Iran and the Iranians are not the enemies of America and Americans.
An Israeli attack against Iran will generate negative reactions of most reasonable nations worldwide, to a level to make the negative reaction to the Israeli piracy and kidnapping of the Turkish relief convoy to Gaza pale into insignificance.
Israel badly needs a hard comeuppance, hopefully they'll get it if they attack Iran.
Obviously if the article is true, the Saudis aren't holding to the axiom of the enemy of my enemy. The two forms of Islam worship cannot stand each other.
When you "And how ready are you for the consequences here at home?", what does that mean exactly. If Israel attacks Iran there will no doubt be repercussions.....If she fails to attack and the Islamic Doomsdayers garner weaponized nukes, we will also be feeling ugly repercussions. After Israel would be vaporized, perhaps to foment the coming of the 13th Mahdi, Iran would cut of the Straits of Hormuz and let out energy needs strangle our country.
Obama and the West will never challenge Iran-let alone China or Russia.
Once the pressure cooker of Mideast plays out-we are screwed no matter how you look at it.
Careful there, Pat H., your inner Jew-Hater is showing. As far as Israel getting it's comeuppance, I think if we sold them a couple of squadrons of Raptors, at say, 80% discount, that would be a good start.
The Iranians are not the enemy of America ... I know that. I'm sure that most miss the good ol days when they were a Western and prosperous nation.
Probably most nations will line up against Israel if she does bomb the nuke plants. Oh well .... they're doing that anyway, so I see no difference really.
Israel will defend itself if they get backed in a corner. I expect nothing else and applaud it when they do.
"It was also reported that Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, met Saudi intelligence officials last year to gain assurances that Riyadh would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets violating Saudi airspace during the bombing run. Both governments have denied the reports."
Denial is thus a confirmation of the fact. Governments don't deny pure fiction, they ignore it. Pravda is Truth, if you understand how to see it.
Speculation that a bombing run will be insufficient considers only the use of high-explosive bombs. Atomic weapons are very-much-sufficient to completely destroy the installations, and may give the Israeli bombers enough weight/fuel/tankage capacity to do the mission and return to a friendly base. Anyone who discounts that the IDF has effective 50-500KT low-fallout atomic/hydrogen weapons is living in the late 1960's. The first official documentation of Israeli cooperation with South Africa in design/build/testing of nukes has recently been revealed, confirming the statements and photographs of the Israeli nuclear worker who went public some years back.
Hold on tight and place your loved ones in an unlikely target area upwind from likely ones.
Ahh... so good that the Jew-haters have a spokesperson here today, id est, Pat. The comments would hardly be complete without an anti-semite hoping for the annihilation of Israel by the nice people who brought you 9-11. Next, let's round up all the Christians, and blacks, and then all who are not registered democrats! Keen-o!
The Enemy of my Enemy is not necessarily my friend or some statement along those lines is also an Arabic saying. I do not speak the language but I have family that does.
Pat H. said, Iran and the Iranians are not the enemies of America and Americans.
Kind of miss all of Iranian history since 1935? November 4 1979 when they took our embassy personnel hostage. A major act of war by the way! How about their involvement with the Beirut barracks bombing October 23, 1983? That is two acts of war. I could go on with the many terrorist groups and acts against the U.S. that they have given aid to. Or the weapons they have provided the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. With your claimed occupation maybe you will get a chance to be one of their victims when they pull off an operation in the United States. A hard comeuppance, an ignoramus like you fully deserves.
The Turkish so called "relief convoy" was in violation of so called "international" so called "Law". The attempt to run the Egyptian/Israeli blockade violated both international law and the laws of naval warfare. Did you even know of Egypt's involvement? Are you even vaguely aware of the legal or international issues? And now that the cargo of the Turkish Terrorist convoy has been inspected. Your Nazi-Hamas brethren will not allow the Relief supplies in to Gaza. Or people to be transported by the Egyptians to Egyptian hospitals for medical help. So now we Know it was just another propaganda lie by your Islamo-Nazi brothers.
How about you learn more of what is actually going on and why? Stormfront is not a reliable news source you ignorant mistaken identity as Stalin would describe you "useful idiot".
(Just for the record I have mixed feelings about Israel. But if you can't tell that Israel's enemies are the bad guys. You are to mentally and morally Fu(ked up to be of any value. Except to the bad guys.)
If, somehow, all of Israel's Arab enemies could be totally disarmed, Israel would stay within her borders and mind her business.
If, somehow, ISRAEL were to be totally disarmed, she'd be overrun and decimated - to the last man, woman, child and livestock - within days if not hours.
If you needed any help picking sides, that should do it.
Further, I've said the following for years, each time the subject has come up: (1) It is (or should be) plain (at least to anyone with eyes to see and/or ears to hear) that if Iran ever manages to produce a working nuke, they'll use it on Israel - if only to bring about the return of their pedophile "prophet."
(2) Israel is fully aware of this fact.
(3) For this reason, if Iran comes close to having a weapon, Israel WILL do whatever it takes to alleviate the threat - including the use of their own nukes.
(4) At this point, 'mutual-defense' treaties on both sides start kicking in, and all the dominoes begin to fall - bringing about WWIII...
Somehow I never expected to have to actually watch it happening, but... here we are.
Is it still possible to stop the runaway train? I sure hope so -- otherwise we're about to see a slaughter unprecedented in human history.
The Bible says blood will run as high as a horse's bridle on the plains of Megiddo -- I don't think that's literally possible, but I have no question that the total volume of all the blood that will be spilled - all over - as a result would prove the prophecy correct.
It's fairly well assumed that Israel has somewhere between 20 and 80 tactical nukes on hand, at least a few in the air at all times I would suspect. If a WMD is used against them they will retaliate. If it looks like Iran or its allies are ready to set anything off Israel would probably stage a preemptive strike. World opinion, already shaky at best, against a few million dead Jews (not to mention the Arab population co-located still in country. Not really all that hard a choice now is it.
Ya know, if I were an Iranian who lived under the Shah of Iran's fist courtesy of the U.S. State Dept., CIA, NSA, DoD, and etc. ... I would have taken over the Embassy also.
Saddam would have disappeared a long time ago ... if it weren't for your government arming him and various intelligence agencies feeding him information on his enemies.
Blow-back.
I do ... I really sympathize with Israel ... and I sympathize with many of the Palestinians. But they are not my concern ... and neither am I party to the United Nations.
I am an American. My concern is what is happening here in America. What is happening over there WILL NOT set you free.
And I have to tell you ... if being a patriot means restoring our constitution AND globe trotting all over the world ... AND ... entangling ourselves in every third world country, second world country, and first world country ... spreading "democracy" (SPIT!) around the world ... and womyn's lib, and abortion, and multiculturalism, and the filth on television and ad nauseum ... well ... some of you can take your "patriot movement" and shove it where the sun does not shine.
Whether you realize it or not, many of the shenanigans above and many not listed ... is why we are where we are today.
The Shah of Iran was more benovolent then you and the media made him out to be. Personal freedoms, especially for women and he was moving this third world nation towards a 20th century existence. He had a hard core of religious fanatics (terrorists) that he had to keep at bay because they were constantly trying to take over the country and that effort was the source of the negative press he got. Presumably you think Iran is so much better off now.
