Discussion of whether I should go to -- and get arrested in -- WA state.
Since I posted "In timor veritas" on Friday, I have been inundated with negative comments -- by email, phone and in person -- on my participation in the 7 February I Will Not Comply action at the WA state house. They cover a lot of concerns, but most are like this one:
I don't understand how you getting arrested will help anything. For better or worse, many people probably think not open carrying guns in public buildings is a "reasonable" restriction. Now if they forcibly arrest you during a rally for clearly utilizing free speech that's different, but I just am thinking this is one battle worth losing in order to succeed in the overall war. Who would take over the blog for one? I just don't think that this is a smart move at all tactically.
What about a massive open carry rally to the edge of the ok zone? I.E. right outside the capital. You could emphasize that all these guns are here and not one person has been shot and killed yet.
I don't know, I am sure you have thought this through. I guess I am just ensuring due diligence review of this strategy to get arrested which I believe has more cost than benefit.
I have thought this through, and I am submitting it to God in prayer that risking arrest is the right thing to do. Of all the criticisms -- friendly and unfriendly -- I have received, this one from Bob Wright caused me the most thought and reflection:
Mike,
While I am intrigued by the proposed armed civil disobedience in Washington state, and at least partially agree with some of the reasoning behind it I wish to share some of the concerns this proposed course of action brings to my mind and offer a few thoughts on other consequences likely to manifest themselves in the execution of this demonstration.
I agree with the concept of pushing this course to a point the media can no longer ignore the armed demonstrations that have grown over the years. I agree that this type of event could bring a spotlight on to the whole trend,( but only if properly managed.) And by managed I mean in the planning, execution and the handling of the aftermath.
Bob Wright, Palominas, AZ, 2005.
In 2005, at the onset of the Minuteman Project, 4 dedicated leaders and myself handled the physical execution of the mission. We were responsible for maintaining the operation on an operational and tactical basis. This included the assignment of personnel, setting up observation posts, gathering, collating and analysis of intelligence, housing, medical and logistics issues. In addition was the need to interface with local law enforcement and elected officials. Another essential duty was dealing with media . While we all prefer to do the physical stuff, the exciting stuff, the dangerous stuff the need for a talented person to deal with the media was essential to the success and continued survival of the Minutemen. Those who wound up filling that billet were often bitterly disappointed to be removed from other duties more exciting and satisfying.In spite of their disappointment they served in the position from which the most good for the mission! They were as essential to the success of the project as any Minuteman , Line leader of Area supervisor. In some ways more essential as the physical exertions of those Magnificent Minutemen would have been fruitless without those peoples skills that allowed what the troops were doing to be conveyed in such a manner as to explain the true nature and intent of the Project, dispel the lies and the calumny perpetrated by our foes and put the noble human face on those Patriots in the field. It was a thankless job that broke the hearts of one such person and diminished the personal satisfaction of the others. But they served the cause.They served where they could best further the cause.
Looking at the Washington operation I feel, most strongly, that your participation should be limited as far as risking arrest. I feel that you have a responsibility to the movement and the III%. As that Kerodin fool established really bad people want to piggyback on , or take over the III% movement. I believe whole-heartedly that without your clear expressions of the philosophy and direction of the Real III% we will see this movement fall into the disrepute that individual espouses. As I see it, and I think most of the III% will agree, your mission is to continue to provide that clear definition that has kept the III% on track and has built the movement to the point that it has arrived. You have hundreds who are building their own understandings and philosophies based on the history , context and insight you provide in the turmoil that is political America. You have made plain the noble origins of this movement and made clear that intent to preserve and restore the founders vision for ALL Americans. Who, would you recommend that may replace you should things go bad?
Who, could provide the narrative that would illustrate and bring to light the historic and ethical correctness of this demonstration? Who?
My friend, your job is not to go get arrested and while I know that just eats you up you are a victim of your own talent. You, as I, are condemned to serve where we may best serve the cause. As you well know that can change over time as it has for you. Some critics may charge that you “Must Lead from The Front” or you have no credibility. I would just about bet those who say that have never actually lead any one. While there is validity in the old saw “never ask a subordinate to do something you would not do yourself”, you fulfilled that requirement a decade ago my old friend. You lead from the front for more than a decade. Face to face with Fed Monsters, Nazis, Kluckers , writ writers. I know…I was with you.
No sir! Your Job is to continue to define and illustrate as only your pen can what the III% is all about. To continue to give voice to the shining nobility that all III%ers have but few can express. More and more you are being compared to Sam Adams and I for one feel it is a just comparison. Without Adams the revolution might never of been or might have been far less noble in it’s intent and result. But we must remember that Sam did NOT physically take part in the Boston Tea Party or any of a hundred other “demonstrations” he was responsible for. He like you chaffed at that limitation but knew…as you must know…had a much different way to serve the noble cause.
