As gun owners we all are asking for trouble form the left when we carry our ARs openly in a restaurant....yeah it would be nice to do so, but the reality is that we don't have to,,,that's what concealed carry is for....once again, given the political attacks on our rights, we only give these left wing wackos more ammo against us. We are a bunch of retards and anybody who thinks that this is going to secure our liberties is a jack ass, period. I own ARs, several of them and taking one of them to a restaurant is ridiculous. If you think that doing so is going to help the cause, you are wrong. It is no different than fags openly thrusting their life style in our faces...we don't need to do the same, especially with exercising our Constitutional Rights. Bunch of idiots, plain and simple. You guys are just begging for NY State/Connecticut-style restrictions placed upon you and if you think that this ends up anywhere else, maybe you are a bunch of dumb cowboys.
I agree. The "in your face" approach is a turn-off---whether it's a pop-up ad, alt lifestyle parading in tu-tu's, or long gun carry in my favorite BBQ joint. We need to make friends not enemies.
I've carried for over 50 years and no one other than close friends has ever realized I'm always armed.
A better approach, IMO, would be to have these same guys enter a restaurant with firearms concealed, enjoy a meal, and then pass out invitations to other patrons to visit the local range and learn about shooting and firearm safety. As Mom used to say, "You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar."
Even the Lairds of Fairfax are right once in awhile. Every time these open-carry rifle guys' picture gets taken with an SKS or an AR, fat and sassy in their tactical gear, it is a public-relations **WIN** for Bloomberg and the Nagging Moms, at absolutely NO COST to them.
I understand we have freedom, and will be first in line to defend it. But we have to understand the concept of "love your neighbor", as well, and also the basics of public relations, or we will LOSE.
I agree. It is weird and scary to carry almost any gun, especially an AR, openly into a restaurant. Besides, if your gun is not concealed, you give up the element of surprise if you're criminally attacked. If you carry in the open, you might as well have a sign saying "Shoot me first". If your gun is concealed, you have a better chance of defending yourself.
I would immediately be on highest alert the second I saw I someone - ANYONE - walk into a typical restaurant with a long gun. I would watch them like a hawk, while telling my family to finish their meal and GTFO now, the whole time making sure I had a clear sightline with them and ready draw-access to my carry piece.
There's just no damn reason to do this, people. We've NEVER been a country where folks openly carried a long gun all day whilst doing their normal, everyday suburban activities. Having a rifle in a gunrack in the back window of a truck is as close as things have EVER come to having long arms around in public, and most people won't blink at the sight of that.
But seeing two squirelly-looking guys stroll into a taco place with long guns is a whole other matter.
Yeah! The way to defend rights is to ummm hide the fact you exercise them. Yeah, that's it.
Don't exercise those rights openly! That's weird. Don't speak out loud - especially at places like restaurants. Make sure to only write and then only so nobody sees. No sayings on shirts or hey even bumper stickers. Can't be exercising those rights openly now.
The fudds sound more and more like their prog masters everyday.
You know why the fudds are so uptight about the patriots openly carrying? The fudds are recognizing that others are recognizing their progressive, loyalist, leanings. They are being exposed as the leftists that they really are by those daring to actually exercise RIGHTS. The fudds like the permissions.
Was the guy carrying the rifle named, Chuck Connors?
http://www.riflemanconnors.com/CC-bio/Lucas.JPG
Remember the fuss when Obama visited Phoenix and a black guy was open carrying an AR-15 outside the venue where Obama was speaking? Screw them if they can't take a joke. Texas needs to get with the program, Constitutional Carry. Open or concealed by anyone legal able to own a gun, anywhere they want to carry, no license required.
Mike, I must ask your indulgence for a few moments. I try not to use your site to argue with other of your readers, but this stuff just drives me crazy.
First, considering that this whole hoopla started because of a picture from a Dallas Chipotle, and Bloomberg's Mommies trolling their FaceBook page for "incriminating" pictures to use as nothing more than dishonest propaganda, it is clearly y'all bitchin' about those guys carrying their weapons who are hurting the cause. You're succumbing to the Mommies' propaganda campaign and fighting against brother and sister gun owners instead of our true enemies, the gun-grabbers of America.
Second, it would behoove you to conduct a minimal investigation into what actually happened before spewing what is so obviously ignorant and wrong rants against the OC'ers. Listen up:
THEY WERE INVITED TO BE THERE BY STORE MANAGEMENT!!!
