My piece on John Dodson appears to have given some of you a case of ideological gas. Linked here. Presented here.
I replied in both places:
Your ideological purity is commendable. Reminds me of some communists and the dialectic I once knew. I suppose I could have taken that position, but then no one would have heard about Gunwalker then, would they?
We all come to the Road to Damascus by different ways. Condemning people you do not know because they are not as far down that road, or entered by a different byway is, well, there's a word for it.
I stand by every word I wrote about Dodson, and all the ones I will write when I am able to say more.
Just remember that Dodson has struck a mightier blow against the domestic enemies of the Constitution than you or I, or anybody else has in decades.
Despise him if you will. Suspect him if you will. You still cannot take that away from him.
But, by all means, as is your right you may spit on his boots as he strides by you, cowering in the ditch, taking the fight to our common enemy. There's a word for that too.
Mike Vanderboegh
III
28 comments:
This is what I had to say about Dodson in a comment at TLinExile.
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I noticed something in the "Gun-Walker" story I don't remember if it was the CBS article or what but there was a escalation of violence south of the border after the ATF started their stupid Gun-Runner Project, So Dodson has a reason to feel VERY GUILTY.
Guilty as an Accessory to Murder.
The Murder of hundreds or thousands yet to come.
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Perhaps the Families of these future victims will never know of Dodson part in the death of one of their Loved Ones.
Dennis
III
Texas
I've read all of your posts on Gunrunner and all of the posts urging caution against overly praising the man speaking out.
I saw one post on a different blog that basically said, 'so what, you still are a traitor', but that person almost always takes an opposing view point, so he marginalizes himself in the discussion.
From what I read, I don't think anyone's 'spitting on his boots' or 'hiding in a ditch' while Agent Dodson does the heavy lifting against 'the enemies of the Constitution'. Being in the right place at the right time comes into play here, and SA Dodson is there and has acted, and for that, I know I'm appreciative.
That said, I believe the only thing being expressed by those who don't necessarily agree with you that this guy deserves all the superlatives you given him is for all of us to remember that no matter what, he still belongs to an agency that 'did' Olofson, Weaver, and countless others unconstitutionally, and in many cases, extra-legally. Even you've said, "When you take the King's shilling, you're still the King's man."
It's natural to be suspect, that's all.
Maybe this guy is an "oathkeeper". I sure hope so. Maybe his move is about expedience and motivated out of pure hatred for Melson, et al.
Only he knows, really.
The important thing is that ATF is taken DOWN, because it's unlawful (meaning unconstitutional). Maybe Dodson's actions will be what starts the tree falling.
I believe it's doing a disservice to those who every day do little things to keep the fire of Liberty buring as well as those who applaud and support your work as well as to the actions of this agent to imply cowardice from the ditch, so to speak, against others who have honest reservations as to the motivation of the man.
So, it's your call, but taking people to task for acting snake bit around someone who is an active member of the 'rattlesnake club' doesn't do anyone any good.
Just an opinion.
Mike, the ATF needs to be crushed, it's agents jailed or executed.
I don't do this to be popular. I do this to win, consistent with my principles. You people yearn for oath keepers and spit on the first real one that passes by? That's like saying a former drug war prosecutor who has changed coats to the Rebellion is still guilty of his constitutional defalcations and thus should be considered suspect. Is that what you're saying?
Mike, do you remember the fable about the woman who brought the poor cold snake to her home to warm it up, she asked the snake why did you bite me.
His reply was WTF Lady I'm a snake.
Although what Dodson did by coming forward is comendable, I will NOT accept him into "My Circle of Patriots"
Dennis
III
Texas
And yes, Pat H, I'm quite familiar with your bloody-minded opinions. And if you had all those ATF agents, every one, in front of you in one vast ditch, would you shoot them all yourself, one at a time? Not knowing who they are or what side they are really on? Would you? Really? Or do you just play a Jacobin guillotine operator with your keyboard on the Internet?