I don't believe Israel can do it. The Iranians have spread out their nuclear facilities and hardened them. Maybe the U.S. could take out the Iranian facilities but obviously we aren't going to. The bottom line is Iran will probably get nukes and as someone else said they will probably use them. Israel is so tiny that two nukes set off in their largest population centers would destroy them. However their ability to fight would not be totally destroyed and they would rightfully retalliate. That would mean not just nuking Iran but every other middle east country that actively supports terrorists attacking Israel. This would be a disaster of biblical proportions and might spill over to Western countries. After all do you really think China and Russia would not take advantage of the chaos? And clearly our president is clueless when it comes to international risks so he would be unwilling or unable to react. At the least China will take Taiwan and Russia would take back former Soviet countries. Not to mention the flow of oil from the Middle East would stop and although that wouldn't cripple us (at first) it would cripple many of our allies. This is going to happen and it is the most likely TEOTWAWKI scenario out there. If anyone has been wondering "what" to prepare for, this is it. It will happen, it cannot be stopped and it will be a true TEOTWAWKI. It could happen anytime but my guess is 2-3 years at the most.
Brutus, let me get some of that s@#t you’re smoking cause it must be some good stuff. The same group of religious idiots who now run the country overthrew the Shah. Why, because he broke up the feudal grip the local mosques had on the Iran, confiscating and redistributing to the peasants, huge tracts of land owned by the mosques. Iran under the Shah had equality for women, a strong and growing middle class and relative freedom of expression. Under the Shah, Iran was a regional power, which helped keep the Soviets, and other punks and thugs in the region in check. The Shah’s big sin (in the eyes of the American left) was to be a staunch ally of the United States (kinda like Israel). His second big mistake was to trust the POS President we had at the time Jimmy Carter. You can spout isolationist tripe all you want, but the world today is a small place. 9/11 taught us the perils of ignoring what is going on in the world. You call yourself a patriot but the blame America first attitude you are spouting tells a different story.
Sure! Burn your draft card, and stop paying the taxes that fund war.
"And I have to tell you ... if being a patriot means restoring our constitution AND globe trotting all over the world ... AND ... entangling ourselves in every third world country, second world country, and first world country ... spreading "democracy" (SPIT!) around the world ... and womyn's lib, and abortion, and multiculturalism, and the filth on television and ad nauseum ... well ... some of you can take your "patriot movement" and shove it where the sun does not shine."
Who has 700 military bases in 150 countries? Who spends as much on war as all the other countries combined? Not the Muslims. Who is implementing the world's largest nationalization of medical care? Not the Muslims. Who has the largest and least payable debt in the world? Not the Muslims.
Gunny appears already to have some good s@#t of his own if he can (with a straight face) say: "The same group of religious idiots who now run the country overthrew the Shah."
Who here does not know that the Shah came to power via the CIA-engineered overthrow of the (duly elected) Mossadegh government?
Answer: too many of you.
IF Israel nukes Iran, the Iranians' best option is to... do nothing. It would be implicit proof that they were 'the innocent party' (whether it's true or not, that's how it will spin). In ten years, Israel would not exist -- the remaining nations of the world would cut them off from everything -- trade, communication, tourism, everything, and we will, by then, be too poor to pay attention, so don't count on Uncle Sugar coming to their rescue.
I'll be sad when Israel disappears, but I won't be surprised.
The 'worst case scenario' is 'War Games': global thermonuclear war.
Anyone who thinks that would produce 'a winner', raise your hand.
I am not "defending" Iran. But ... the Shah of Iran and his SAVAK was a brutal task master brought to power and supported by yours truly, the U.S. Government. Just like Saddam.
Defending the Shah of Iran is like saying ... I don't mind a hard task master, as long as he whips me a little softer and 1 percent less.
Besides, what concern is it of yours or anyone else what goes on in Iran? If the Iranian people want to also remove the task masters they have now ... they can have another "revolution".
You people certainly ARE NOT going to restore your republic by fretting over the Iranians, or Afghans, or Iraqis, or Somalians, or Georgians ... etc. ... ad nauseum.
And certainly, most of these petty annoyances have no say WHAT YOUR task masters in D.C. are hoisting upon your heads.
It is always the same ... Our misadventures throughout our global trotting and meddling ALWAYS becomes an excuse to shackle US in the name of saving US from all the bogeymen we either create (in our "interest"?) or create by our excessive meddling where it is not wanted.
"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison
And note that "warfare" has many aspects other than military adventure.
"The Shah’s big sin (in the eyes of the American left) was to be a staunch ally of the United States (kinda like Israel).
Really ... where do you people come from? What freedoms and liberties did the Shah of Iran preserve for you? By propping up, arming, and giving the Shah various intelligence assets on his enemies ... how did that preserve your freedom and liberties? Sure he was a "staunch ally" of the "U.S. GOVERNMENT" ... but certainly, he was no "staunch ally" of YOUR freedom and liberty.
While our overseas despots are being our "staunch ally" ... our own despots are having a despotic affect on your freedom and liberties.
And Israel our "staunch ally"? Well, how about the USS Liberty? How about those Israelis filming and jumping with glee when the towers fell? Let me tell you something about your "staunch ally's" ... your "staunch ally's" will cut your throat in a heartbeat if it was in their interest.
And where are all those "staunch ally" Israelis promoting your freedom and liberty before your very own despots?
I just want to know ... how exactly does cleaning up the sewage spill over there (or creating one) help clean up our own sewage spill over here?
Some of you think that you are preserving OUR freedoms and liberties over here by meddling over there ... when the TRUTH is ... it has had an opposite effect. All in the name of your "safety" of course. And your government is only to willing to SAVE YOU.
And really ... "leftist"? As compared to what? "Rightist"?
When slamming a hammer on your head fails to cure the headache ... keep hammering and maybe it will eventually go away?
I suppose some people have a need for bogeymen ... whether real or promulgated, to justify their warped sense of patriotism. My patriotism is not dependent on the very government that shackles me while rah-rah'ing it's global interventionist policies.
And as for the world being a "small place" ... well, I suppose the world is only as small as you want to make it.
We have the ability to be self-sufficient without the need of promoting and participating in the "global village". We have the ability to wage total war and annihilation on anyone who would dare attack us. It is not my job or your job the make the world safe for democracy (SPIT!) ... or to make sure that woman worldwide have a right act like promiscuous tramps and dress like hookers, or give them MTV.
It is not my job or yours to globalize the world at behest of the global village promoters. It is not my job or yours to make any peoples safe from their own despots ... ESPECIALLY when we are not safe from our own.
And one last thing in my rant: If Israel wants to attack Iran ... then just frikkin do it! Just don't go dragging me and my family in it. Don't go dragging us patriots who are more concerned with re-establishing our republic, freedoms and liberties. I don't want no part of their squabble. Their squabble does nothing to promote the return of our lost republic. And to be blunt ... they don't even give a crap whether or not our republic is re-established!
ONE BILLION Muslims. BOO?
Heck, I've got 300,000,000 despots of my own in my very back yard to worry about.
Some things we dont have to guess at. The books of the Bible have laid out a map of what will be. That being said I will continue to try to make this trip as best I can for my family. I was raised to have more than just a few days of food to hold my family,2-4 weeks but now things are different. We I beleive are going to face times like that have never been seen in this country.Once things get further out than a couple of weeks people that havent prepared will be on the hunt for things that will sustain their families. They may ask first, try to buy or barter then they will take. So while it is prudent to have food water and medicine you wont be able to hold it unless you are prepaired to keep it. mwp
"For that aforementioned raghead, Anonny 7:57, his true name is MooHamMud Koranhole Allahfubar."