They weren't forcing their demonstrations on anyone. They had been to that exact location many times before, had always sought and received permission from management before entering, and were never once asked by the store to leave. It was the Mommies who went to Corporate who turned this into any kind of "controversy" at all. Congratulations! You've been freakin' duped by a bunch of soccer moms who are new to the gun-grabber scene and have manipulated all you big, tough guys into wetting your freakin' pants at the sight of free men carrying their weapons out in front of God and everybody! Damn! What a bunch of freakin' pussies!
What most of you dumb asses probably don't know either, is that it is illegal in TX to OC a handgun. The local Chipotle manager was on the side of the demonstrators for many months prior to this thing exploding into a national story that you idiots have been manipulated by hook, line and sinker. The manager's Corporate bosses brought the hammer down, and s/he was left with no choice but to abide by that corporate decision, but s/he is most likely still on the side of the demonstrators, and you guys can't even muster the courage to give him/her just a little bit of cover along with people who are actively demonstrating for their rights to OC handguns instead of long guns.
You supposed "patriots" make me sick. You've shown as much guts and loyalty to the 2nd Amendment and Constitution as a bunch of gun-grabbing soccer moms have.
One last thing: I open carry for the tactical advantage. I conceal carried for 35 years before realizing that if I'm attacked, I'm already behind the curve before I have to react by drawing my weapon. My open carried weapon says to anybody who thinks I'm going to be a willing victim, "Think again asshole." That "element of surprise" bullshit is just that; bullshit. I surprise potential attackers with being openly armed. You surprise them after an attack has already commenced and you're behind the tactical curve. I choose the preemptive surprise, rather than the reactive, behind-the-curve surprise.
My apologies Mike. I won't make rants a habit, but sometimes the circular firing squad that gun owners are so anxious to form up around drives me to it. God Bless, I hope you're doing well.
Anonymous 731 you are right on the money. Invite people to the range and maybe free instructions and range fees. We need to make friends, not help our enemies. I live in the DFW metroplex and am hearing lots of negative talk over in your face activities. Do not be a jerk-Make a friend. Fred
Like it or not, when you carry an AR-15 in public, whether it be the local law enforcement, government, military, etc., you arte asking for trouble and you are going to get it, right or wrong . . . permission or not, legal or not, end of story.
None of us like this, but asking for trouble knowing the media will pounce at any chance they get, it stupid. Be smart to be able to come back and fight again...don't get killed in the eyes of public opinion where you will lose.
So pounding your chest as to how some are "unpatriotic" or "gun grabber soccer moms" is ridiculous because on the end, you will lose this battle and if you idiots keep it up, you'll go the same way NY, CT, Co, Ma, NJ is going...so be a tough guy rather than an armed smart guy...don't put in their faces like the fag cupcakes do.
Well I guess I will weigh in on this one too. I have fought all my adult life (I'm 60) to keep my firearm rights. While I agree that it is OK to carry open in public, I think going to a restaurant is a little over the top, and I ain't no "mommies campaigner" either. I enjoy carrying my handguns open or concealed depending on the situation and where I'm going. I have open carried in my home town bar. Walked in with an AR to a deer rifle. I go to the proprietor and check my firearms. It is a custom in Dakota Territory. I keep my handgun concealed most places, mainly because I do not like to attract attention to myself. You can argue tactical bullshit all you want to but if something is going down and they notice you are open carrying guess what? You're gonna be the first one to hit the floor and the slab at the morgue.
Going back to AK's in restaurants, I don't know why a manager/owner would invite people with AK/AR into his establishment and truthfully I don't give a damn. I won't do it and I would appreciate it if others wouldn't either. We are fighting desperately to keep ahead of those who would disarm and enslave us. I hate making their case for them by being a dumb ass. While we have freedom of speech we still can't yell fire in a theater.
If you want to make friends for your cause don't start by intimidation. I am not intimidated necessarily but if I don't know you I'm damn sure gonna keep my eye on you while I eat my steak ... safety off. GET IT!!!
Dakota, you mention that OC'ers will be the first ones shot when things go south. Considering that OC is ubiquitous in states like AZ, WA and MI, if that were true, you would be able to provide documentation for your assertion that is statistically significant enough to even consider as being valid rationale to base a tactical decision on.