"Although what Dodson did by coming forward is comendable, I will NOT accept him into 'My Circle of Patriots'"
Dennis,
We each, it seems, have our own definition of "patriot." Dodson meets mine. We differ, I am certain, on many things, Dodson and me. Who we serve, I think, is not one of them. Of course, I could be wrong. But I AM GOING TO FIGHT THIS FIGHT WITH EVERY TOOL AND EVERY ALLY AVAILABLE WHETHER MY ERSTWHILE FRIENDS SEE THE WISDOM OR NECESSITY OF IT OR NOT.
Vanderboegh
Mike,
First of all, who said you're doing this to be popular? Secondly, who challenged your principles?
I believe the only thing that's happened is some folks are telling you to lighten up on the move to sainthood for an ATF agent.
And then you keep categorizing honest anxiety about the motivation of someone heretofore silent on unconstitutional and unlawful actions agsint the citizenry as e 'spitting on the first [oathkepper] that passes by'.
You of all people, should understand why people are not ready to unconditionally accept the actions of this admittedly brave agent as selflessly patriotic. Nobody knows his true motivations save he.
It appears that you are taking disagreement with your perspective personally and that everyone who disagrees with you is hopelessly lost in 'group think' and is just as bad in their thought process as the Marxist/Lenninists.
Just from what I've read about the misgivings of your readership (and others on other blogs linked to you) this is not about you.
This is about the very honest misgivings of the III community to an agency that is an avowed enemy of anyone who disagrees with their stated mission of limiting the exercise of the 2A and, to quote Codrea, prime examples of "the only ones".
So, if you want to categorized that as "suspect", I guess the answer is yes. This is truly a 'wait and see' situation. He's not truly 'vetted' yet from a III perspective, now, is he?
You've got a lot of support out here in the hinterlands; insulting those folks because they don't necessarily see things like you do (admittedly having much less information that you do) is not effective at builing the movement.
More opinion on my part.
I think Mike's position and judgement are certainly reasonable, and in the long run, wise. If, in overturning the current status, we engage in an all encompassing bloodbath, that knows no reason and learned judgement, we will wind up with the loss of some very good people. Yes, some have sinned horribly. He without sin should cast the first stone. Remember, all of us have failed in life, miserably. What you are is what you do after you get up and walk away from that. Any outfit devoid of mercy belongs in the ranks of the SS. I too, want vengence. With reason. And if we hack everyone who wants to change their ways and come on over for the big win, who will come after they see the reception?
Dodson put his career and family on the line to bring to light this atrocity. How many of you "Patriots" can say that?
WarriorClass
III
The quality of mercy is not strain'd,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
The Merchant Of Venice Act 4, scene 1
When the Restoration comes to pass, we can use the opportunity as free men to settle down and rebuilding a new country or we can use our new-found freedom to settle old scores.
Excepting all but the most recalcitrant of the Old Guard, forgiveness and reconciliation should be our goal.
Dodson has well and truly come clean on his involvement in this
sordid affair. He deserves much respect for having exposed the misconduct of evil men within his agency.
Mercy and judgement are fearsome acts. I rest better knowing Mike has found God's forgiveness and will not begrudge it to others.
MALTHUS
What Doc said.
As a health care professional, the one thing that I'm pretty sure of is that after six hours of pumping in deadly levels of an anesthesia liquid, used as a carrier for the chemical warfare agent used against the Branch Davidians, all of the children were likely already dead before the rest were burned to death.
Waco: The Rules of Engagement
Waco: A New Revelation
This Is Not an Assault: Penetrating the Web of Official Lies Regarding the Waco Incident
A stockbroker is hired at a corrupt firm, he goes along with it for a while, but he eventually ends up taking the company down because such wrongs cannot be allowed to continue. Righteousness must prevail even if only to appease his own personal guilt. Politician, police officer, teacher, rank-and-file employee; this story line has been repeated thousands of times before. Such characters were at the heart of cases involving Erin Brockovich and Karen Silkwood. The theme makes for some very popular movies as well, such as "The Firm" and "Boiler Room".
Virtually ALL whistle blowers could be accused of being complicit with the wrongdoing they tried to stop, yet they came forward because they no longer agree with such tactics. We usually praise them for coming forward with the truth, seeking what is right rather than continue in what is wrong.
Why do we now treat Dodson differently? Like him or not, respect him or not, he seeks to right a wrong and deserves our support.
Dodson did the right thing for coming forward, and should be commended for that. He has done a tremendous amount of good by doing so.