More support for my point that I am threatened by Americans, not Muslims. It is not the Muslims who would visit my house to threaten me with prison, should I not pay my "fair share" of tribute to the federal war machine. ParaPacem, would you come to the aid of a US tax collector? Make an anonymous phone call to turn in a tax cheat? How about if the year was 1810, would you turn in a fugitive slave?
Anon at; June 13, 2010 6:58 AM Nuclear weapons are not like other weapons they require highly specialized production Processes and equipment. This has two helpful side effects. 1. They can be detected with the proper equipment. Because they give themselves away and they do not scale up or down easily. 2.Damage or destroy these facilities and you can delay or stop production.
Brutus, are you truly enough of a fool to think they will limit themselves to just Israel? Building the first Nuke is the feat. Then it becomes assembly line work. Do you know how they refer to cities like San Francisco, L.A., or New York? Are truly foolish enough to think they would stop with those cesspits. Do you think uninvolved but deeply religious people like the Mexicans would be left alone?
Go here to find out how the benevolent Shiite Iranian government treats their own people. http://www.omdurman.org/iran.html#persian
Go here to learn about their tolerance for other faiths. http://info.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-7.html
Go here to find out how these clowns act in general. http://www.omdurman.org/deathblog.html
Go here to see how our Honored predecessors dealt with Racially motivated collectivists. http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=VD89Z0_Rav8&feature=related
Anon at; June 13, 2010 7:57 AM Just a few questions for you. How many of those bases have less than 1000 American personnel? How many have less than 100 under normal operating conditions? How many are a few acres and a building on the host countries military facility? Intelligence anyone. How many provide equipment to our allies in the event of war like we would have done with nukes had the cold war gone hot?
How much of that money is just welfare programs hidden in the military budget by progressives? How much of that money is just infrastructure programs hidden in the military budget? How much of that money is advanced research done by DARPA that you will spread your ignorance on in the future like you do now on the internet? Another DARPA program thanks DARPA.
rexxhead the worst case scenario is that Iran supplies its terrorist buddies with those weapons. Like it has with every other man portable weapon they have built or bought. And a few that are not man portable or all that conventional.
The overthrow of the Mossadegh government happened in the context of the cold war. Your oversimplification of what happened is straight out of the progressive handbook. Nice try.
Brutus if you think we can just stop the world and get off. I have some very bad news for you. So long as we have to interact with the world. We will have to deal with them. Read; Target Switzerland, & The Swiss and the Nazis, if you do not want to believe me.
Dan D ... do really believe that the Iranian government is the only government throughout the globe that treats its people bad?
Man, you have got your work cut out for you. We have almost every country South of the border to invade. Almost every country in the African continent. Almost every former East-Block country. Every Middle East country. Not to mention China. AND ... get ready for this ... the united States of America!
Where do YOU personally want to start and give YOUR life and the life of your children in making the world safe for democracy?
Some of you people have been drinking to much neo-con kool-aid. A little to much official government sponsored news-speak.
Heck ... go join the United Nations and be a partaker of global peace, prosperity and the transformation of the global village. You'd make a great spokesmen.
"How many of those bases have less than 1000 American personnel? How many have less than 100 under normal operating conditions? How many are a few acres and a building on the host countries military facility? Intelligence anyone. How many provide equipment to our allies in the event of war like we would have done with nukes had the cold war gone hot?"
The BATF and the EPA are convinced they know better and they are going to rule you. How many of their field offices are just intelligence outposts and equipment depots? If you approve of imperialism, then why do you complain when you are on the losing side?
Passing over Iraq would require at least tacit agreement to the raid from Washington. So far, the Obama Administration has refused to give its approval as it pursues a diplomatic solution to curbing Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
No surprises there. No way His Divine Holiness will allow anything to happen to those nice people in Iran. Never mind that they are our avowed enemies. Never mind that the Israelis will work hard to limit collateral damage. Never mind that the nuclear waste from their bomb making efforts would make some nice radiological weapons. We have to be nice to Iran so they will be our friend.
One problem. Being nice to people in most of the world DOESN'T make them our friends, NOR DOES IT make them like or respect us. All being nice does is make them despise us more. Like most of the world, Iran is a dominance-based culture (unlike the U.S. which is based upon co-operation). In such a culture if you do not assume a posture of superiority, you BY DEFAULT are automatically inferior. Gestures meant to show willingness to cooperate are taken as signs of submission. That is why they consider us weak. Because we do not act strong. The only place "Walk softly but carry a big stick" works is here. Elsewhere you have to act like the big dog to be respected. All BHO's overtures and gestures do is DECREASE our security!
It is incorrect to claim the CIA overthrew the elected leader of Iran. The CIA had only one asset in the country who lobbied against the elected dictator but a coule million or more Iranians wanted him gone as well. The CIA's efforts are greatly exaggerated by those who intentionally spread lies and rumors.
Brutus you are missing the point. Or is it that you are determined to accept only your world view? How did you miss the point that it is not only their own people they as you so weakly put it "that treats its people bad".
Governments that treat their own people worse are more often than not incapable of doing much outside their own borders. North Korea being a prime example. Contained it is only a waiting game until it collapses. Now on the other hand you have China which has a cultural historical aversion to expansionism. Now before anyone goes off about Tibet you better familiarize yourselves with what Chinese consider historical China. Russia is aware of this and protects their boarders appropriately. The "good" news is that the one child policy is already taking them off the board. Truly sad I am sorry to say.
Iran is a Dominant Society compromise and cooperation are seen as weakness. They are one of the most expansionist groups in world history. Familiar with the Battle of Thermopylae? The way people like Obama or yourself deal with them is counter productive at best. In Twenty to Thirty years Iran's own demographics will take them off the board. All we have to do is stare them down. Done properly we may not even have to lob in a few cruse missiles now and then. No invasion necessary. But people like yourself and the self described multiculturalists (talk about a misnomer) just insist on doing the exact wrong thing.
"And Iran nuking the uSA? Bwah..." The way you fools act towards them convinces them every day that they would face no retaliation.
First of all, I don't know where you come off with the idea that I am a "multiculturalist", but if you say so ... then it just must be so.
Anyhow.
There is that old adage that says, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
Of course, That doesn't mean that the Persians and Spartans and Romans and Germanians and Athenians and Turks and Syracusans and Ottomans and Boeotians and etc., etc., are once again going to rise up and take over the world.
So ... the Battle of Thermopylae is pretty much a historical artifact and pretty much ... moot today.
But tell me ... when and how do you think the Iranians will invade and conquer the world ... or the uSA for that matter? Or ... or ... Al Qaida and the Taliban?
(You do know that 91/2 years later, we are still chasing down Bin Laden and his dialysis machine in ... in ... Pakistan? And Sadams Tons of WMD disappeared into ... Syria? Lebanon?)
Ya know, just assuming that Iran has ... or is close ... to getting ... the bomb ... if it even so much as twitched, Israel would turn Iran into a sea of glass.
Now, I realize that many people watch all the so called "right-wing I will tell you how to think and what to believe" outlets on what is known as the "boob tube" ... which verifies the U.S. government "fact" that the world is over-run with billions of crazy Muslims armed to the teeth and ready to rape all our daughters ... but the fact is, Iran is not stupid enough, despite all its rhetoric ... real and made up ... to lob a nuke at Israel ... or the uSA. No wait! I forgot ... didn't Bush tell us ... and Obama verify ... that Islam is the religion of peace?