Bob Wright.
Wow. Where to start? First off, I AM going to WA state if I can arrange the logistics. Second, I have the utmost confidence in the common sense and competence of the leadership of the I Will Not Comply folks on the ground out there, including Anthony Bosworth and Kit Lange. I had the chance to observe them up close from the inside of the operation back in December and would trust my life with them and their supporters. No ifs, ands, or buts. I have implicit trust that they will carry this off with every bit of skill, determination and success that they exhibited last month -- including their preparations to deal with agents provocateurs. I will also stipulate that am an exceedingly poor substitute for Sam Adams and thus I am not as convinced as Bob that I am "irreplaceable."
The central question for me is how could I sit safely in Alabama and be impervious to this eloquent appeal? I could not, not and be true to everything that I believe, everything that I have sworn to uphold. So I am going. The only question is -- will I be arrested? I suppose that will be up to the "authorities" in WA state. Whatever happens, I suspect that the national press will no longer be able to ignore the NATIONAL armed civil disobedience movement afterward. And that is a result that the "authorities" who embrace citizen disarmament -- both in Washington state and nationally -- will not like, not one bit. In that -- in their fear that reveals the truth -- they cannot help themselves, for they are cowards and tyrants. And their attacks on liberty -- and, possibly, on those of us who resist that tyranny -- will make our point and sustain and further our larger cause. Thus it is worth the risk to me.
I invite your comments.
LATER: Seattle Times: Do as we say, not as we do.
22 comments:
Well done Bob. As always you have made use of the God given talent in explaining what others like myself can only burn around the edges. Thank you for your leadership and wisdom that you bring to any situation.
I will keep you in my prayers Mike, and please be careful in your endeavors.
It has rightly been said that the only true essential for an insurrection is that it not lose. Defeat comes in many shapes, Mr. V, but in this case probably the most serious loss to the cause of Liberty would be the loss of the moral high ground. To Bob Wright's point, that is one loss from which we cannot recover, and losing you would significantly increase that risk.
Studying the manner in which the Leninists co-opted the Russian Revolution leads me to conclude that the hardest thing is not going to be winning the fight against statist totalitarianism, but in preventing an immediate coup d'etat by some fellow traveler after the forces of evil are on the run. That is what we must prevent, and you are one of the very few people who can help prevent it. You know that is a serious risk.
This is a war of ideas at its base, and the Forces of Freedom have very few fighting on that battlefield. You must follow your own conscience on this issue, but if you go, I would not engage in armed disobedience. That would play into the hands of the Bad People.
There is far too much at stake for you to allow yourself the luxury of yielding to patriotic personal sentiment.
I believe that only you, the one person who has more experience in this than any of us, can make the call. However, i hope you can post some actions we can perform should you get arrested. In other words: How can we help? I also hope that a few people there in WA. will be live feeding to either "UShare" or you-tube to keep us all abreast to what is happening by the minute, as media reports cannot be trusted. A patriot attorney ( is that an oxymoron?) waiting in the wings may not be bad idea either. Whatever you decide, Godspeed. You've taught me a lot these past couple of years I've been reading this blogsite, and although the one guarantee in life is change, I'm not ready for that yet
You should go get arrested. It will show that you are willing to put your life on the line and that you are willing to risk your skinny ass instead of hiding behind your key board and egging others on at no risk to yourself. It will also constitute the only actually brave thing, any of us have ever seen you do. That's why I think you will "punk out" and hide under your bed till any and all possible risk to you has passed, just like you always do. Like the "Bundy Ranch", you won't get anywhere near Washington 'till all danger has passed. You have NO intent to "go get arrested" because you are a self serving blow hard and a coward. The only thing you seem to really care about is getting your name in the NY Times. You want the III% to take you seriously? Put YOUR precious ass on the line, or shut the fuck up about things we all know you will NEVER do. If you believe any of the "You are too important" Bull Shit, then you need your meds adjusted. Put up or Shut up old man. Or just crawfish away from danger like you always do. In the old west they called guys like you "tin horns"---Ray
Don't go. I know of cases where Fedzilla has been particularly vindictive, and meted out unofficial punishment by withholding medication and treatment for prisoners. They will "forget" that a prisoner is a diabetic, for example, and throw him in some obscure sub-basement cell for a week or two, and when the "unfortunate error is discovered," there are devastating, permanent health consequences. Fedzilla does not play by the Queensbury rules.
I am worried about you going, but I think I understand why you feel you must.
I believe that arrest is just one worry; and maybe not the most important one. You are not a mosquito - an irritant, you are a regular PIA, and that is NOT an insult.