If there be less than honorable actions in his past, then let that be weighed against the good he has accomplished. I don't recall his name coming up in the egregious actions of the ATF in the past.
I doubt he is in the "Waco Jim" or Jody Keeku class.
Unless he personally pumped the gas into the Davidian compound he cant be held accountable for that sin.
Give the guy a chance to bear his soul. We need to know what he did in the past with the agency before we through him under a bus.
Grenadier1
There are those who, to the end, will be true believers".
There are those who, to the end, will suspect anyone not "pure enough" in their eyes.
There are those who, to the end, will say that their cause is the noble one and the others, not.
There are those who, to the end, will follow their "true beliefs" until they meet the "true believers" at the other side of the circle -and find themselves with their enemies.
There was a man some 2000 years ago who was reported to have held the coats of a bunch of other men who stoned to death a young follower of Jesus. That man encouraged that homicide and spent a considerable amount of time persecuting members of the early church.
Saul of Tarsus, an original whistle blower, became Paul the Apostle and arguably the chief proponent of Christianity. Without him, Christianity very well might not exist today.
I'm not equating John Dodson with St. Paul, but there are definitely some parallels there.
[W3]
If we do not support Dodson, why should or would any more come forward? A bunch of Agenda driven Psycopaths are in charge of the ATF. If we throw men who want to do the right thing and change the organization under the bus we are cutting off our noses to spite our faces. We do not live in a perfect world and this fight is to the death between two opposing philosophies.
We need to keep our reservations to ourselves and hammer our Federal Senators to hold hearings,
and to protect those willing to come forward. We can get to the bottom of the motives issue later.
"And yes, Pat H, I'm quite familiar with your bloody-minded opinions. And if you had all those ATF agents, every one, in front of you in one vast ditch, would you shoot them all yourself, one at a time? Not knowing who they are or what side they are really on? Would you? Really? Or do you just play a Jacobin guillotine operator with your keyboard on the Internet?"
Think that's Jacobine? Check this out:
http://iiipercent.blogspot.com/2011/03/question-for-oathkeepers-whistleblowers.html
Not just ATF, but all cops (and all military?) will be killed, if the great patriot Kerodin gets his way (and unfortunately, he is not alone).
Now there's a winning strategy - announce, in advance, to all those in police an military service who otherwise may have gone over to the resistance that they shouldn't bother, because if the resistance wins, they will surely be executed for the crime of wearing a uniform, whatever they may have done to help the resistance.
What a brilliant military strategy! Rather than divide your enemy's forces against your enemy, make them all PERSONALLY fear your victory and convince them that their only hope (and likely their family's too) is to crush you completely, in detail.
Mike, I see lots of the same anarchist drivel here in your comments and over at WRSA - declarations that ALL in government service, at every level, are guilty and should lose their head or get a bullet.
Idiots, all. And losers all, if their strategy wins out.
High Plains Lawyer
And one more thing:
At Nuremburg, the victorious Allies didn't conduct mass executions of all German soldiers, who were obviously part of the Nazi machine. Those who committed true war crimes were the only ones who had to fear the noose.
And as the Allies swept into Germany those average German soldiers were reasonably certain that if they surrendered the Allies would treat them well and eventually return them to their families, who would also be free from reprisals.
That is a recipe for victory and maximizing desertion, surrender, and people switching sides.
Pronouncements of intent to kill all in government service are a recipe for having those in uniform fight to the last man, and never desert, change sides, or surrender.
Good luck with that, all you bloody minded anarchists out there.
High Plains Lawyer
What sort of restoration do each of you want?
The majority commenting want something like the aftermath of the American revolution, with fair trials for any criminals but no terror.
I will add my preference for trials for any atrocities on either side!
History has several counterpoints to that; starting with the terror following the French revolution, and carrying on through the many Red Terrors.
Now is a time to apply the prisoner's dilemma
It has two horns
Do the ATF employees start singing before their co accused, in order to receive more lenient treatment for themselves(and you need to honour those who do)?
or,
Do they keep quiet and risk their co-accused singing all about them, and getting the more lenient treatment?
I'm watching this from outside the US. If I was in the US, I'd be applying for an ATF job.
