Monday, September 15, 2014

Some praxis feedback. "We of the current generation of warfighters are very, very spoiled."

Reacting to my post, "Repacking 5.56 NATO reloads in military packaging -- bandoleers and stripper clips," an anonymous commenter said:
I can keep 180 rounds in six 30 round magazines, held in a double stack six pocket magazine holder strapped to molle vest or pack. I understand stripper clips, but I'll take a fully loaded mag in a pinch.
Indeed. Many folks, myself included, have a "Ready Box" for each rifle. In the case of AR series rifles, that's usually a three pocket, six-mag bandoleer like this one packed in a PA-108 SAW can:
For AKs, I use a Chinese five-pocket magazine bandoleer like this, also packed in a SAW can:
But you cannot, nor should you, pre-pack all your reserve ammunition in magazines. The question is, what do you do when that initial 180-rounds is exhausted (as it could certainly be in one firefight)? And even if you were able to load many magazines in like fashion ahead of time, what happens when you are asked to resupply ammo to a neighbor who has a Ruger Mini-14? Using the military duplicate packaging in the post allows you to pack large amounts of ammunition that is still ready to load in those magazines -- of whatever type -- when they empty out and in a much faster fashion than bulk boxes.
Responding to my post on sandbags and Improvised Resupply By "Speedball," a veteran of four deployments in the Middle East and Southwest Asia wrote:
Not to extrapolate from my own inexperience (to paraphrase you), but I doubt the modern GI would have much experience with this method. Unless you had the opportunity to serve on a remote outpost in Afghanistan would you have need to rapidly resupply. I certainly never did, and my deployment experiences span the entire course of the GWOT.
In that respect, we of the current generation of warfighters are very, very spoiled. A few things have been written on just how spoiled we have been since Vietnam were each engagement was decided by superior small arms, CAS, and virtually inexhaustible indirect fire support. We have had some nasty conditions, but victories were pretty much in the bag from the start. Not to say that the Islamofascists were as a whole worthless. They had a few good ideas along the way. But even at their worst, they still were nothing compared to one Anzio, one Bunker Hill, or even one day of Chosen.
Now what does that mean for the current generation of warfare, be it with muzzies, the Chinese or the local Mutant Biker Gang? No one has retained this knowledge and so it would be wise to remember when victories are not so decisive from the start.

13 comments:

Anonymous said...

The redcoats got spoiled - thinking warfare had to have "rules" - not understanding that when Liberty itself is on the line, when survival itself is on the line - the "rules" go out the window.

Overthinking DOES have gubmint warfighters spoiled. And THATS exactly why we will defeat them in a live fire war if they ever decide it's a good idea to follow orders to turn those weapons WE PAID FOR upon us. Those not so spoiled will walk away, knowing its wrong to do so and all that will be left to do the fighting won't know what hit em or how to resound.

Biggest problem I have with your praxis musings -
I am waaay to poor to put the most important ones into practice. But I'm getting there little by little!

T. Paine said...

Hypothetically, say one has a 4 pocket double stack 30 round bandoleer at the ready at all times with lets say enough ammo to refill all mags after a fun trip to the range. Would that suffice?
As to the thoughts of resupplying a neighbor after he goes to the range, I find that comment ridiculous. All of our neighbors should be preparing now. Not after the fact. Ammo is again readily available in case you missed the first shortage.

Anonymous said...

Military Being Trained To Confiscate Guns And Shoot Americans

Published on Sep 15, 2014


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAEvqCFwL-w

Anonymous said...

Having spent some time with Jim SUllivan, the engineer that Fairchild assigned to work with Eugene Stoner in translating stoner's AR10 into a factory productible design, as well as being the actual designer of the AR-15 and the 5.56 cartridge. Jim also designed the Beta C-Mag, the 100 rd double drum mag, based on his Ultimax rifle design. To point: Jim indicated the orig AR-15 was desgined around 20 round mags, ie you build the mag first and then design the self-loading weapon around it, as the mag is a crude device and it's much easier to regulate the firearm's design to match the feed rate of the mag. During Vietnam, the army repeatedly asked for a 30 round mag and Stoner and Jim both knew it was a bad idea. The 30 rd mag has 50% more wgt on it's spring when full, and when near empty, the spring is extended nearly 50% more - so it's much much harder to maintain the feedrate of a 20 round mag. They finally acquiesced but in his indications to me, 85% of the 30 round mags out there are marginally reliable, at best. He indicated the big accomplishment of the Beta C-Mag was that, because of it's low tension torsion spring, it maintained the same feedrate from first to last round.

Back on point, storing mags fully loaded is not best for the springs - it will weaken them. If the mags will get up and running in the first couple of rounds, doubtful it won't misfeed in the last 20% of those rounds.

FWIW & YMMV

Anonymous said...