I am sooooooo confused now!
Ahhhh ... but wait! There is the "Al Qaida" and the "Taliban" who are just itching their twitching fingers to get a hold of a nuke ... from ... who ... IRAN! No wait ... Pakistan? No? N. Korea? Shhhh! Maybe ... Russia?
The good Lord didn't see fit to put oil and gas only where there are democratically elected regimes friendly to the United States. Occasionally we have to operate in places where, all things considered, one would not normally choose to go. But, we go where the business is. Dick Cheney
While Iran is not the "benevolent" and freedom loving country that America is ... and while our leaders only wish to bestow upon us the blessings of liberty ...
Iran is not the "enigma" that Dick and his cohorts are concerned about. The enigma is directly North. It is called the Caspian Sea ... Tri$$ions of it. Iran is directly between Irag ... and a ... hard place. And ... it was "just discovered" that Afghanistan contains Tri$$ions in metals and minerals.
By the way, for all you ... "constitutionalists" out there ... has congress declared war or issued a Letter of Marque ... yet?
I find it amusing that to so many of you, when the "government" talks about your freedom and liberty ... you ... laugh, cringe, yawn, yell bullshit ... yet when it takes you to ... war ... you wave your flags and get right behind the very government you ... love to hate and everything they tell you in regards to it ... is just the ho-lee gospel truth.
Marine83 says: "You call yourself a patriot but the blame America first attitude you are spouting tells a different story."
The last refuge! I'll go kiss the Queens arse and apologize for you. Okay?
Anon at;June 14, 2010 9:17 AM or possibly also; June 14, 2010 12:53 AM, and; June 14, 2010 9:17 AM. Since you do not have the Honor, Courage, or Plain decency to use a Handle, Alias, Name, or Identifier of any kind. I will follow ParaPacem's lead and treat you with the respect you have unearned. Comparing the U.S. military to the BATF and the EPA? Talk about An Apples to Rhododendrons comparison.
"How much of that money is just [pork]" I put pork in the welfare category. But you could not have known that.
So which is it are you a foreigner threatened by the U.S. military? Or a citizen? Or as I suspect a High School or College Kid that has never had to make your Anarchist Beliefs work in the real world where not everyone is in perfect mindless agreement with you? Never mind making them work over a large group or area.
Or worse the all too common Adult anarchist that makes it's living on the dole.
You, perhaps said; "More support for my point that I am threatened by Americans, not Muslims."Threatened by what ParaPacem calling you a mean name?
You said; "I don't think that aspect is all that important."
Well I am forced to agree with the first Three words of that sentence. Good bye Anon take care.
Brutus, At least with you I will never have to ask if your are ignorant or just stupid.
What I said."But people like yourself and the self described multiculturalists (talk about a misnomer) just insist on doing the exact wrong thing."
How you interperated it."I don't know where you come off with the idea that I am a "multiculturalist", but if you say so ... then it just must be so."
I said nothing of the sort! I did however indicate that just like the multiculturalists you are ignorant of other cultures and how they work. As indicated by the words "and the" denoting the existence of two separate groups similarly ignorant.
You said, "There is that old adage that says, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."" Then you go on to deny history as important."So ... the Battle of Thermopylae is pretty much a historical artifact and pretty much ... moot today."
Interesting the Iranians have a different view. Remember that historically inaccurate comic book of a movie 300?
Ever seen one of the Iranian parades where they complain about how they have been mistreated. Representations of all their tormentors make it. Among them the Jews, Ronald Wilson Reagan, the U.S. in general, Saddam, the U.N., the C.I.A., Mossad, and Alexander the Great.
You Again, "Ya know, just assuming that Iran has ... or is close ... to getting ... the bomb ... if it even so much as twitched, Israel would turn Iran into a sea of glass." I would love to see you apply your logic to a gun fight. You would shoot back only after he killed an innocent bystander, Mortally wounded your friend, Maimed your daughter, and shoot off your left arm. Except your friend shot him first and then died. I would have got a friend or two and escorted him from the bar.
So all this is a plan to take Caspian sea oil through hostel Iran to the Persian gulf, Instead of through Mostly friendly Azerbaijan, Georgia and/or Armenia, and Turkey to the Black sea and Mediterranean? Fail political science and Geography? The long way through Iran? Fail Economics? Mountainous Iran, with the valleys and mountains running across the path as opposed to the other route with the valleys more in your favor? Didn't take a engineering or and technology course I take it?
Also a plan to take mineral resources from Afghanistan the long way through hostile Iran, Instead of the short way through not as hostile Pakistan?
Marine83 sees you for what you are. Also has a good understanding of the Iranian revolutions history. Too bad you did not take the opportunity to learn. I learned many things from this board.
Well I am bored by this posts comments board. It was fun for a while but I have other things to read. Take care Brutus.
When I see name-calling or other logical fallacies, I conclude the speaker realizes he has run out of arguments, and is trying to distract from conceding his point. You aren't fooling me; are you fooling yourself? The last refuge of a statist is to "end" an argument by a dominance challenge threatening violence, which is what would happen if this argument was held in person in a bar.
Mr. Anonymous The fact that my friend Happy D bothers to discourse with you at all is interesting. But do you think for a second that many of the crowd are here incapable of spotting your Marxist Critical theory methods for what they are? Including your refusal to answer a trivial question about "where you are coming from" so to speak? A standard Critical theory defensive maneuver.
Happy may not have noticed or even care.
But I think exposing you is good for a laugh.
In the interest of full disclosure I am using Happy D's computer to post this. He left it on. On the desk in the open. I could not resist.
44 comments:
I heard quite some time ago that the Saudis had an agreement with Israel on this matter. Hmmmm wonder why it is announced again.
I am surprised that they haven't bombed Iranian nuke works before now. I have heard that they have enough for a couple of nukes now ... great timing.
Iran and the Iranians are not the enemies of America and Americans.
An Israeli attack against Iran will generate negative reactions of most reasonable nations worldwide, to a level to make the negative reaction to the Israeli piracy and kidnapping of the Turkish relief convoy to Gaza pale into insignificance.
Israel badly needs a hard comeuppance, hopefully they'll get it if they attack Iran.
Iranian General:
Just point those to 24"41'17.40"N/46"43'20.11"E
and
33"18'18.82"N/44"24'17.20'E
Where to begin? Just so many possibilities!
Obviously if the article is true, the Saudis aren't holding to the axiom of the enemy of my enemy. The two forms of Islam worship cannot stand each other.
When you "And how ready are you for the consequences here at home?", what does that mean exactly. If Israel attacks Iran there will no doubt be repercussions.....If she fails to attack and the Islamic Doomsdayers garner weaponized nukes, we will also be feeling ugly repercussions. After Israel would be vaporized, perhaps to foment the coming of the 13th Mahdi, Iran would cut of the Straits of Hormuz and let out energy needs strangle our country.
Obama and the West will never challenge Iran-let alone China or Russia.
Once the pressure cooker of Mideast plays out-we are screwed no matter how you look at it.
Beans, Bullets and God.
Very interesting interview with Hitchens and Baer. Definitely worth watching and paying attention.