Before leaving CA 22 years ago, I worked part-time in a gun store. Even there in CA we were allowed to OC, and every gun store I've ever been in before or since has several employees OC'ing, if not all of them. Why is it that so few gun store robberies during business hours ever happen? Could it conceivably be the deterrent factor of bad guys knowing that everyone in there is armed? I believe that OC provides such a deterrent. "Can" it happen the way you described? Sure, it can, but it can also cause thugs not to take the chance that they'll be rolled out on a gurney instead of on foot with a pocket full of easy money. Your concealed weapon has exactly zero potential to deter crime in any way, shape, manner or form.
You're promulgating a myth. There is no significant data available to substantiate your claim that OC'ers are shot more often than CC'ers. I, too, am 60, and I too abhor drawing attention to myself, but after thoughtful consideration of years of discussions I've had with regular OC'ers, plus Alabama clarifying the laws concerning the legality of OC just last August, I was convinced that I would be safer by OC'ing than by CC'ing. I have nothing against those who choose CC, but I do have something against myths and propaganda being substituted for valid, intellectually-honest scrutiny. That's what pissed me off about this comments thread - there was almost zero intellectual scrutiny being applied, and almost nothing but gun-owners spreading lies and propaganda that the Mommies are sitting back laughing at you for buying into.
Czar, I disagree that concealed carry provides ZERO deterrant. If the thugs KNOW that concealed carry is not only possible but indeed probable, a similar reaction to open carry does exist. Look to the batman shooter for evidence of it. He chose a theater farther from his position because it was a posted gun free zone.
The reality here is that what deterrent is produced either way IS NOT GERMANE to the factual point. The LIBERTY to decide open or concealed does not rest with government, the democratic vote or whether it's good or bad in relation to crime. It rests, by the highest declaration of law possible, with each INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE for themselves. Period.
That ummm SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
I agree with you friend in the points you bring especially about open carry. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter beyond personal perception. And that's not where our fight is best fought.
17 comments:
As gun owners we all are asking for trouble form the left when we carry our ARs openly in a restaurant....yeah it would be nice to do so, but the reality is that we don't have to,,,that's what concealed carry is for....once again, given the political attacks on our rights, we only give these left wing wackos more ammo against us. We are a bunch of retards and anybody who thinks that this is going to secure our liberties is a jack ass, period. I own ARs, several of them and taking one of them to a restaurant is ridiculous. If you think that doing so is going to help the cause, you are wrong. It is no different than fags openly thrusting their life style in our faces...we don't need to do the same, especially with exercising our Constitutional Rights. Bunch of idiots, plain and simple. You guys are just begging for NY State/Connecticut-style restrictions placed upon you and if you think that this ends up anywhere else, maybe you are a bunch of dumb cowboys.
"Constitutional rights" LOL
Shane
I agree. The "in your face" approach is a turn-off---whether it's a pop-up ad, alt lifestyle parading in tu-tu's, or long gun carry in my favorite BBQ joint. We need to make friends not enemies.
I've carried for over 50 years and no one other than close friends has ever realized I'm always armed.
A better approach, IMO, would be to have these same guys enter a restaurant with firearms concealed, enjoy a meal, and then pass out invitations to other patrons to visit the local range and learn about shooting and firearm safety. As Mom used to say, "You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar."
Even the Lairds of Fairfax are right once in awhile. Every time these open-carry rifle guys' picture gets taken with an SKS or an AR, fat and sassy in their tactical gear, it is a public-relations **WIN** for Bloomberg and the Nagging Moms, at absolutely NO COST to them.
I understand we have freedom, and will be first in line to defend it. But we have to understand the concept of "love your neighbor", as well, and also the basics of public relations, or we will LOSE.
Yet, the in-your-face approach has worked for gays.
I'm not suggesting it will work for Texas open carry.
I too think it unwise to take openly carried rifles to a restaurant.
The question is, why not protest, I dunno....YOUR GOVERNMENT....at their places of business instead?
If it's illegal to do so on the State Capitol or County Courthouse grounds...then do so in the boundary where it IS legal.
If trying to change the law is the goal, seems more appropriate to be getting in the face of the lawmakers.
I agree. It is weird and scary to carry almost any gun, especially an AR, openly into a restaurant. Besides, if your gun is not concealed, you give up the element of surprise if you're criminally attacked. If you carry in the open, you might as well have a sign saying "Shoot me first". If your gun is concealed, you have a better chance of defending yourself.
