To tell the truth I don´t know who to fear more the Totalitarian Police or the Totalitarian Christians.
I am Christian by my own choice but I don´t have the right or authority in any sense to take away the God Given Right to Chose of anyone else.If someone chooses to go to hell who am I to stop them.
Choice has been Mankind's Greatest Blessing, and at the same time Mans biggest burden.
Now these LEO´s telling people that they are on Private Property when in fact it is Public State Property is just another example of ¨Only Ones Mentality¨. To bad it will come back and bite them in the ass some time in the not so distant future.
Initially, I had some sympathy for the officers while they were simply removing unwanted and intentionally disruptive persons from private property at the request of the owners, but I knew it was going to come down to intimidation, abridgment of rights and kidnapping when the (admittedly obnoxious) protesters refused to submit to the holy priesthood of the State.
It all went south after Officer Goff stooped to their level and started antagonizing them. After that, it was inevitable that his buddies were going to start using violence to show the mundanes who's boss.
Incidentally, I feel compelled to comment that some of us atheists are lovers of liberty too. We aren't all vile collectivists. Just most.
At the end the officer said he issued a "lawful command". I dont live in that state but it can't be a lawful command to tell someone to turn off a camera can it?
Meh, they'll get some sensitivity training or some such.
I'd be interested to see if they'd take the same tack if the protestors were followers of the Religion of Peace (TM). Those guys tend not to turn the other cheek so much.
Someone please post the contact info of those brave Christians. I'd love to congratulate them and offer any support and prayers they need. I have to do something.
I have a badge, you will obey my authority! When citizens begin to make that authority a dangerous thing to apply perhaps attitudes will change. I have drawn lines in the sand. That officer crossed many of them. He should pray we never meet.
They are rendered omniscient and omnipotent by donning their magic suit/shield/tacticool gloves.
None of them will lose one day's pay, none of them will lose their job, none of them will suffer *ANYTHING* a non "only-one" might consider a "Consequence."
I truly hope that - following The Restoration - We The People punish those who abuse their authority suffer true penalty - fines and or imprisonment for lesser crimes, death for murder - for said abuse. Rightly - given that their actions have the color of "law" - I believe their penalty should be doubled.
Anon 15:48 -- ANYTHING ordered by an "Only One" is a "lawful order" -- if you follow their "logic"...
Think:
*I* am the law! *I* gave _you_ an order! Ergo, it was a "lawful" order!
Wrong, sparky!!
MedicDave said...
"Someone please post the contact info of those brave Christians. I'd love to congratulate them and offer any support and prayers they need. I have to do something."
See, we're thinking in opposite directions.
I was hoping someone would post the contact info of those brave "only ones." I'd love to "congratulate" *THEM* and offer the "support" *THEY* need, along with a little scripture.
In my happy little fantasy, something from Ezekiel would suffice...
idahohunter said: " He should pray we never meet."
Why? Are you going to call him names? Fart in his general direction? Post vague threats on the internet?
Perhaps less keyboard posturing and more thoughtful comments coupled with effective local communication would contribute to rolling back an obese overbearing government.
What you professed is NOT the proper Christian attitude. Your JOB is to preach the gospel at all times and use words if necessary. St Paul tells us that even if we move mountains, without charity we are nothing.
"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
Not speaking the truth to a soul and allowing him to "choose" Hell is not charitable. By your reason you would do nothing while your neighbor chose to commit suicide by jumping off the roof. Who wouldn't cry out "Stop! Nothing is so bad to do this. Let me help you!"? Your erroneous theology tells you that you don't have the "right or authority" to take away another's "right" to go to Hell. You not only have the right you have the obligation to speak to try to prevent him. Then if he still chooses Hell you are not culpable in his demise. Just as it would not be your fault if the man still jumped from the roof after you begged him to reconsider, you would not be culpable in the eternal demise of a soul who still chose Hell after hearing from you the words of truth. You don't have to hog tie a person and force feed them Holy Scripture every hour on the hour but you are to give him the truth in all things.
John Bad Elk vs US made it pretty clear that an LEO operating outside of the law (whether the law in question is the Constitution and/or other written law is an exercise left to the reader) is at risk of LAWFUL righteous self-defense from the intended victim(s).
On the flip side of this, ya gotta be pretty stupid to go to a heavy metal concert and antagonize patrons with billboards and condemning them with bible scriptures. Handing out cold water and some kind words would have gone a lot further to getting your message out.