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=ODgzY2RmYWQzMTViYmNlMjNiYmZhNGZhMDhjYWUwMjk=
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=NjU1MTZiOThkMTMyMjMxMGI3ZDc3N2MyMmNlYmEwMTE=
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=NmM0OTVjZTgzOTZiYjk1NmM5YTdiMjk5ZmMyZGFlOWY=
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=NTM3YjcwNzM2OTI4MGRiMWMyMDU3ZTk5YmI2OGE4NjE=
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/post/?q=ODVmNjAwM2QyOWNkNDRiNTJlMGE3ODY5OGI4OTlmZTY=
Not good...
Careful there, Pat H., your inner Jew-Hater is showing. As far as Israel getting it's comeuppance, I think if we sold them a couple of squadrons of Raptors, at say, 80% discount, that would be a good start.
The Iranians are not the enemy of America ... I know that. I'm sure that most miss the good ol days when they were a Western and prosperous nation.
Probably most nations will line up against Israel if she does bomb the nuke plants. Oh well .... they're doing that anyway, so I see no difference really.
Israel will defend itself if they get backed in a corner. I expect nothing else and applaud it when they do.
"It was also reported that Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, met Saudi intelligence officials last year to gain assurances that Riyadh would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets violating Saudi airspace during the bombing run. Both governments have denied the reports."
Denial is thus a confirmation of the fact. Governments don't deny pure fiction, they ignore it. Pravda is Truth, if you understand how to see it.
Speculation that a bombing run will be insufficient considers only the use of high-explosive bombs. Atomic weapons are very-much-sufficient to completely destroy the installations, and may give the Israeli bombers enough weight/fuel/tankage capacity to do the mission and return to a friendly base. Anyone who discounts that the IDF has effective 50-500KT low-fallout atomic/hydrogen weapons is living in the late 1960's. The first official documentation of Israeli cooperation with South Africa in design/build/testing of nukes has recently been revealed, confirming the statements and photographs of the Israeli nuclear worker who went public some years back.
Hold on tight and place your loved ones in an unlikely target area upwind from likely ones.
Cheers.
Ahh... so good that the Jew-haters have a spokesperson here today, id est, Pat. The comments would hardly be complete without an anti-semite hoping for the annihilation of Israel by the nice people who brought you 9-11.
Next, let's round up all the Christians, and blacks, and then all who are not registered democrats! Keen-o!
The Enemy of my Enemy is not necessarily my friend or some statement along those lines is also an Arabic saying.
I do not speak the language but I have family that does.
Pat H. said, Iran and the Iranians are not the enemies of America and Americans.
Kind of miss all of Iranian history since 1935?
November 4 1979 when they took our embassy personnel hostage. A major act of war by the way!
How about their involvement with the Beirut barracks bombing October 23, 1983? That is two acts of war.
I could go on with the many terrorist groups and acts against the U.S. that they have given aid to. Or the weapons they have provided the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
With your claimed occupation maybe you will get a chance to be one of their victims when they pull off an operation in the United States. A hard comeuppance, an ignoramus like you fully deserves.
The Turkish so called "relief convoy" was in violation of so called "international" so called "Law".
The attempt to run the Egyptian/Israeli blockade violated both international law and the laws of naval warfare.
Did you even know of Egypt's involvement?
Are you even vaguely aware of the legal or international issues?
And now that the cargo of the Turkish Terrorist convoy has been inspected. Your Nazi-Hamas brethren will not allow the Relief supplies in to Gaza. Or people to be transported by the Egyptians to Egyptian hospitals for medical help.
So now we Know it was just another propaganda lie by your Islamo-Nazi brothers.
How about you learn more of what is actually going on and why? Stormfront is not a reliable news source you ignorant mistaken identity as Stalin would describe you "useful idiot".
(Just for the record I have mixed feelings about Israel. But if you can't tell that Israel's enemies are the bad guys. You are to mentally and morally Fu(ked up to be of any value. Except to the bad guys.)
It appears that back in January Obama told the Egyptian Foreign Minister he is still a Muslim, and supports the Muslim agenda.
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/06/-obama-tells-egyptian-foreign-minister-i-am-a-muslim-stealth-coup-on-the-white-house.html
So if Israel launches a strike on Iran, and Obama orders it shot down, would that be casus belli?
Let's be clear on the facts:
If, somehow, all of Israel's Arab enemies could be totally disarmed, Israel would stay within her borders and mind her business.
If, somehow, ISRAEL were to be totally disarmed, she'd be overrun and decimated - to the last man, woman, child and livestock - within days if not hours.
If you needed any help picking sides, that should do it.
Further, I've said the following for years, each time the subject has come up:
(1) It is (or should be) plain (at least to anyone with eyes to see and/or ears to hear) that if Iran ever manages to produce a working nuke, they'll use it on Israel - if only to bring about the return of their pedophile "prophet."
(2) Israel is fully aware of this fact.
(3) For this reason, if Iran comes close to having a weapon, Israel WILL do whatever it takes to alleviate the threat - including the use of their own nukes.
(4) At this point, 'mutual-defense' treaties on both sides start kicking in, and all the dominoes begin to fall - bringing about WWIII...
Somehow I never expected to have to actually watch it happening, but... here we are.
Is it still possible to stop the runaway train? I sure hope so -- otherwise we're about to see a slaughter unprecedented in human history.
The Bible says blood will run as high as a horse's bridle on the plains of Megiddo -- I don't think that's literally possible, but I have no question that the total volume of all the blood that will be spilled - all over - as a result would prove the prophecy correct.
God help us...
DD
It's fairly well assumed that Israel has somewhere between 20 and 80 tactical nukes on hand, at least a few in the air at all times I would suspect. If a WMD is used against them they will retaliate. If it looks like Iran or its allies are ready to set anything off Israel would probably stage a preemptive strike. World opinion, already shaky at best, against a few million dead Jews (not to mention the Arab population co-located still in country. Not really all that hard a choice now is it.
AMMEN,,,Dedicated Dad you make a good point, Facts.
Dennis
III
Texas
Ya know, if I were an Iranian who lived under the Shah of Iran's fist courtesy of the U.S. State Dept., CIA, NSA, DoD, and etc. ... I would have taken over the Embassy also.
Saddam would have disappeared a long time ago ... if it weren't for your government arming him and various intelligence agencies feeding him information on his enemies.
Blow-back.
I do ... I really sympathize with Israel ... and I sympathize with many of the Palestinians. But they are not my concern ... and neither am I party to the United Nations.
I am an American. My concern is what is happening here in America. What is happening over there WILL NOT set you free.
And I have to tell you ... if being a patriot means restoring our constitution AND globe trotting all over the world ... AND ... entangling ourselves in every third world country, second world country, and first world country ... spreading "democracy" (SPIT!) around the world ... and womyn's lib, and abortion, and multiculturalism, and the filth on television and ad nauseum ... well ... some of you can take your "patriot movement" and shove it where the sun does not shine.
Whether you realize it or not, many of the shenanigans above and many not listed ... is why we are where we are today.
[I]f we sold them a couple of squadrons of Raptors, at say, 80% discount, that would be a good start.--Sean
Now *that's* laugh out loud funny.
MALTHUS
The Shah of Iran was more benovolent then you and the media made him out to be. Personal freedoms, especially for women and he was moving this third world nation towards a 20th century existence. He had a hard core of religious fanatics (terrorists) that he had to keep at bay because they were constantly trying to take over the country and that effort was the source of the negative press he got. Presumably you think Iran is so much better off now.
