We are two different countries. This proves it.
Abortion doctor: Tiller killing a hate crime
Decries 'anti-choice domestic terrorists'
By Julia Duin
Monday, June 8, 2009
Nebraska abortion doctor LeRoy Carhart called on the federal government Monday to treat all activities by "anti-choice domestic terrorists" as hate crimes after last week's fatal shooting of Dr. George Tiller.
Equivalent of THIS?
"This is the equivalent of Martin Luther King being assassinated," he said of the killing of one of the nation's best known late-term abortion doctors. "This is the equivalent of Pearl Harbor, the sinking of the Lusitania and any other major historic event where we've tolerated the intolerable for too long."
Scott P. Roeder, 51, has been charged with first-degree murder and two counts of armed criminal action in the Tiller case.
Equivalent of THIS?!?
"I think there is absolutely no difference in putting a cross in front of a person's home because of what race they belong to than there is putting a cross in front of our homes because we do abortions," he said.
Pro-life protestors had put crosses in front of Dr. Tiller's Wichita, Kan. clinic, he said, adding that he was one of three physicians who rotated in every three weeks to assist in providing late-term abortions.
EQUIVALENT OF THIS?!?!?
In town for a memorial service at National City Christian Church in honor of Dr. Tiller, Dr. Carhart, 67, spoke Monday under the auspices of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice, which encompasses 40 denominations and religious groups.
"Tonight is the night to honor Dr. Tiller for what he contributed to society," he said. "We all lost something when Dr. Tiller died."
Dr. Carhart would not talk about whether he had federal marshal protection, although at least one person accompanying him appeared to be part of a security detail. He said he did not have marshals protecting him before Dr. Tiller's killing.
EQUIVALENT OF THIS?!?!?
Horseshit.... That is the prefect word for it. 30 million babies and counting, and he thinks he's having to tolerate the intolerable?Where do they get these historically ignorant, nanny-state nit-wit style zombies, anyway? I guess cloning has come farther than one would imagine.....I feel like i'm in that old "B" movie, "They Live". Just take a close look at Hillary Clinton and tell me i'm wrong!.......mthead
And the gun rights activists (of which I am one) have never used hyberbole?
The SSI and 3pers represent an umbrella that a lot of us can use (and are using) to bring like-minded folks together. Without the destructive polarization of partisanship.
Hardcore conservatist religion is equally as divisive IMHO. As soon as someone starts going on about Jesus I tune out as do others.
Not saying you're wrong, we all know what opinions are worth. But for me, personally, I believe my freedom and independence begins with my person and radiates out from there.
Feel free to pursue whatever religious belief gives you faith and makes you want to be a better person.
Just give me the freedom to follow my own beliefs. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one. But don't refuse others the freedom of choice to do so under medically acceptable conditions.
I'm not in favor of murdering doctors. There should have been a political solution to all of this as a Congressional reaction to Roe v. Wade by the late 1970's.
R-v-W will not be overturned by this government. First trimester abortions should be allowed because women should have control over their bodies and lives. Early abortions are not dangerous to the mother. I could see this as a "public interest" law.
At some point, the woman has gone past the point of casually ending the pregnancy. Is it 4 months? After the time, the baby should be carried to term in most cases barring a genuine serious medical danger to the mother.
Federal Law should recognize the fetus as "a person" after the legal time of casual termination has passed. State laws should be synchronized.
The problem is that people feel strongly about this issue and they are not being heard. When there is no impeachment possible, assassination is the traditional way of overturning a government.
The man who did the deed is obviously a true believer in his cause, not a terrorist or a coward.
A terrorist would have blown up the whole congregation, and a coward would have shot himself immediately after doing his job.
It's not the "moral equivalent of war", it's more a private form of vigilante justice. The shooter has decided that the price of his own life is a fair one to stop the few years of work left to the doctor.
I don't agree, but I understand.
I am beginning to think these people WANT an armed revolution. Somehow the death of millions of oppressive politicians, working police, dutiful soldiers, and DELUSIONAL collectivists will prove to them that we, the defenders of freedom, are evil.
In their own way, they have become as radicalized as the terrorists they so deeply fear.
The sheer idiocy and audacity of this loon's leftist ravings boggles the rational mind. . . .
More proof that liberalism IS a mental illness - and pretty much untreatable except with extreme prejudice...
Anyone who can accept the SLAUGHTER of an unborn child, has no problem with the slaughter of political opponents.
There are people today who have not yet grasped the reality that America is galloping toward tyrannical facism.
They are, by defintion, fools!
I would like to point out that Ann Coulter's column last week, said that 5 abortionists have been killed by anti-abortionists, and 49million babies have died from abortion. Yet the socialists are enraged if anyone approaches their holy grail, filled with blood of innocents. My personal belief only, G*d is going to destroy this nation because we allowed this to happen. Anyone else can believe anything they like, fine with me. But I have read the Old Testament, and the G*d of Abraham,Jacob, and David does not slumber, or change.
Why Tiller being killed is sad. I have personally not lost any sleep over it. And in no way is this man's death even close to Pearl Harbor. I'm suprised he didn't say it was like 9/11. The fact that they have killed more children than most wars do should be an event that we can no longer tolerate but we do. I wonder what the conversation was like when Tiller got to the pearly gates and stood before the judgement bar of God?