Well - apart from free speech issues, once that the protesters were on a public sidewalk, I think it would have been great if they had either (a) collapsed into fetal positions ( that is what you do when you refuse to move, you don't go stiff or tussle with the pig, lest you be defiled, you just fall and curl up) or better yet, (b) if they had put a shive between the ribs of some of these nazi bastards. Yes, that is what I said and it is exactly what I meant. The Gestapo, like the KGB, got away with doing whatever they wanted just because the sheep meekly did whatever they were told. As Oleg Volk says, so wisely, human beings may understand logic and discourse, but predators understand only strength. There are some of us who have been diagnosed with things that do not indicate particularly long journeys on this mortal coil, and among such, there are many who feel that there is nothing to be lost by showing teeth and using them.
After Olofson, dare we delude ourselves into thinking that if WE just do whatever the nice officer says, WE will be left alone? What did Solzhenitsyn say about that????
Anonymous said:"Not to worry. We know how to deal with atheists."
July 28, 2010 3:43 PM
What? Force them to love God or kill them? Sounds a lot like your in the same boat as the Muslims to me. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is only for devout christians or more to the point catholics? Dennis308 said "To tell the truth I don´t know who to fear more the Totalitarian Police or the Totalitarian Christians." The rest of his post is spot on.
Anonymous said:"Not to worry. We know how to deal with atheists."
Mac Bigelow sez:
"What? Force them to love God or kill them? Sounds a lot like your in the same boat as the Muslims to me. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is only for devout christians or more to the point catholics?"
My preference is to annoy them to distraction until they come to Jesus. Tickling is sometimes permitted. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. -- Mike
As my son who lives in NM (because my daughter in law wants to stay near her folks) always says "Welcome to New Mexico, land of entrapment. Set your clocks back 100 years." It's such an enlightened place. NM has completely abandoned the "sticks and stones" principle. You can be prosecuted for assault for publicly impugning a persons honor or ancestry. Yup! Call someone a bastard or an SOB and you can be prosecuted for ASSAULT!
This video is a perfect example of pigs in action. And as a couple of others have written, I seriously doubt anything will come of this for the officers involved - unless it is a pat on the back.
It is guys like that that will happily round up the guns when the 2nd amendment is interpreted out of existence. I hope the bald one is the one who shows up at my son's place. Local pigs stay off his property absent a DAMN good reason.
Jesus did say that if people didn't receive the Gospel, his disciples were to shake the dust from their sandals and move on. That indicates that some people just won't receive Him. It's great to preach the Gospel, but I don't think signs and yelling that people are "going to hell" from a distance is going to accomplish that goal. It just makes people say "what a bunch of assholes".
Come on, ask yourself if these guys' goal was to convert non-believers or just to "test boundaries". I've got no problems with either, just that they should be done separately.
That said, it is SO tiring to watch this police state mentality of "you will obey my lawful command" bullshit. How much longer? How much more? When will people wake up?
>>> As Oleg Volk says, so wisely, human beings may understand logic and discourse, but predators understand only strength. <<<
Exactly so! Which is why the Constitution and Bill of Right were written and the "authorities" ignore them as much as possible. Without prosecution or penalties, and I don't mean days off.
The reason this was done in this manner is because mister big time tough deputy/ies knew they could get away with it with a bunch of peaceful Christians. Believe me they are still laughing about it.
It also tells you a lot about the peace officer selection process in that jurisdiction.
Does this ass clown think that he is an orificer in the military?
Does he think that whatever he says is law?
Sadly, NOTHING will come of this. At most there will be an internal departmental investigation, and ALL of the JBT's will get a pass.....justifiable actions.
Thank You Randy Jesus did tell his disciples if they refuse to accept my word, shake the dust from you feet and leave. Anon 8:52 Sir or Madam which ever the case may be DO NOT TELL ME THAT I AM NOT CHRISTAIN!
It is not for me to waist my time converting people who WILL NOT see the light of god´s Love for us a Love so deep that He sent His Own Son To Die To For MY Sins.
I don´t profess to be A Good Christian, I cannot quote you Chapter and Verse but I have read in The Bible about ¨though they have ears they will not hear and though they have eyes they will not see¨ and it further goes on to say that Waisting the Word upon them is like casting your seed upon barren stone and NOT to to do so.
Your IDEA of what is A Christain and Mine Are Not the same. I am Christain because I Do Believe That Crist came to this World so that I could Find my way Into Heaven Because I nor any man before me could Obey Gods Law and we have all sined against him. And you do not agree then that is Your problem.