Think how successful the Fabians and Gramscians have been.
Where revolutionary regimes have crumbled, the Fabian and Gramscian gradualists have succeeded.
Sure, you need threat to keep the leviathan's immediate appetites at bay, but you also need those inside it to eat it down to size from within.
Welcome Dodson, and you'll likely get more like him coming over.
You'll likely get some very useful sleepers on the inside of those agencies too.
Uncle Mike, you are an inspiration in this. The insights you gained during your time on the left are worth their weight in gold.
Dick's Dad
"spit on his boots as he strides by you, cowering in the ditch"
or on your knees licking his boots. Is there nothing between? I'm glad he has spoken. Maybe welcome him while having questions for later about motive and agenda. Do you really think he would hesitate, or would have, to kill you and your family, or send you to prison, because he was following orders, oath be damned?
Uncle Mike, you are an inspiration in this. The insights you gained during your time on the left are worth their weight in gold.
Dick's Dad
March 7, 2011 2:57 PM
Roger that, DD.
True for me as well, although I can't claim the insight, eloquence or dedication that Mike can, justifiably so.
Jon III
Jon III
I'm in Mike's camp--forgive those who repent. This doesn't mean that we shouldn't still be wary. Neither should we still "let them in" to a full extent. I'm finding myself more and more at odds with those of you who have no mercy. A house divided against itself cannot stand. God himself said that vengence is HIS, not ours.
I agree with MALTHUS for the most part. It appears that Dodson fought against this gunwalking strategy from the beginning, within the ATF, and finally in the media. While I am all for "forgiveness," I'm not sure that Dodson would be so grateful to you kind souls that deem he needs your "forgiveness." Try to see this from another point of view.
I respect soldiers because they put their lives where their mouth is, unlike so many commentators here, whether they be right or they be wrong.
It is my opinion that it is wrong to be in the ATF, or even the US military at this point in our history (even though I was in it for four years in my youth), but I understand that many think they are serving their country, even as I did 33 years ago.
Now I see that service as supporting Leviathan. But that in no way diminishes the respect I have for those that have the heart and guts to put their life on the line for what they believe.
Dodson was and is a true believer and his actions prove that he was a patriot all along, from the beginning. Now I don't know the man, but his actions speak VERY LOUDLY to those that are listening.
Perhaps Dennis308 would not accept me in his circle of "Patriots" since I served in the US military, which is also an arm of Leviathan. Perhaps he wouldn't think I'm Texan enough either, though my family has historical markers all over this state for their contributions to the establishment of the Republic of which I am a forth generation and my children fifth generation "Texicans," and damn proud of it. Perhaps Mike isn't enough of a "Patriot" to be part of his exclusive circle since his son also serves in the military and Mike is an admitted former Commie!
So before you condemn, and before you so mightily "forgive," examine your own hearts and ask yourself in the privacy of your own mind without your keyboard bravado, "Am I willing to put my life where my mouth is, and what have I done in the past that substantiates that answer?"
WarriorClass
III
And I responded with comments here.
Now for the love of all that is holy, let's break out the needles and dental floss, sew up our gaping girlholes (myself included), and belay all of the bitch-slapping and hair-pulling.
There are enemies all around us if someone wants to start a fight.
This shit is fucking embarrassing. It's like a name-calling contest amongst the choirboys while the Hell's Angels are at the other end of the bar, choosing whose porthole will get plumbed first.
STOP IT NOW, GODDAMNIT.
Warrior Class; would I Stand With You? Yes. Because I call myself Texan instead of Texican is Not reason for you to take offence. In THIS PART of Texas, Texican can be and is offencive to some people.
Military service was something I did not do because I didn't feel the need to(to young for Vietnam to old for Afghanistan)although my Son Dennis Jr.lost his knee while in training with the USAF and I am PROUD of his Service.
Being in a Alphabet Agency is not the same as Military Service and damn sure not to be compared to ATF.
I live on the border and will be affected by this Gun Walker B/S for years to come so I take all this Personally. We have enough B/S with out our own Government supplying Guns to the Cartels thank you very much.
I have put my life on the here on the "Frontera" and with(good guys) and against(bad guys)LEO's.
Dennis
III
Texas
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