I'm not particularly interested in the abortion issue - to me the issues of liberty vs. tyranny are far more important. However, this incident, and the reactions to it, require comment.
Take a gander at a Planned Parenthood ad from 1964: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2261931/posts
Note that it says that "An abortion kills the life of a baby after it has begun." IOW, it was a true family planning (i.e. contraception) organization at that point. They did not rabidly support the literal murder of close-to-term babies that present no threat to the health or life of the mother. Now, of course, they do. This guy Tiller actually performed the murders, over 60,000 I heard.
The blood of 60,000 on his hands - and he is defended as some kind of hero. Disgusting beyond belief. The other side has gone WAY over the edge, particularly when comparing the lives of 5 dead "doctors" to the multiple tens of thousands that they, themselves killed.
I am NOT talking about the early-term abortions - strictly about the late-term ones, the ones where the baby would almost certainly survive outside of the womb. That is the point well beyond which most people can stomach the idea of abortion, and well beyond which a woman knows she's pregnant and should decide - quickly - to keep the child or not. Go beyond that point, in my view, and the woman loses her right to take an action because that action would infringe upon the rights of another - unless the mother's life was in danger.
The reaction of the Left on this issue, this particular case, is so out of touch with reality (they act like this happens all the time, and like all conservatives welcomed it), and so out of touch with any reasonable morality that I can only say that it approaches literal lunacy.
Imagine, they favor the taking of an utterly innocent human life literally while the mother is going through labor, YET they just as strenously fight to save the life of mass murderers (Ted Bundy & Manson types, not Tiller types). I have to simply wonder at the sanity of such people.
Oh, and the equating of Tiller's murder (which IS a murder and should be punished as such) with Pearl Harbor, rightly deserves the response of "HORSESHIT!"
I'm at a loss as to how the writer equates being an abortionist to being a member of a racial or ethnic group.
One does not choose his racial or ethnic background.
I'm guessing that Mr. Roeder will probably receive the death penalty for his action and, if there is a hereafter, Mr. Tiller is probably busy comparing notes with Doctor Mengeles and his circle of friends.
"If you don't believe in abortion, just don't have one"
That is the most juvenile, lefty sort of argument I've heard so far, to which I ask are you willing to take it all the way?
"If you don't believe in killing abortion doctors, just don't kill one"
"If you don't believe in slavery, just don't own one"
"If you don't believe in polygamist marriage, just don't do it"
Here's an interesting graph depicting anti-abortion violence:
Let me see if I can get this right. Islamic jihadi's are no longer terrorists but American citizens are? Right, wrong, or indifferent, it was murder plain and simple. Tiller's death was an assination but Pvt. Long's was what?
And why hasn't President Obongo enven akcnowledged the death of Pvt. Long? I'm sure this oversight will endear him to the troops and make them want to give their all for him.
At least we know what lable will be applied to us in the future. The victors usually get to write the history books. Let's make sure it is us.
Those explosions, in your pics, that's the heads of the abortion lovers exploding when they lose one of their own... Boo-Hoo, a murderer gets murdered, seems to me like there is some serious poetic justice at work here...
Hey there simple man, what about the baby's choice, or doesn't that fall under your "rules?". And I didn't mention Jesus, you did. You seem to be more concerned with ditching the Christians because they might express the freedom of beliefs you hold so dear, contrary to your own murderous ways. Don't worry, I'll never preach to you, or any of your buds, but I'll never turn my back on you either, because if slaughtering helpless children is on your menu, I ain't hungry. Lots of luck with that sideways philosophy. Tune me out?
I am not certain if it was Aquinas who elaborated on the Pauline teaching that sin corrupts mental soundness and depravity removes judgment, but this type of stupidity would certainly bear witness to that teaching. A man who embraces and lovingly practices the murder of defenseless children, and who praises another child murderer as being a hero, has obviously abandoned any sense of morality and willingly gone into the madness of total depravity.
No one with a shred of intellect would dare compare the horror of Pearl Harbor with a child killer reaping what he had sown ( or, if one prefers a Hindu paradigm, the karmic circle of justice closing on the instigator of the evil).
What a total freaking idiot. May Tiller save this guy a place in Hell.
Oh and I love that warped logic exemplified by Simple Man -
"If you don't want an abortion, don't have one". I thought people had let that meaningless expression die a natural death long ago.
Don't believe in slavery? Don't own a slave, but don't interfere with me if I want a few of my own..
Don't believe in honor killing? Don't kill your daughter for talking to the wrong person... but don't condemn me for beheading one of my wives.
Don't believe in shooting abortionists? Don't shoot one - but don't judge that guy for doing what HE believed in. We DO want to be consistent, don't we?
Bottom line - morality is not relative, and abortion is never medically necessary.
Abortion is the issue the Left uses to divide us.
Because it works.
There is an excellent chapter on the issue in the novel _Hope_ by Aaron Zelman and L. Neil Smith.