I don't believe Israel can do it. The Iranians have spread out their nuclear facilities and hardened them. Maybe the U.S. could take out the Iranian facilities but obviously we aren't going to. The bottom line is Iran will probably get nukes and as someone else said they will probably use them. Israel is so tiny that two nukes set off in their largest population centers would destroy them. However their ability to fight would not be totally destroyed and they would rightfully retalliate. That would mean not just nuking Iran but every other middle east country that actively supports terrorists attacking Israel. This would be a disaster of biblical proportions and might spill over to Western countries. After all do you really think China and Russia would not take advantage of the chaos? And clearly our president is clueless when it comes to international risks so he would be unwilling or unable to react. At the least China will take Taiwan and Russia would take back former Soviet countries. Not to mention the flow of oil from the Middle East would stop and although that wouldn't cripple us (at first) it would cripple many of our allies. This is going to happen and it is the most likely TEOTWAWKI scenario out there. If anyone has been wondering "what" to prepare for, this is it. It will happen, it cannot be stopped and it will be a true TEOTWAWKI. It could happen anytime but my guess is 2-3 years at the most.
Brutus, let me get some of that s@#t you’re smoking cause it must be some good stuff. The same group of religious idiots who now run the country overthrew the Shah. Why, because he broke up the feudal grip the local mosques had on the Iran, confiscating and redistributing to the peasants, huge tracts of land owned by the mosques. Iran under the Shah had equality for women, a strong and growing middle class and relative freedom of expression. Under the Shah, Iran was a regional power, which helped keep the Soviets, and other punks and thugs in the region in check. The Shah’s big sin (in the eyes of the American left) was to be a staunch ally of the United States (kinda like Israel). His second big mistake was to trust the POS President we had at the time Jimmy Carter. You can spout isolationist tripe all you want, but the world today is a small place. 9/11 taught us the perils of ignoring what is going on in the world. You call yourself a patriot but the blame America first attitude you are spouting tells a different story.
"Is it still possible to stop the runaway train?"
Sure! Burn your draft card, and stop paying the taxes that fund war.
"And I have to tell you ... if being a patriot means restoring our constitution AND globe trotting all over the world ... AND ... entangling ourselves in every third world country, second world country, and first world country ... spreading "democracy" (SPIT!) around the world ... and womyn's lib, and abortion, and multiculturalism, and the filth on television and ad nauseum ... well ... some of you can take your "patriot movement" and shove it where the sun does not shine."
Who has 700 military bases in 150 countries? Who spends as much on war as all the other countries combined? Not the Muslims. Who is implementing the world's largest nationalization of medical care? Not the Muslims. Who has the largest and least payable debt in the world? Not the Muslims.
Gunny appears already to have some good s@#t of his own if he can (with a straight face) say: "The same group of religious idiots who now run the country overthrew the Shah."
Who here does not know that the Shah came to power via the CIA-engineered overthrow of the (duly elected) Mossadegh government?
Answer: too many of you.
IF Israel nukes Iran, the Iranians' best option is to... do nothing. It would be implicit proof that they were 'the innocent party' (whether it's true or not, that's how it will spin). In ten years, Israel would not exist -- the remaining nations of the world would cut them off from everything -- trade, communication, tourism, everything, and we will, by then, be too poor to pay attention, so don't count on Uncle Sugar coming to their rescue.
I'll be sad when Israel disappears, but I won't be surprised.
The 'worst case scenario' is 'War Games': global thermonuclear war.
Anyone who thinks that would produce 'a winner', raise your hand.
Yeah, me neither.
Now, now boys ... settle down.
I am not "defending" Iran. But ... the Shah of Iran and his SAVAK was a brutal task master brought to power and supported by yours truly, the U.S. Government. Just like Saddam.
Defending the Shah of Iran is like saying ... I don't mind a hard task master, as long as he whips me a little softer and 1 percent less.
Besides, what concern is it of yours or anyone else what goes on in Iran? If the Iranian people want to also remove the task masters they have now ... they can have another "revolution".
You people certainly ARE NOT going to restore your republic by fretting over the Iranians, or Afghans, or Iraqis, or Somalians, or Georgians ... etc. ... ad nauseum.
And certainly, most of these petty annoyances have no say WHAT YOUR task masters in D.C. are hoisting upon your heads.
It is always the same ... Our misadventures throughout our global trotting and meddling ALWAYS becomes an excuse to shackle US in the name of saving US from all the bogeymen we either create (in our "interest"?) or create by our excessive meddling where it is not wanted.
"No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare." James Madison
And note that "warfare" has many aspects other than military adventure.
"The Shah’s big sin (in the eyes of the American left) was to be a staunch ally of the United States (kinda like Israel).
Really ... where do you people come from? What freedoms and liberties did the Shah of Iran preserve for you? By propping up, arming, and giving the Shah various intelligence assets on his enemies ... how did that preserve your freedom and liberties? Sure he was a "staunch ally" of the "U.S. GOVERNMENT" ... but certainly, he was no "staunch ally" of YOUR freedom and liberty.
While our overseas despots are being our "staunch ally" ... our own despots are having a despotic affect on your freedom and liberties.
And Israel our "staunch ally"? Well, how about the USS Liberty? How about those Israelis filming and jumping with glee when the towers fell? Let me tell you something about your "staunch ally's" ... your "staunch ally's" will cut your throat in a heartbeat if it was in their interest.
And where are all those "staunch ally" Israelis promoting your freedom and liberty before your very own despots?
I just want to know ... how exactly does cleaning up the sewage spill over there (or creating one) help clean up our own sewage spill over here?
Some of you think that you are preserving OUR freedoms and liberties over here by meddling over there ... when the TRUTH is ... it has had an opposite effect. All in the name of your "safety" of course. And your government is only to willing to SAVE YOU.
And really ... "leftist"? As compared to what? "Rightist"?
Let me tell you something:
You all voted for the leftists and here we are.
You all voted for the rightists and here we are.
Blind much?
Cont.
Cont.
When slamming a hammer on your head fails to cure the headache ... keep hammering and maybe it will eventually go away?
I suppose some people have a need for bogeymen ... whether real or promulgated, to justify their warped sense of patriotism. My patriotism is not dependent on the very government that shackles me while rah-rah'ing it's global interventionist policies.
And as for the world being a "small place" ... well, I suppose the world is only as small as you want to make it.
We have the ability to be self-sufficient without the need of promoting and participating in the "global village". We have the ability to wage total war and annihilation on anyone who would dare attack us. It is not my job or your job the make the world safe for democracy (SPIT!) ... or to make sure that woman worldwide have a right act like promiscuous tramps and dress like hookers, or give them MTV.
It is not my job or yours to globalize the world at behest of the global village promoters. It is not my job or yours to make any peoples safe from their own despots ... ESPECIALLY when we are not safe from our own.
And one last thing in my rant: If Israel wants to attack Iran ... then just frikkin do it! Just don't go dragging me and my family in it. Don't go dragging us patriots who are more concerned with re-establishing our republic, freedoms and liberties. I don't want no part of their squabble. Their squabble does nothing to promote the return of our lost republic. And to be blunt ... they don't even give a crap whether or not our republic is re-established!
ONE BILLION Muslims. BOO?
Heck, I've got 300,000,000 despots of my own in my very back yard to worry about.
Some things we dont have to guess at. The books of the Bible have laid out a map of what will be.
