is a whole other thing.
Mark McConnells take is 2nd hand at best once Lavoy drove off? And how might I ask did he speak to people who were just incarcerated yesterday late afternoon? Further why wasn't he detained as well?
Mark McConnell is full of crap. And I find it rather curious that he is the only one that's not in custody.
This is the accounting of one of the women who was in the car with LaVoy who, unlike McConnell was an eye witness.
https://youtu.be/Y92PvMFL0Eg
look I understand "executive protection" is a learned skill..
but who put the entire leadership off-base and in a single convoy? find the guy who thought that was a great idea, and I bet that's where you find your rat.
Uh, Ryan Payne. That's who. I rest my case.
Among some of the intel type folks there's a report on that turd floating around that outlines the evidence behind the accusations, and it's pretty complete and damning. Perhaps someone could get you a copy. It's not slander or libel. It's fact, with a logical conclusion.
The Jester, I listened to the entire testimony. Apparently you are unaware of the numerous other strikes against Ryan Payne's character that have lead many others to believe he is a fraud and a paid provocateur, starting with his insidious actions against Oath Keepers and the supply chain at Bundy Ranch. Youtube has ample ammo for this argument, so I suggest you do your research and get back to us.
Of course Ryan exited before they unloaded mass shots on the truck! That's the point! Given the absolute hell that would have been unleashed by patriots nationwide had the feds/OR troopers opened fire on an idling truck with cooperative inhabitants inside (rather than one fleeing in a chase as it is claimed LaVoy did), how likely is it that any shot supposedly aimed at Ryan was actually intended to hit him - rather than being a simple signal to exit the vehicle at that time before the real hailstorm started?
Many others - Mike Vanderboegh himself, I think - have been very vocal about their extreme distrust of Payne and his tactics. I was simply furthering the discussion to point out how he managed to be absent for the fireworks while looking like a hero to the naive people inside the truck cab. Wait for Payne's charges to be dropped and for him to reappear to brag about his heroics.
With a DOJ and FBI in a historically corrupt Obamanation, that doesn't do anything but lie, why would any SANE person think the FBI would HONOR ANYTHING they would negotiate?
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
You know, I get it the readers are amateurs at best understanding tactical and strategic considerations, but this WHOLE BURNS EVENT was from a military standpoint, a massive STRATEGIC, tactical, leadership and logistical FAIL from DAY ONE and any previous planning by the alleged "militia" involved, never mind the failure to figure out their FED infiltrators and co-opted actors. if you aren't doing a serious LESSON LEARNED REVIEW of all information people and events connected to this abortion, then you are planning for FUTURE FAILURES as well.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
Neal Jensen,
Those protesters were not militia. They were just ordinary Americans fed up with the absolute lawlessness of the BLM and by extension, the entire government which is feculent with corruption.
Of course they were amateurs. They didn't belong to any militia. They didn't train with any militia. They were working their asses off from sunrise to sunset on their ranches while constantly fighting off harassment and sabotage by the BLM.
They were pushed and pushed and pushed again until like any principled man, they stopped backing up, they dug in their heals and by God they were not going to give up another inch of ground to the Bureau of Land THEFT!
These otherwise peaceful men (and women) who just wanted to be left alone to work their ranches and take care of their families finally made their stand. They weren't high speed, low drag tactical operators. They weren't intel specialists. They were fathers and husbands and wives and daughters and sons and brothers.
I'm getting sick and tired of reading comments such as how their actions were "...a massive STRATEGIC, tactical, leadership and logistical FAIL from DAY ONE..."
I've been reading a lot of comments like that lately. Criticisms about their lack of military and tactical experience, as if the lack of such skills would be any justification for a good, decent and honorable man, a father of 11 children being murdered in cold blood. Or an 18 year old girl hunkering down as dozens of rounds pierce the vehicle she's in, and as she witnesses one man being shot multiple times, she sees another take a round in the should right fucking next to her!
I want to take back my original description of these protesters being "ordinary" Americans. It is not accurate. Those protesters were extraordinary Americans and TRUE patriots. And as far as I'm concerned, Mr. LaVoy Finicum wasn't a failure. He was a man who put his money where his mouth was. He was a man who didn't just bitch about the government on the internet, he ACTED!
As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Finicum is a hero in the true sense of the word.
Sign me, Enraged
neal jensen,
these are lessons we've learned before. but new people come along and think they are treading upon virgin territory. that is the problem.
"when experience is not retained, as among savages, infancy is perpetual. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana, The Life Of Reason, 1905
the old-school militia types, like Mike and others..remember. but they are left out of the process. so we have multiple "we told you so" moments. but since there are always new leaders, and each thinks they are walking a new path, they never listen. and so the mistakes are made again. and so on. round and round in circles.
perhaps that's the point. run us in circles, never getting ahead, never winning, just burning capital and manpower until it all runs out.
Hey Enraged....They should embark on things they have no experience or expertise in then. I stand by ALL my comments. this was and turned into a suicide mission led by fools who went ignorant and unprepared. Become martyrs out of ignorance is the most insane thing I can think of besides wholesale surrender... moral of the story, don't go trying to be revolutionary if you have no clue and amateurs (the results were predictable). Leave real fighting to people who actually trained for and are capable of it.
This exercise was akin to the moronic mass protests by the Occupy gangs, and just as successful. Was the beef legitimate? ABSOLUTELY. But you don't send wannabe lawyers from the University of Chicago in training to argue at the SCOTUS and then claim the absolute failure to be a victory. Failure to plan, failure to understand what their goals are, failure to understand the battlespace, means COMPLETE FAILURE and PR COUP for the US FED GOV PR efforts. they did more harm to ALL PATRIOT groups than anything else. But go ahead and cheerlead failure and senseless death. If you can't play chess, don't sit at the table.
UNAPOLOGETICALLY Sign Me, Neal Jensen
Hey Allen, think for a second on this quote and the CONTEXT of the truth that it means ;
"..They are the gatekeepers. They are guarding all the doors, they are holding all the keys. Which means that sooner or later, someone is going to have to fight them."
How much competent advice and help did these guys have from seasoned strategists and tacticians that understand the 4GW warfare mindset in USE TODAY? they went off to this thing blindly halfcocked purely on emotional impetus, with no clue and no plan and no strategy.
Enough said.
Finicum was a hero, but he gave his life foolishly for NOTHING in return, he didn't even attain martyr status, but he Is a statistic and a PR coup for TPTB.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
Amateurs with no experience, no clue and a boat load of groupthink feel good ideas don't FIGHT wars, they don't even get to enter the fray with their "good intentions", but they certainly do help legit fighters to lose them by being the enemies best ally.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
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