Sunday, May 23, 2010

Stupid Army risk aversion in combat zones.

Orders which cannot reasonably expected to be obeyed should not be given.


Moe Death said...

Reminds me of the scene from Aliens, where the corporate puke advises the troops to unload their weapons. The two heavy gunners reload with ammo on the sly and managed to save some of their guys. What idiot came up with this idea? Oh... that's right... we have a Kenyan Commie in the White House.

Anonymous said...

Weapons condition codes. A weapon's readiness/safety status is described by one of four conditions. The steps
in the loading and unloading process take the weapon through four specific levels of readiness for live fire.
(1) Condition 1. To place a weapon in condition 1, a round must be in position to be fired and the safety
must be on.
(2) Condition 2. To place the weapon in condition 2, a round must be in place to be fired, the weapon's
action must be closed, and the hammer must be forward. (This condition only applies to weapons that have external hammers.)
(3) Condition 3. To place a weapon in condition 3, a source of ammunition is in position to be
chambered, the chamber is empty, the bolt is closed and the weapon is on safe.
(4) Condition 4. To place a weapon in condition 4 all sources of ammunition are removed, the chamber
is empty, the bolt is closed and the weapon is on safe.


Brutus said...

This is what happens when operating under the supervision of the "Coalition of the Willing" ... NATO and/or the U.N.

Really, it is time to bring these boys home ... surround D.C., guns point IN and tell those idiots to surrender.

After all:


Diesel said...

Risk averse chain of command strikes again. Having an ND doesn't look good on the FITREP, and might delay promotion, and we all know that getting promoted is the end goal everyone strives for, right?
This is why military ranges are always run as cold ranges, and civilian schools like Gunsite run hot ranges.

Anonymous said...

It's past time to pull our men and women home. We are not fighting over there and have lost any goals we may have once had. All we will done from this point forward is to loose good people we will need here to rebuild out republic.


Dennis308 said...

I would be court marshaled because Any and Every time that I would leave base I would have a Round chambered.The only time I would not have a round chambered is on base and not on Guard Detail.There are two fail safe safeties on most combat rifles one is your finger out of the trigger guard and the second is a mechanical device on the weapon.Before anyone gets their panties twisted yes I Know the Nagant has no mechanical safety so You keep Your F--king Finger outside the trigger guard.
Thank You, Class Dismissed.


Anonymous said...

This is as stupid as pulling a hay rake through the field with the tines set too high. Why run the equipment and put wear on the bearings and compact the ground?

Hierarchy always makes an ass of itself. That's because hierarchy is based on authority.

And Authoritah! is based only on one thing - I'm smarter than you.

Yeah, right, Caleb.


P.S. I'm Mennonite. I won't be joining in your festivities; I only want to know when they begin. You're intelligence. War and protecting my family are two different things, only one I don't participate in.

Anonymous said...

"Negligent Discharge", "Deadly Force"....sounds like law enforcement terms that cops patrolling the Bronx or Shaker Heights would be familiar with. Not some Army or Marine grunt in a combat zone.

It's time to get our troops OUT of Afghanistan and the other 180+ countries we occupy.

Oh....and the officers who have ordered the troops to patrol without loaded weapons....they're the same officers who will order American troops to fire on American citizens.


Taylor H said...

*epic face palm* Why not send them out in orange hunter vests too?

Chuck Martel said...

I remember how well that worked out in 1983 at the Marine barracks in Lebanon.

Anonymous said...

What if we all die peacefully in our beds and leave for our children and grandchildren the legacy of our defeat only for them to endure the horrors of absolute totalitarianism?

Dick said...

I saw this idiot stuff under Johnson and Nixon I was in Nam. I saw it happen again to brother Marines under Reagan in Lebanon.

Put the damn weapons in Condition 1. Put witness wire on the safeties to keep the fobbits happy. Done.

straightarrow said...

In Viet Nam during the early days all weapons on patrol were unloaded. One man carried the patrol's ammo. If contact was made he was then supposed to pass it out. Didn't take Charlie long to figure out "Shoot the guy with the big pack first".

Well, that was the policy, nobody obeyed it, once outside the wire, everybody locked and loaded. The policy was changed, but it seems idiocy still inhabits the military command structure.

Dakota said...

Dumb asses commanding troops in the field. The long and short of it!!!