That being said I will continue to try to make this trip as best I can for my family. I was raised to have more than just a few days of food to hold my family,2-4 weeks but now things are different. We I beleive are going to face times like that have never been seen in this country.Once things get further out than a couple of weeks people that havent prepared will be on the hunt for things that will sustain their families. They may ask first, try to buy or barter then they will take. So while it is prudent to have food water and medicine you wont be able to hold it unless you are prepaired to keep it.
mwp
"For that aforementioned raghead, Anonny 7:57, his true name is MooHamMud Koranhole Allahfubar."
More support for my point that I am threatened by Americans, not Muslims. It is not the Muslims who would visit my house to threaten me with prison, should I not pay my "fair share" of tribute to the federal war machine. ParaPacem, would you come to the aid of a US tax collector? Make an anonymous phone call to turn in a tax cheat? How about if the year was 1810, would you turn in a fugitive slave?
Anon at; June 13, 2010 6:58 AM
Nuclear weapons are not like other weapons they require highly specialized production Processes and equipment.
This has two helpful side effects.
1. They can be detected with the proper equipment. Because they give themselves away and they do not scale up or down easily.
2.Damage or destroy these facilities and you can delay or stop production.
Brutus, are you truly enough of a fool to think they will limit themselves to just Israel?
Building the first Nuke is the feat. Then it becomes assembly line work.
Do you know how they refer to cities like San Francisco, L.A., or New York?
Are truly foolish enough to think they would stop with those cesspits.
Do you think uninvolved but deeply religious people like the Mexicans would be left alone?
Go here to find out how the benevolent Shiite Iranian government treats their own people.
http://www.omdurman.org/iran.html#persian
Go here to learn about their tolerance for other faiths.
http://info.bahai.org/article-1-8-3-7.html
Go here to find out how these clowns act in general.
http://www.omdurman.org/deathblog.html
Go here to see how our Honored predecessors dealt with Racially motivated collectivists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=VD89Z0_Rav8&feature=related
Anon at; June 13, 2010 7:57 AM
Just a few questions for you.
How many of those bases have less than 1000 American personnel?
How many have less than 100 under normal operating conditions?
How many are a few acres and a building on the host countries military facility? Intelligence anyone.
How many provide equipment to our allies in the event of war like we would have done with nukes had the cold war gone hot?
How much of that money is just welfare programs hidden in the military budget by progressives?
How much of that money is just infrastructure programs hidden in the military budget?
How much of that money is advanced research done by DARPA that you will spread your ignorance on in the future like you do now on the internet? Another DARPA program thanks DARPA.
How did you get to be so ignorant?
rexxhead the worst case scenario is that Iran supplies its terrorist buddies with those weapons. Like it has with every other man portable weapon they have built or bought. And a few that are not man portable or all that conventional.
The overthrow of the Mossadegh government happened in the context of the cold war.
Your oversimplification of what happened is straight out of the progressive handbook. Nice try.
Brutus if you think we can just stop the world and get off. I have some very bad news for you.
So long as we have to interact with the world. We will have to deal with them.
Read; Target Switzerland, & The Swiss and the Nazis, if you do not want to believe me.
Dan D ... do really believe that the Iranian government is the only government throughout the globe that treats its people bad?
Man, you have got your work cut out for you. We have almost every country South of the border to invade. Almost every country in the African continent. Almost every former East-Block country. Every Middle East country. Not to mention China. AND ... get ready for this ... the united States of America!
Where do YOU personally want to start and give YOUR life and the life of your children in making the world safe for democracy?
Some of you people have been drinking to much neo-con kool-aid. A little to much official government sponsored news-speak.
Heck ... go join the United Nations and be a partaker of global peace, prosperity and the transformation of the global village. You'd make a great spokesmen.
And Iran nuking the uSA? Bwahahahaaaaaaaa!
"How many of those bases have less than 1000 American personnel? How many have less than 100 under normal operating conditions? How many are a few acres and a building on the host countries military facility? Intelligence anyone. How many provide equipment to our allies in the event of war like we would have done with nukes had the cold war gone hot?"
The BATF and the EPA are convinced they know better and they are going to rule you. How many of their field offices are just intelligence outposts and equipment depots? If you approve of imperialism, then why do you complain when you are on the losing side?
"How much of that money is just [pork]"
I don't think that aspect is all that important.
Passing over Iraq would require at least tacit agreement to the raid from Washington. So far, the Obama Administration has refused to give its approval as it pursues a diplomatic solution to curbing Iran’s nuclear ambitions.
No surprises there. No way His Divine Holiness will allow anything to happen to those nice people in Iran. Never mind that they are our avowed enemies. Never mind that the Israelis will work hard to limit collateral damage. Never mind that the nuclear waste from their bomb making efforts would make some nice radiological weapons. We have to be nice to Iran so they will be our friend.
One problem. Being nice to people in most of the world DOESN'T make them our friends, NOR DOES IT make them like or respect us. All being nice does is make them despise us more. Like most of the world, Iran is a dominance-based culture (unlike the U.S. which is based upon co-operation). In such a culture if you do not assume a posture of superiority, you BY DEFAULT are automatically inferior. Gestures meant to show willingness to cooperate are taken as signs of submission. That is why they consider us weak. Because we do not act strong. The only place "Walk softly but carry a big stick" works is here. Elsewhere you have to act like the big dog to be respected. All BHO's overtures and gestures do is DECREASE our security!
The First Rule of Holes:
When you're in one, stop digging.
It is incorrect to claim the CIA overthrew the elected leader of Iran. The CIA had only one asset in the country who lobbied against the elected dictator but a coule million or more Iranians wanted him gone as well. The CIA's efforts are greatly exaggerated by those who intentionally spread lies and rumors.
Brutus you are missing the point. Or is it that you are determined to accept only your world view? How did you miss the point that it is not only their own people they as you so weakly put it "that treats its people bad".
Governments that treat their own people worse are more often than not incapable of doing much outside their own borders. North Korea being a prime example. Contained it is only a waiting game until it collapses.
Now on the other hand you have China which has a cultural historical aversion to expansionism.
Now before anyone goes off about Tibet you better familiarize yourselves with what Chinese consider historical China.
Russia is aware of this and protects their boarders appropriately.
The "good" news is that the one child policy is already taking them off the board. Truly sad I am sorry to say.
Iran is a Dominant Society compromise and cooperation are seen as weakness. They are one of the most expansionist groups in world history. Familiar with the Battle of Thermopylae?
The way people like Obama or yourself deal with them is counter productive at best.
In Twenty to Thirty years Iran's own demographics will take them off the board.
All we have to do is stare them down. Done properly we may not even have to lob in a few cruse missiles now and then.
No invasion necessary. But people like yourself and the self described multiculturalists (talk about a misnomer) just insist on doing the exact wrong thing.
"And Iran nuking the uSA? Bwah..."
The way you fools act towards them convinces them every day that they would face no retaliation.
Ok Gentlemen everyone has some Good points, BUT I BELIEVE WE NEED TO WORK ON THE PROBLEM AT HAND HERE AT HOME! STOP SNIVELING!
DENNIS
III
TEXAS
Well Happy D, I'm going to leave it at this...
First of all, I don't know where you come off with the idea that I am a "multiculturalist", but if you say so ... then it just must be so.
Anyhow.