You actually make a difference which makes you a danger. I disagree that if something happens to you Sipsey would continue - as it is.
God places people - at times - in positions where they will do the most good, and I believe you are one of them.
But a bit of realtime and immediate protection would not hurt if you would/could, arrange it to be there with you. The constitutional lawyer on site and available is another good start, live feed "filming", reliable - on our side - witnesses to all events that occur, etc.
Stay Safe, and hopefully, detention free. Getting arrested will mean much less to the movement as it will show that you can be arrested by the traitors. Much better to NOT be arrested and still exercise your natural rights while getting media coverage of the event itself.
God Bless!!
May as well walk into a local elementary school with an AK47, in both cases your going to be dealing with scared children. All gun free zones infringe on liberty, a state house, a court house, a university campus, Costco, etc.... Adam Kokesh chose Washington DC's Freedom Plaza as his place to take a stand with his shotgun in his July 4th 2013 YouTube video. That got him three months in jail. No need to spend the money to go to Washington state, just grab a rifle and march through the University of Alabama campus.
If you do get arrested, you'd better have a big pile of money available to bail out of jail and for lawyers, else you better plan on getting used to the WA winters for a long time.
In other words, I don't think you should deliberately try to get arrested. I think you're smarter than that.
- Old Greybeard
Ray -- David Codrea, whose comment on the larger issue I will be posting shortly, advises me by email: "And you can add that I consider 'Ray' to be a lying piece of shit and a coward, and if he doesn't like it, he's free to seek me out and tell me all about it."
An email comment from Jacki Juntti, who sent it along with my link to her mailing list and asks me to post it:
Every battle in history has been won or lost by people who either STAND or those who cower. Scripture is filled with these kind of examples. If you FEAR the enemy then you have handed the ENEMY the WIN without any action on your part. Let me remind you of how David took out Goliath and his army with a rock and a slingshot and NO FEAR.
The massive effort to take our guns is being done by the same ENEMY (SATAN). It is the same game plan that has been used over history to kill off in whatever way possible those who stand for their beliefs (Christians).
No war is fought and WON by walking backwards or turning and running. If you say you believe in the 2nd Amendment then it is ALL or NOTHING. The Bill of Rights is not buffet where you pick and choose those parts you want and leave those you don't want.
This is a great TEST by the ENEMY (the GUN TAKERS) - testing the resolve of those who say they are PRO-GUN and 2nd Amendment.
Mike Vanderboegh has stood strong for so many of us - now it is time to STAND WITH HIM - no try to convince him to stay home.
"The Israelites got tired of fighting and tried peaceful coexistence with the Canaanites. It didnÂt work. There is no peaceful coexistence with evil. Communism is a moral cancer, and you cannot peacefully coexist with cancer. If you donÂt get the cancer, the cancer will get you." - Vance Havner
A reminder to go to Sipsey Street Blog page and scroll down the right hand side to find how to contribute $$$ to help Mike with expenses.
I would second Mr. Bracken's post. Thomas Paine did not shoulder a musket. But his words had enough power to help sustain those who did.
And, Mr. Mike, get your book published! You are sitting on a gold mine and it will not only financially sustain you and yours, but it will also be another spark that lights a fuse long extinguished here in this flaccid, complacent, Godless country.
Dutchman, I've seen you put your flesh on the line at the Bundy ranch, so I need no convincing that you're ready to do it again. I agree with Dave Codrea's comments on Ray. Might just be an agent looking to suck you out there. I'm sure the Feds. still have a big hard-on for ya from the Bundy Ranch incident..
Why wouldn't the media continue to ignore any arrest of open carry demonstrators? Not seeing the argument that the media would be forced to cover anything. If they did cover it it would of course be covered with their spin on it.
Ain't gonna change a darn thing.. There is only one way to free ourselves from this slavery, and standing around in the cold to be used in the media as extremist puppets ain't the way to get the job done.. If you gonna be labeled an extremist might as well give em a good enough reason...
Mike..Not withstanding I have to agree with you..there will be a Time that we all need to STAND and Fight, maybe get arrested maybe NOT! That is not the issue, If its not WA is it Conn or NY or wherever else? I admire you and read all you write. and recite it to as Many People as I Can...I too am not wealthy or In good Health, but I have resolved to fight these Bastards, if its at a Statehouse or on my front Porch..Gods Speed and Know you are Right!!!
Semper Fi
Hey Dutchman- Listen to Matthew Bracken, David Codrea and the others giving you good, sound advice. Don't go, and don't get arrested by the Feds or the locals.
Consider this consequence, and put
others (namely your readers and supporters) before yourself !! If you go and are arrested, who will carry on writing for this site ??