"The reason this was done in this manner is because mister big time tough deputy/ies knew they could get away with it with a bunch of peaceful Christians. Believe me they are still laughing about it." -Anon July 29, 2010 6:11 AM
You put me in mind of the old saw about the animal rights people who throw paint on old ladies wearing fur, but never on hairy bikers wearing leather.
Remember the good old days when they were 'peace officers' before they became LEOs ?
And I still thought that the standard was that the uniform has no religious or political opinions. (but that would be professional behavior, wouldn't it?)
In any case (speaking as a pagan minister) I am fully prepared to defend my flock with force against anything smacking of forced conversion. For that matter, I (and most others of my sect) would defend with force the votaries of any religion from forced conversion.
While I recognize that many of the viewers of this board have wildly different views of the nature (or the existence) of the spiritual world, most of us can agree on what constitutes correct behavior of free men towards other free men and towards the helpless and innocent.
I think Dutchman6 has it down.
"My preference is to annoy them to distraction until they come to Jesus. Tickling is sometimes permitted. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. -- Mike"
That strikes me as reasonable and preferable to many of the alternatives.
And I still get you annoy you about the ways of the Great Dagda 8-)
34 comments:
To tell the truth I don´t know who to fear more the Totalitarian Police or the Totalitarian Christians.
I am Christian by my own choice but I don´t have the right or authority in any sense to take away the God Given Right to Chose of anyone else.If someone chooses to go to hell who am I to stop them.
Choice has been Mankind's Greatest Blessing, and at the same time Mans biggest burden.
Now these LEO´s telling people that they are on Private Property when in fact it is Public State Property is just another example of ¨Only Ones Mentality¨. To bad it will come back and bite them in the ass some time in the not so distant future.
Dennis
III
Texas
Initially, I had some sympathy for the officers while they were simply removing unwanted and intentionally disruptive persons from private property at the request of the owners, but I knew it was going to come down to intimidation, abridgment of rights and kidnapping when the (admittedly obnoxious) protesters refused to submit to the holy priesthood of the State.
It all went south after Officer Goff stooped to their level and started antagonizing them. After that, it was inevitable that his buddies were going to start using violence to show the mundanes who's boss.
Incidentally, I feel compelled to comment that some of us atheists are lovers of liberty too. We aren't all vile collectivists. Just most.
yeah Mike, the LE-thugs at the Dearborn-istan, Michigan, locked up Christians and stole their video, when they asked a few questions at a Muslim-fest.
It is really hard to be patient with all this heavy handed crap going on....but they will fire the first shot....
There is no tyranny like that of the lowliest bureaucrat. I am seething with rage!
Thom
III
I am very tired.
So I pray the way he taught us to pray.
My Father, who art in Heaven...
Michael in MS
III
I guess it just shows who their gods are.
The one who issued the "lawful order" to stop taping and then got physical with the cameraman? I hope he gets special attention.
Not to worry. We know how to deal with atheists.
At the end the officer said he issued a "lawful command".
I dont live in that state but it can't be a lawful command to tell someone to turn off a camera can it?
JL
Pathetic.
Meh, they'll get some sensitivity training or some such.
I'd be interested to see if they'd take the same tack if the protestors were followers of the Religion of Peace (TM). Those guys tend not to turn the other cheek so much.
Someone please post the contact info of those brave Christians. I'd love to congratulate them and offer any support and prayers they need. I have to do something.
I did not see much turning of cheeks, nor rendering unto Caesar what was Caesar's.
Sharing is always good, except when it is unwanted, and especially when it is opinions instead of bread and fish.
I have a badge, you will obey my authority! When citizens begin to make that authority a dangerous thing to apply perhaps attitudes will change. I have drawn lines in the sand. That officer crossed many of them. He should pray we never meet.
Sadly, NO.
Don't you know?
They are rendered omniscient and omnipotent by donning their magic suit/shield/tacticool gloves.
None of them will lose one day's pay, none of them will lose their job, none of them will suffer *ANYTHING* a non "only-one" might consider a "Consequence."
I truly hope that - following The Restoration - We The People punish those who abuse their authority suffer true penalty - fines and or imprisonment for lesser crimes, death for murder - for said abuse. Rightly - given that their actions have the color of "law" - I believe their penalty should be doubled.
DD
Anon 15:48 -- ANYTHING ordered by an "Only One" is a "lawful order" -- if you follow their "logic"...
Think:
*I* am the law!
*I* gave _you_ an order!
Ergo, it was a "lawful" order!
Wrong, sparky!!
MedicDave said...