- Old Greybeard
I would immediately be on highest alert the second I saw I someone - ANYONE - walk into a typical restaurant with a long gun. I would watch them like a hawk, while telling my family to finish their meal and GTFO now, the whole time making sure I had a clear sightline with them and ready draw-access to my carry piece.
There's just no damn reason to do this, people. We've NEVER been a country where folks openly carried a long gun all day whilst doing their normal, everyday suburban activities. Having a rifle in a gunrack in the back window of a truck is as close as things have EVER come to having long arms around in public, and most people won't blink at the sight of that.
But seeing two squirelly-looking guys stroll into a taco place with long guns is a whole other matter.
This shit needs to stop.
These complete idiots just gave Bloomberg $50 million in anti-gun commercials...at no coat to him. Stupid asses!!!!
Yeah!
The way to defend rights is to ummm hide the fact you exercise them. Yeah, that's it.
Don't exercise those rights openly! That's weird.
Don't speak out loud - especially at places like restaurants. Make sure to only write and then only so nobody sees. No sayings on shirts or hey even bumper stickers. Can't be exercising those rights openly now.
The fudds sound more and more like their prog masters everyday.
You know why the fudds are so uptight about the patriots openly carrying? The fudds are recognizing that others are recognizing their progressive, loyalist, leanings. They are being exposed as the leftists that they really are by those daring to actually exercise RIGHTS. The fudds like the permissions.
Was the guy carrying the rifle named, Chuck Connors?
http://www.riflemanconnors.com/CC-bio/Lucas.JPG
Remember the fuss when Obama visited Phoenix and a black guy was open carrying an AR-15 outside the venue where Obama was speaking? Screw them if they can't take a joke. Texas needs to get with the program, Constitutional Carry. Open or concealed by anyone legal able to own a gun, anywhere they want to carry, no license required.
Mike, I must ask your indulgence for a few moments. I try not to use your site to argue with other of your readers, but this stuff just drives me crazy.
First, considering that this whole hoopla started because of a picture from a Dallas Chipotle, and Bloomberg's Mommies trolling their FaceBook page for "incriminating" pictures to use as nothing more than dishonest propaganda, it is clearly y'all bitchin' about those guys carrying their weapons who are hurting the cause. You're succumbing to the Mommies' propaganda campaign and fighting against brother and sister gun owners instead of our true enemies, the gun-grabbers of America.
Second, it would behoove you to conduct a minimal investigation into what actually happened before spewing what is so obviously ignorant and wrong rants against the OC'ers. Listen up:
THEY WERE INVITED TO BE THERE BY STORE MANAGEMENT!!!
They weren't forcing their demonstrations on anyone. They had been to that exact location many times before, had always sought and received permission from management before entering, and were never once asked by the store to leave. It was the Mommies who went to Corporate who turned this into any kind of "controversy" at all. Congratulations! You've been freakin' duped by a bunch of soccer moms who are new to the gun-grabber scene and have manipulated all you big, tough guys into wetting your freakin' pants at the sight of free men carrying their weapons out in front of God and everybody! Damn! What a bunch of freakin' pussies!
What most of you dumb asses probably don't know either, is that it is illegal in TX to OC a handgun. The local Chipotle manager was on the side of the demonstrators for many months prior to this thing exploding into a national story that you idiots have been manipulated by hook, line and sinker. The manager's Corporate bosses brought the hammer down, and s/he was left with no choice but to abide by that corporate decision, but s/he is most likely still on the side of the demonstrators, and you guys can't even muster the courage to give him/her just a little bit of cover along with people who are actively demonstrating for their rights to OC handguns instead of long guns.
You supposed "patriots" make me sick. You've shown as much guts and loyalty to the 2nd Amendment and Constitution as a bunch of gun-grabbing soccer moms have.
One last thing: I open carry for the tactical advantage. I conceal carried for 35 years before realizing that if I'm attacked, I'm already behind the curve before I have to react by drawing my weapon. My open carried weapon says to anybody who thinks I'm going to be a willing victim, "Think again asshole." That "element of surprise" bullshit is just that; bullshit. I surprise potential attackers with being openly armed. You surprise them after an attack has already commenced and you're behind the tactical curve. I choose the preemptive surprise, rather than the reactive, behind-the-curve surprise.
My apologies Mike. I won't make rants a habit, but sometimes the circular firing squad that gun owners are so anxious to form up around drives me to it. God Bless, I hope you're doing well.