Anonymous said...

"Commanders have ordered a U.S. military unit in Afghanistan to patrol with unloaded weapons, according to a source in Afghanistan."

Commanders from where?
NATO? UN? That I could remotely, possibly believe.
US? It better no be so.

I'd rather risk being alive for an Art One-Five,
then obeying an order that will surely, inevitably get me killed.

B Woodman

Diogenes said...

My only thought on that when I first heard of it was: "there are going to be more courts-martials and funerals coming out of that mess."

I wonder how many of those "medals" will be given posthumously?

Even when I carry concealed, my 1911 is in condition 1. IF I have to draw it, I am not questioning intent at that point and I see no reason to have to decide on racking a round or not. Our Generals could use some ground time with the E-1's through E-5's. They may figure out having ammo ready to 'rock and roll' is a proven life saver.

Tom Wolff said...

Sheer stupidity.

If every one of my guns has a round chambered or in front of the hammer in the middle of the Good Ol' USA, then WTF reason would there be to NOT have my weapon ready in a potential combat zone?

Some guy said that you can chamber and fire a round in about a second and a half. A lame attempt at defending a stupid philosophy?

Hmm, I can draw any of my autoloaders and put 3 tight holes in something in 7/10's of a second or less. Do the math, fella.

Dennis, no offense, man, but I'd have a round chambered on base, too. Maybe not SOP, but it's my funeral.

Anonymous said...

Email sent to Sam Johnson and followed up with call to his office.

I hope someone loses their brass over this idiocy.


deewhite said...

Look, I'm not very bright. Would someone please explain to me in simple terms why an American soldier is taking orders from NATO Internal Security Assistance Force. Thank-you,

Pericles said...

1st lesson taught to me - never get yourself into a situation where you will give an order that will not be obeyed.

Walter said...

Re the "risk averse" military, here is what my son, currently deployed in Afghanistan had to say: "I know on the FOB we are supposed to be in Amber, but as far as patrolling in Red we still do, other areas may not, it is up to local commanders to enforce this or not enforce this, I am almost always in Red thou, I figure I will take the hit if I am caught, an Infantryman who cant manage his weapon shouldn't be an Infantryman"

W W Woodward said...

The outfit I work for requires officers transporting inmates to do so with an empty chamber in their Glocks. Of course, that policy is for the most part ignored.

Additionally, the idiots that wrote the policy are never involved in transports.


Lonnie said...

i always carry condition one, 13 in the mag and one in the pipe. my trigger finger is my safty! just keep your booger hook off the bang button!

CowboyDan said...

"And Authoritah! is based only on one thing - I'm smarter than you."
You left out the unofficial version - "My penis is bigger than yours." Of course, that, like having a newer, shinier rifle, or a bigger faster car, means nothing if you don't know how to use it properly.

"Oh....and the officers who have ordered the troops to patrol without loaded weapons....they're the same officers who will order American troops to fire on American citizens."

"Pssst - Hey, Lt., catch!" solves THAT problem. Take one out, and the rest learn pretty quickly. They may be stupid, but they're not that stupid. Okay, some are. "You want to play, too, Lt.?"

Bill (Bad Cyborg) Mullins said...

I keep both mine ready at all times. The Glock I keep beside my bed is at what passes for condition 1 in a Glock. The Baby Eagle I keep at technically condition 2 but since the BE is single/double action it is just as easy to fire from 2 as 1.

The orders are a perfect example of what I call "Mullins' Law" - "nothing is impossible to the one who doesn't have to do it" with the zeroth level being "nothing hurts if it doesn't hurt me". If survivors of troops KIA due to stupid administrative tricks like this could sue the officer giving the order - and the entire chain of command - for negligence, shit like this would greatly reduce.

Woodman's got it right. Even if you're convicted they got parole from prison - ain't no parole from a pine box.

Lonnie said...

a friend of mine was a marine who went to cuba durring the missle crissis and all they had when they got there was blanks! i flew the east german border in the '70's and although we had mini-guns on the kiowa's we wern't issued ammo even though we were painted by sam's and ZSU-23-4's. they wouldn't even give us rounds for our .38's in our flight vest. so i went to the rod&gun club and bought a box of ammo and my .38 was always loaded and the extra ammo was in my flight vest!