Who will keep your readers and supporters informed about what's going on on a regular basis ??
You serve more of a purpose doing what you do on here than you would by making an appearance and winding up incarcerated and involved in lengthy, dragged out,
Fed bull shit court proceedings.
Such a course of action, and letting them sucker you into such
circumstances, is handing them a big win that will affectively shut you up !! Just what they want to do !!
I thought you were smarter than that and would heed the old saying, 'Pride goeth before a fall.'
For myself, I always try and not react the way an enemy expects!!
If they expect me to get pissed off and angry and raising my voice, I try and keep my cool and speak softly and calmly. Such a reaction fucks with their heads more.
A lot of people that aren't in a position like yours, with a large following and a degree of notoriety and some connections with well known people periodically in the news, are waging their own individual battles with the overbearing and over-reaching Fed asshats. Those battles are taking place all over the country. You just don't hear much, if anything, about them in the 'controlled' news media.
So do everyone a favor and use your head. Don't go. Don't get arrested and gagged. Stay away and keep writing and being a big pain in their collective asses !!
From another Dutchman
You've got a lot of guts Mike. We need them. May God keep you protected.
Mike,
Bottom line, up front: I do not advise going.
Reason: prosecutors will go to extra ordinary lengths for your proverbial scalp. Your past successes have embarrassed them (as a group of collectivists). Collectivists do not forgive being embarassed, though they have much to be ashamed of.
Assumptions:
If arrested, I assume that you will be treated to a full-on Soviet style "psychiatric" detention. This will be used to isolate you from your family and support systems.
No matter what happens afterward, the Regime will be able to use that to discredit you and your work.
They will not grant you a show trial.
The possibility is not zero that if it comes to arresting you, they will use some force techniques that may be hazardous to your well being, and chalk it up to "officer safety", with exoneration, awards and promotion for the arresting "officers".
There is a reason that the Company Commander does not walk "point". You see the occasional Colonel or General getting out in front for "battlefield circulation", but that is actually just more dangerous for the troops they visit (IMHO).
You have been there, done that. Judgement, perception and wisdom are best employed at some remove so that you can ensure the issue is decided even before the opposition knows it is happening.
Whatever path you decide, go with God.
The way to play this is pretty simple.
You go. Being out of state, you function as moral support and be there in the thick of it documenting it all.
The best part - they expect you armed and if they arrest you, stop and search you thinking you are concealing, they get nailed for fourth violation.
It's sickening watching all this crap that your intent is to be arrested. We have two battles here - state level and federal level. It's not yet time for across state lines complication. Well, not not time, just that's a different argument than what this gathering focuses on.
How about folks try this -
The INTENT is to EXERCISE RIGHTS!
We will never witness success if we let the enemy control the parameters of debate. Like "assault weapon". Why do we USE this false term? We shouldn't use it. And we shouldn't fall victim to surrendering INTENT either.
Stop taking the false premise bait!
Sir,
You are a Patriot, in the truest definition of the word.
Please understand, there are far to few who have the gift of word. Far to few who can speak their words open others minds. God has granted you numerous gifts, possibly the greatest is communication. Use that while you can. Sway the fence sitter, strengthen the weak willed, convince the masses and shame the turncoat...
If that is from a cell or your home, that choice is yours...But please remember, the regular media is not interested in helping us or you, at all...If you are in a cell, everything will be done to ensure your voice is NEVER HEARD AGAIN.
God Speed.
While I respect your courage, I disagree with your confrontational tactics.
The liberal-left media, which is 90% of it and where most people still get their news, would like nothing better than to show some scary white men displaying guns and getting arrested by brave agents of the state.
A large portion of the population is frightened of us. Provoking confrontations causes them to demand more protection from the government.
The more successful you are in getting the attention of the media, the more you set back the gun rights movement.
For every 2nd Amendment supporter you inspire, five to ten frightened sheep will exercise their right to vote against us or write their representatives or join an anti-gun group.
At this time, I believe our victories will come in the courts, in some red states and possibly in congress. But in the media? Not a chance.
The game is rigged. Don't play it.
"A large portion of the population is frightened of us. Provoking confrontations causes them to demand more protection from the government."
Which is logically absurd and funny if you think about it since far more people die in vehicles on the streets yet there are no protest groups calling for the heads of local car dealers, cries for NATO to bomb car factories, etc. We accept the statistical certainy of dying in our cars (compared to other chances of dying out there) as a given of the society we live in so we don't have to live like the Amish unless we choose to but we cannt accept private indivudals owning guns, oh no sir.
We accept having fresh teens get into multiple thousand pound machines of death but would never trust grown and responsbile men with firearms.
Post a Comment