A little FYI for a generation unfamiliar with using stripper clips. They are a stone bitch to use under pressure. Even the five round M-1903 strippers want to bind, and the longer the clip the more likely it is to bind. Loading with a "clip adapter" is even worse, almost imposable to do in the dark or on the move. In fact the only way to reload quickly without a "clip guide" built onto the rife is "one round at a time" , just like you would WITHOUT the Stripper clip. The clip is a great way to organize and transport spare ammo, and a must for quick reloads in a 1903, Mauser, SKS or any of a number of now antique rifles, but they offer little else to the AR or AK driver.

Anonymous said...

For a while i was doing the 30 rd. mag thing, but i was always worried about weakening the spring. So i would switch the mags every few months, but that started getting a little tedious. Am i correct in worrying about losing spring pressure over time in fully loaded mags?

Anonymous said...

Anon,

Springs do not weaken in a compressed state, they weaken from repeated compression-expansion cycles

Informed42 said...

I have to chime in with my 2 cents
on a couple of things I read here. #1 is the young troopers comments about how today's troops are spoiled. Great admission, young man. My compliments on your honesty and admission. To your generation, I'm probably a dinosaur. Belgian Congo, Africa,
Middle East, Libya, Nepal, India,
S.E.Asia-'62-'63, Panama-1964. So
been a couple of places. I'm an old guy now, but we old guys that were in Viet Nam and a few other places learned to improvise and adapt a lot of things.
You can never have too many mags or too much ammo !! And you run low or out of ammo, you take what the enemy you killed has and use it against his buddies. Strip any and everything you can from a dead enemy troop if you have the time. He doesn't need it anymore. And take NO prisoners except to extract information from, and then dispose of them. It takes no man power to guard a body, and they don't consume your limited resources of food, water, medicine or anything else.
Addressing another comment- T.Paine thought on 'resupplying a neighbor' - unless you already know that that neighbor has or will stand with you and watch your back, don't even consider resupplying him with shit !! To me, neighbors that haven't prepared and come begging, will be the first ones to go.
As for any troops that decide to follow orders from the government and go against 'we the people', there are NO Rules of Engagement except our old ones. Kill the enemy by any and all available means. Come after me and I will kill you without any hesitation,
and I don't give a rat's ass what kind of uniform you're wearing.

I guess that's enough of my spouting off for now since I have to feed my dogs and do a few other things.

Stay safe out there, all.

Anonymous said...

To those that say stripper clips are to hard to use, get a strip lula. They work great and can even be used without the stripper clip to load your mag.

Anonymous said...

You should never have ammunition on your body that is not ready to use,I.E. already in a magazine.
Ammo in clips, stored in an ammo can is great for long term in the rear storage. Any speed balls or the like you may set up for a rapid resupply or post-fight top off, should be filled with pre-loaded mags and whatever other ordnance or supplied needed(MED,WATER,BATTS), in a ready-to-carry/fight configuration. Imagine surviving a fight and expending all 8 of your rifle mags. During the long and rapid hump back to the resupply point you discover you've dropped/lost/ate 3 of those 8 empty mags, maybe more. Good thing you have plenty of loose or clipped ammo in that speedball...

Paul X said...

In "Guerilla Days in Ireland", the IRA flying columns typically went to their ambushes with 40 rounds per fighter (using Lee-Enfields).

We are not going to be fighting like an army would. We are going to shoot and scoot. Anything else is suicidal. So maybe this business of using stripper clips is not that useful after all (although I have put a fair amount of ammo into clips - it can't hurt...)

Anonymous said...

Does any one know if emptied dog food bags could serve the same purpose as these sand bags ? Many pet owners likely get rid of their feed bags and these materials might be able to be repurposed. And they come free after the product is used - why not ?

Informed42 said...

Gentlemen, take heed of what Joseph Murphy and Anonymous had to say about Strip Lula's and MagLulas. They're very good to have and they're fast. You can use them with both ammo on stripper clips and loose rounds.
I guess that's why I just bought five more of them to have o hand in case a couple of friends want one.

Loading ammo on stripper clips and sticking it in an ammo can until you need it is fine.

As for being prepared for initial confrontations with multiple assailants (and there will be multiple assailants)you need loaded magazines and weapons capable of laying down a lot of firepower very fast. You're not going to get a lot of eight or nine hundred yard shots initially. And if it's after the shit hits the fan and society goes to hell, there will be marauders running rampant looking to steal what you have and do you serious harm or kill you.
What you need to be ready to do is kill as many of them as fast as you can so maybe they'll run to somewhere else looking for easier pickings.

AK's, SKS's, AR's, Carbines, and a number of other guns with high capacity magazines will do that.
For myself, I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 30+ 30 round mags for my AK's loaded plus a few drums. Drums are great. Load them up and leave them unwound until you need them.

Stay safe out there everyone, and keep on preparing.