"Someone please post the contact info of those brave Christians. I'd love to congratulate them and offer any support and prayers they need. I have to do something."
See, we're thinking in opposite directions.
I was hoping someone would post the contact info of those brave "only ones." I'd love to "congratulate" *THEM* and offer the "support" *THEY* need, along with a little scripture.
In my happy little fantasy, something from Ezekiel would suffice...
DD
Dennis308,
Just remember those "totalitarian Christians" were once known as Puritans.
They were so awful hundreds of thousands of immigrants came here to glom on to their success.
Of course, most of them could not be bothered to adopt the life and religion of their hosts but ingrates are a part of life.
That's sarcasm.
You could do much worse in life than live by the straight and narrow and it's a heluva lot easier when your people are pulling you back on track.
idahohunter said:
" He should pray we never meet."
Why? Are you going to call him names? Fart in his general direction? Post vague threats on the internet?
Perhaps less keyboard posturing and more thoughtful comments coupled with effective local communication would contribute to rolling back an obese overbearing government.
@ Dennis
What you professed is NOT the proper Christian attitude. Your JOB is to preach the gospel at all times and use words if necessary. St Paul tells us that even if we move mountains, without charity we are nothing.
"And if I should have prophecy and should know all mysteries, and all knowledge, and if I should have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing."
Not speaking the truth to a soul and allowing him to "choose" Hell is not charitable. By your reason you would do nothing while your neighbor chose to commit suicide by jumping off the roof. Who wouldn't cry out "Stop! Nothing is so bad to do this. Let me help you!"? Your erroneous theology tells you that you don't have the "right or authority" to take away another's "right" to go to Hell. You not only have the right you have the obligation to speak to try to prevent him. Then if he still chooses Hell you are not culpable in his demise. Just as it would not be your fault if the man still jumped from the roof after you begged him to reconsider, you would not be culpable in the eternal demise of a soul who still chose Hell after hearing from you the words of truth. You don't have to hog tie a person and force feed them Holy Scripture every hour on the hour but you are to give him the truth in all things.
Dedicated_Dad...
you hit on what I wanted to..
"Lawful Order"...
Ignorance of the law is supposed to not be a defense...
We can't know what they mean by a "lawful order"
...so, we're screwed whenever they speak those magic words..
I wonder if baldy went in to see the concert afterward.....
Jesus did tell his disciples if they refuse to accept my word, shake the dust from you feet and leave.
John Bad Elk vs US made it pretty clear that an LEO operating outside of the law (whether the law in question is the Constitution and/or other written law is an exercise left to the reader) is at risk of LAWFUL righteous self-defense from the intended victim(s).
On the flip side of this, ya gotta be pretty stupid to go to a heavy metal concert and antagonize patrons with billboards and condemning them with bible scriptures.
Handing out cold water and some kind words would have gone a lot further to getting your message out.
Another IIIper athiest.
Well - apart from free speech issues, once that the protesters were on a public sidewalk, I think it would have been great if they had either (a) collapsed into fetal positions ( that is what you do when you refuse to move, you don't go stiff or tussle with the pig, lest you be defiled, you just fall and curl up) or better yet, (b) if they had put a shive between the ribs of some of these nazi bastards. Yes, that is what I said and it is exactly what I meant. The Gestapo, like the KGB, got away with doing whatever they wanted just because the sheep meekly did whatever they were told. As Oleg Volk says, so wisely, human beings may understand logic and discourse, but predators understand only strength.
There are some of us who have been diagnosed with things that do not indicate particularly long journeys on this mortal coil, and among such, there are many who feel that there is nothing to be lost by showing teeth and using them.
After Olofson, dare we delude ourselves into thinking that if WE just do whatever the nice officer says, WE will be left alone?
What did Solzhenitsyn say about that????
Anonymous said:"Not to worry. We know how to deal with atheists."
July 28, 2010 3:43 PM
What? Force them to love God or kill them? Sounds a lot like your in the same boat as the Muslims to me. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is only for devout christians or more to the point catholics?
Dennis308 said "To tell the truth I don´t know who to fear more the Totalitarian Police or the Totalitarian Christians." The rest of his post is spot on.
Proud infidel,
Mac
III
Anonymous said:"Not to worry. We know how to deal with atheists."
Mac Bigelow sez:
"What? Force them to love God or kill them? Sounds a lot like your in the same boat as the Muslims to me. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is only for devout christians or more to the point catholics?"