There is that old adage that says, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
Of course, That doesn't mean that the Persians and Spartans and Romans and Germanians and Athenians and Turks and Syracusans and Ottomans and Boeotians and etc., etc., are once again going to rise up and take over the world.
So ... the Battle of Thermopylae is pretty much a historical artifact and pretty much ... moot today.
But tell me ... when and how do you think the Iranians will invade and conquer the world ... or the uSA for that matter? Or ... or ... Al Qaida and the Taliban?
(You do know that 91/2 years later, we are still chasing down Bin Laden and his dialysis machine in ... in ... Pakistan? And Sadams Tons of WMD disappeared into ... Syria? Lebanon?)
Ya know, just assuming that Iran has ... or is close ... to getting ... the bomb ... if it even so much as twitched, Israel would turn Iran into a sea of glass.
Now, I realize that many people watch all the so called "right-wing I will tell you how to think and what to believe" outlets on what is known as the "boob tube" ... which verifies the U.S. government "fact" that the world is over-run with billions of crazy Muslims armed to the teeth and ready to rape all our daughters ... but the fact is, Iran is not stupid enough, despite all its rhetoric ... real and made up ... to lob a nuke at Israel ... or the uSA. No wait! I forgot ... didn't Bush tell us ... and Obama verify ... that Islam is the religion of peace?
I am sooooooo confused now!
Ahhhh ... but wait! There is the "Al Qaida" and the "Taliban" who are just itching their twitching fingers to get a hold of a nuke ... from ... who ... IRAN! No wait ... Pakistan? No? N. Korea? Shhhh! Maybe ... Russia?
The good Lord didn't see fit to put oil and gas only where there are democratically elected regimes friendly to the United States. Occasionally we have to operate in places where, all things considered, one would not normally choose to go. But, we go where the business is. Dick Cheney
While Iran is not the "benevolent" and freedom loving country that America is ... and while our leaders only wish to bestow upon us the blessings of liberty ...
Iran is not the "enigma" that Dick and his cohorts are concerned about. The enigma is directly North. It is called the Caspian Sea ... Tri$$ions of it. Iran is directly between Irag ... and a ... hard place. And ... it was "just discovered" that Afghanistan contains Tri$$ions in metals and minerals.
By the way, for all you ... "constitutionalists" out there ... has congress declared war or issued a Letter of Marque ... yet?
I find it amusing that to so many of you, when the "government" talks about your freedom and liberty ... you ... laugh, cringe, yawn, yell bullshit ... yet when it takes you to ... war ... you wave your flags and get right behind the very government you ... love to hate and everything they tell you in regards to it ... is just the ho-lee gospel truth.
Marine83 says:
"You call yourself a patriot but the blame America first attitude you are spouting tells a different story."
The last refuge! I'll go kiss the Queens arse and apologize for you. Okay?
All the way!
Anon at;June 14, 2010 9:17 AM or possibly also; June 14, 2010 12:53 AM, and; June 14, 2010 9:17 AM.
Since you do not have the Honor, Courage, or Plain decency to use a Handle, Alias, Name, or Identifier of any kind. I will follow ParaPacem's lead and treat you with the respect you have unearned.
Comparing the U.S. military to the BATF and the EPA? Talk about An Apples to Rhododendrons comparison.
"How much of that money is just [pork]" I put pork in the welfare category.
But you could not have known that.
So which is it are you a foreigner threatened by the U.S. military? Or a citizen?
Or as I suspect a High School or College Kid that has never had to make your Anarchist Beliefs work in the real world where not everyone is in perfect mindless agreement with you? Never mind making them work over a large group or area.
Or worse the all too common Adult anarchist that makes it's living on the dole.
You, perhaps said; "More support for my point that I am threatened by Americans, not Muslims."Threatened by what ParaPacem calling you a mean name?
You said;
"I don't think that aspect is all that important."
Well I am forced to agree with the first Three words of that sentence.
Good bye Anon take care.
Brutus, At least with you I will never have to ask if your are ignorant or just stupid.
What I said."But people like yourself and the self described multiculturalists (talk about a misnomer) just insist on doing the exact wrong thing."
How you interperated it."I don't know where you come off with the idea that I am a "multiculturalist", but if you say so ... then it just must be so."
I said nothing of the sort!
I did however indicate that just like the multiculturalists you are ignorant of other cultures and how they work. As indicated by the words "and the" denoting the existence of two separate groups similarly ignorant.
You said, "There is that old adage that says, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.""
Then you go on to deny history as important."So ... the Battle of Thermopylae is pretty much a historical artifact and pretty much ... moot today."
Interesting the Iranians have a different view. Remember that historically inaccurate comic book of a movie 300?
300 (film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_%28film%29#Controversy
300 Sparks an Outcry in Iran
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1598886,00.html
Iran's Ahmadinejad faults '300'
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/news/article_1276346.php/Iran_s_Ahmadinejad_faults_300
Ever seen one of the Iranian parades where they complain about how they have been mistreated. Representations of all their tormentors make it. Among them the Jews, Ronald Wilson Reagan, the U.S. in general, Saddam, the U.N., the C.I.A., Mossad, and Alexander the Great.
You Again, "Ya know, just assuming that Iran has ... or is close ... to getting ... the bomb ... if it even so much as twitched, Israel would turn Iran into a sea of glass."
I would love to see you apply your logic to a gun fight. You would shoot back only after he killed an innocent bystander, Mortally wounded your friend, Maimed your daughter, and shoot off your left arm. Except your friend shot him first and then died.
I would have got a friend or two and escorted him from the bar.
So all this is a plan to take Caspian sea oil through hostel Iran to the Persian gulf, Instead of through Mostly friendly Azerbaijan, Georgia and/or Armenia, and Turkey to the Black sea and Mediterranean?
Fail political science and Geography?
The long way through Iran?
Fail Economics?
Mountainous Iran, with the valleys and mountains running across the path as opposed to the other route with the valleys more in your favor?
Didn't take a engineering or and technology course I take it?
Also a plan to take mineral resources from Afghanistan the long way through hostile Iran, Instead of the short way through not as hostile Pakistan?
Marine83 sees you for what you are. Also has a good understanding of the Iranian revolutions history. Too bad you did not take the opportunity to learn. I learned many things from this board.
Well I am bored by this posts comments board. It was fun for a while but I have other things to read.
Take care Brutus.
When I see name-calling or other logical fallacies, I conclude the speaker realizes he has run out of arguments, and is trying to distract from conceding his point. You aren't fooling me; are you fooling yourself? The last refuge of a statist is to "end" an argument by a dominance challenge threatening violence, which is what would happen if this argument was held in person in a bar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_calling
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/logic.html
"More support for my point that I am threatened by Americans, not Muslims. / Threatened by what ParaPacem calling you a mean name?"
Threatened by tax collectors and other rule-imposers who ParaPacem will ultimately side with.
"[Who am I?]"
It doesn't matter who I am, my age, my history, my place in society. I don't need to expose myself by putting on an armband to have standing.
Mr. Anonymous
The fact that my friend Happy D bothers to discourse with you at all is interesting.
But do you think for a second that many of the crowd are here incapable of spotting your Marxist Critical theory methods for what they are?
Including your refusal to answer a trivial question about "where you are coming from" so to speak?
A standard Critical theory defensive maneuver.
Happy may not have noticed or even care.
But I think exposing you is good for a laugh.
In the interest of full disclosure I am using Happy D's computer to post this. He left it on. On the desk in the open. I could not resist.
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