"Abortion doctor: Tiller killing a hate crime" - Isn't walking in and blowing some guys shit away already a crime? Are they gonna execute him twice because it's a hate crime?
I'm very anti-abortion, but damn if I want to go shoot people. Late term abortions are the worst. As an RN I've helped deliver preemie kids younger than what those guys kill.
The whole Roe v Wade decision should never have been a federal decision and gotten bounced back to the States to decide on their own. Would have saved a lot of trouble.
And just WTF is the -"Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice" ?
I agree with you that I personally don't like the idea of abortions. However I think it should defantly be at a local level where this choice is made whether pro a womans choice or pro letting the baby have a choice one day.
The way I look at it, if I'm right and God thinks Abortion is a Sin they will have to deal with God one day. Thats between those who get an Abortion and Him. If at a local level a community wanted to make it illegal thats their choice. I just don't like a national government deciding things that should be decided locally.
I agree that late term abortions are murder ... the child would be able to live if someone was allowed to adopt it after an induced miscarriage ... if someone will adopt and pay for pre-mature birth care, then the child should be allowed to live.
But the folks who insist on absolutism need to answer this question:
How far will you go?
Refer all miscarriages to a grand jury?
Make pregnancy tests mandatory to prevent women from getting abortions abroad?
Forbid women from strenuous exercise to prevent spontaneous abortions?
If you are serious about prenting early term abortions, you will have to chattelize women to make it stick.
Kristopher, there ARE people willing to pay for that care, and for the costs of adoptions, in nearly every city in America. They're generically called crisis pregnancy centers, and they've been in existence since the '70s. You've probably never heard of them though, because the government funds abortion clinics, not crisis pregnancy centers (can't mix that church and state, ya know).
And please, don't make the "every child a wanted child" mistake. A person's life and liberty do NOT depend on where they are, how old they are, nor whether they are "wanted" of not. That way leads to such idiot ideas as letting paqrents decide whether they want their child up until the age of two. Or the children to decide whether they want the parent after the age of 75 or 80. And face it, those ideas are floating around our culture even today.
BTW, miscarriages and abortions are not equivalent. And "chattelizing women"? Oh brother... But someone else can go after you about that one.
Here is a consistent position: Don't stick your nose into a dispute you are not a party to. If you are not the intended victim of slavery, honor killing, or abortion, you have no standing to take legal action. Butt out and take your belief in the white man's burden with you. Abortion is an issue the Right uses to prove they aren't serious about separation of church and state.
I had to look up Leftist to see what I was being accused of. Juvenile? At times, absolutely. But Leftist? From Wikipedia:
"Social progressivism is another common feature of the modern Left, particularly in the United States, where social progressives advocated the abolition of slavery, women's suffrage, civil rights, and multiculturalism.
Progressives have both advocated prohibition legislation and worked towards its repeal. Current positions associated with social progressivism in the West include opposition to the death penalty, legal recognition of same-sex marriage, distribution of contraceptives, public funding of embryonic stem-cell research, and the right of women to chose abortion.
Public education is a subject of great interest to social progressives, who support higher standards in science and mathematics education, comprehensive sex education, and making condoms available to high school students. Social progressives are also anti-racist."
What happens if I'm only on-board with some of the agenda? Ah well. Personal attacks are too slippery to waste too much time rebutting.
So please refer to me in the future as a sometimes juvenile acting toad (or whatever) with Leftist tendencies.
Actually I might be the guy you do want watching your six. If there's a choice between taking a bullet 'tween the shoulder blades and having someone with useful skills but whose dogma I disagree with guarding my back; we'll debate dogma later, please keep me alive.
I am a moral relativist. I don't understand how that makes me evil. If all parties are of consenting age and agreeable to the arrangement what is wrong with plural marriage. In the current economic paradigm it makes sense to me to have 2 people outside the home bringing in income while still having a family member at home raising the kids and hopefully homeschooling them. Just because I don't choose it for myself doesn't make it morally wrong to me.
Murdering my neighbor because he wakes me up mowing his lawn at 5am on a Saturday morning I find morally wrong. Murdering an enemy combatant in a war I don't find morally wrong.
I do apologize for dragging Christ into this. I was simply trying to point out one area that ultra-conservatives can be just as exclusionary as ultra-leftists. IMO, at least, to my own disadvantage and that of others.
I'll defend your 1st amendment rights and freedom to believe in the God of your choice as I believe in the Constitution as Rule of Law.
But I digress from the original topic and apologize to Mike for that. Comparing the murder of an abortionist to the loss of life sustained by our soldiers at PH is absurd.
Sorry to take up so much bandwidth. I'm out of this discussion. Looking forward to any rational discourse or disagreement to learn from.
If Mike allows this post of what is obviously an unpopular position my esteem for the man just grows so much more.
I rather like consistency.
If somebody has an abortion it seems to be no problem.
If somebody kills a mother and her unborn child in a drunk driving incident the persecutor will most likely seek charges for double homicide as the case should be.
So which is it lefties?
Also I appreciate the comments about those on the left that have so little appreciation for the life of unborn children which more than likely have little appreciation for any human life. I call this the psychopathic mindset that dominates those that seek power within the halls of government (left and right). Humans as a means to and end.....
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