My preference is to annoy them to distraction until they come to Jesus. Tickling is sometimes permitted. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. -- Mike
As my son who lives in NM (because my daughter in law wants to stay near her folks) always says "Welcome to New Mexico, land of entrapment. Set your clocks back 100 years." It's such an enlightened place. NM has completely abandoned the "sticks and stones" principle. You can be prosecuted for assault for publicly impugning a persons honor or ancestry. Yup! Call someone a bastard or an SOB and you can be prosecuted for ASSAULT!
This video is a perfect example of pigs in action. And as a couple of others have written, I seriously doubt anything will come of this for the officers involved - unless it is a pat on the back.
It is guys like that that will happily round up the guns when the 2nd amendment is interpreted out of existence. I hope the bald one is the one who shows up at my son's place. Local pigs stay off his property absent a DAMN good reason.
Jesus did say that if people didn't receive the Gospel, his disciples were to shake the dust from their sandals and move on. That indicates that some people just won't receive Him. It's great to preach the Gospel, but I don't think signs and yelling that people are "going to hell" from a distance is going to accomplish that goal. It just makes people say "what a bunch of assholes".
Come on, ask yourself if these guys' goal was to convert non-believers or just to "test boundaries". I've got no problems with either, just that they should be done separately.
That said, it is SO tiring to watch this police state mentality of "you will obey my lawful command" bullshit. How much longer? How much more? When will people wake up?
>>> As Oleg Volk says, so wisely, human beings may understand logic and discourse, but predators understand only strength. <<<
Exactly so! Which is why the Constitution and Bill of Right were written and the "authorities" ignore them as much as possible. Without prosecution or penalties, and I don't mean days off.
The reason this was done in this manner is because mister big time tough deputy/ies knew they could get away with it with a bunch of peaceful Christians. Believe me they are still laughing about it.
It also tells you a lot about the peace officer selection process in that jurisdiction.
"A lawful order", eh?
Does this ass clown think that he is an orificer in the military?
Does he think that whatever he says is law?
Sadly, NOTHING will come of this. At most there will be an internal departmental investigation, and ALL of the JBT's will get a pass.....justifiable actions.
Seig Heil!!
Bob
III
Thank You Randy
Jesus did tell his disciples if they refuse to accept my word, shake the dust from you feet and leave.
Anon 8:52
Sir or Madam which ever the case may be DO NOT TELL ME THAT I AM NOT CHRISTAIN!
It is not for me to waist my time converting people who WILL NOT see the light of god´s Love for us a Love so deep that He sent His Own Son To Die To For MY Sins.
I don´t profess to be A Good Christian, I cannot quote you Chapter and Verse but I have read in The Bible about ¨though they have ears they will not hear and though they have eyes they will not see¨ and it further goes on to say that Waisting the Word upon them is like casting your seed upon barren stone and NOT to to do so.
Your IDEA of what is A Christain and Mine Are Not the same. I am Christain because I Do Believe That Crist came to this World so that I could Find my way Into Heaven Because I nor any man before me could Obey Gods Law and we have all sined against him. And you do not agree then that is Your problem.
Dennis
III
Texas
"The reason this was done in this manner is because mister big time tough deputy/ies knew they could get away with it with a bunch of peaceful Christians. Believe me they are still laughing about it."
-Anon July 29, 2010 6:11 AM
You put me in mind of the old saw about the animal rights people who throw paint on old ladies wearing fur, but never on hairy bikers wearing leather.
Remember the good old days when they were 'peace officers' before they became LEOs ?
And I still thought that the standard was that the uniform has no religious or political opinions.
(but that would be professional behavior, wouldn't it?)
In any case (speaking as a pagan minister) I am fully prepared to defend my flock with force against anything smacking of forced conversion. For that matter, I (and most others of my sect) would defend with force the votaries of any religion from forced conversion.
While I recognize that many of the viewers of this board have wildly different views of the nature (or the existence) of the spiritual world, most of us can agree on what constitutes correct behavior of free men towards other free men and towards the helpless and innocent.
I think Dutchman6 has it down.
"My preference is to annoy them to distraction until they come to Jesus. Tickling is sometimes permitted. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition. -- Mike"
That strikes me as reasonable and preferable to many of the alternatives.
And I still get you annoy you about the ways of the Great Dagda 8-)
-Bubba Man (One of the Bubbas of the Apocalypse)
Sigh.
Do I hear faint whispers of jihad or inquisition by some commenters?
If any athiests need someone to cover their six against jihadists of any stripe, let me know.
Justin
III
And if the (Slayer was it?0 fans decided to stomp these rude individuals would I be reading about the cops not protecting someone?
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