CzarChasmIII
Anonymous 731
you are right on the money. Invite people to the range and maybe free instructions and range fees. We need to make friends, not help our enemies. I live in the DFW metroplex and am hearing lots of negative talk over in your face activities. Do not be a jerk-Make a friend.
Fred
Well said CzarChasmIII
Shane
Like it or not, when you carry an AR-15 in public, whether it be the local law enforcement, government, military, etc., you arte asking for trouble and you are going to get it, right or wrong . . . permission or not, legal or not, end of story.
None of us like this, but asking for trouble knowing the media will pounce at any chance they get, it stupid. Be smart to be able to come back and fight again...don't get killed in the eyes of public opinion where you will lose.
So pounding your chest as to how some are "unpatriotic" or "gun grabber soccer moms" is ridiculous because on the end, you will lose this battle and if you idiots keep it up, you'll go the same way NY, CT, Co, Ma, NJ is going...so be a tough guy rather than an armed smart guy...don't put in their faces like the fag cupcakes do.
Well I guess I will weigh in on this one too. I have fought all my adult life (I'm 60) to keep my firearm rights. While I agree that it is OK to carry open in public, I think going to a restaurant is a little over the top, and I ain't no "mommies campaigner" either. I enjoy carrying my handguns open or concealed depending on the situation and where I'm going. I have open carried in my home town bar. Walked in with an AR to a deer rifle. I go to the proprietor and check my firearms. It is a custom in Dakota Territory. I keep my handgun concealed most places, mainly because I do not like to attract attention to myself. You can argue tactical bullshit all you want to but if something is going down and they notice you are open carrying guess what? You're gonna be the first one to hit the floor and the slab at the morgue.
Going back to AK's in restaurants, I don't know why a manager/owner would invite people with AK/AR into his establishment and truthfully I don't give a damn. I won't do it and I would appreciate it if others wouldn't either. We are fighting desperately to keep ahead of those who would disarm and enslave us. I hate making their case for them by being a dumb ass. While we have freedom of speech we still can't yell fire in a theater.
If you want to make friends for your cause don't start by intimidation. I am not intimidated necessarily but if I don't know you I'm damn sure gonna keep my eye on you while I eat my steak ... safety off. GET IT!!!
Dakota, you mention that OC'ers will be the first ones shot when things go south. Considering that OC is ubiquitous in states like AZ, WA and MI, if that were true, you would be able to provide documentation for your assertion that is statistically significant enough to even consider as being valid rationale to base a tactical decision on.
Before leaving CA 22 years ago, I worked part-time in a gun store. Even there in CA we were allowed to OC, and every gun store I've ever been in before or since has several employees OC'ing, if not all of them. Why is it that so few gun store robberies during business hours ever happen? Could it conceivably be the deterrent factor of bad guys knowing that everyone in there is armed? I believe that OC provides such a deterrent. "Can" it happen the way you described? Sure, it can, but it can also cause thugs not to take the chance that they'll be rolled out on a gurney instead of on foot with a pocket full of easy money. Your concealed weapon has exactly zero potential to deter crime in any way, shape, manner or form.
You're promulgating a myth. There is no significant data available to substantiate your claim that OC'ers are shot more often than CC'ers. I, too, am 60, and I too abhor drawing attention to myself, but after thoughtful consideration of years of discussions I've had with regular OC'ers, plus Alabama clarifying the laws concerning the legality of OC just last August, I was convinced that I would be safer by OC'ing than by CC'ing. I have nothing against those who choose CC, but I do have something against myths and propaganda being substituted for valid, intellectually-honest scrutiny. That's what pissed me off about this comments thread - there was almost zero intellectual scrutiny being applied, and almost nothing but gun-owners spreading lies and propaganda that the Mommies are sitting back laughing at you for buying into.
CzarChasmIII
Czar, I disagree that concealed carry provides ZERO deterrant. If the thugs KNOW that concealed carry is not only possible but indeed probable, a similar reaction to open carry does exist. Look to the batman shooter for evidence of it. He chose a theater farther from his position because it was a posted gun free zone.
The reality here is that what deterrent is produced either way IS NOT GERMANE to the factual point. The LIBERTY to decide open or concealed does not rest with government, the democratic vote or whether it's good or bad in relation to crime. It rests, by the highest declaration of law possible, with each INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE for themselves. Period.
That ummm SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.
I agree with you friend in the points you bring especially about open carry. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter beyond personal perception. And that's not where our fight is best fought.
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