The ORIGINAL gathering place for a merry band of Three Percenters. (As denounced by Bill Clinton on CNN!)
The May 4th Shootings at Kent State University: The Search for Historical Accuracy.
Historical Accuracy...Now there's an oxymoron for you. I'm going to file that away with my other favorites: Military Intelligence, Tactical Nuclear Weapon, and my all time favorite, Cherry Tart.
What almost nobody mentions is that before the National Guard was called in the "Protesters" had set fire to the ROTC building and interfered with firefighters on the scene. At that point that "protest" HAD to be shut down, hard. Doubtless the little idiots who torched the building were thinking in symbolic terms openly, but a fire the size of a building is not under anyone's control. That the arsonists were not the cause of a major fire that killed people and destroyed property having nothing to do with their intended symbolism was sheer dumb luck.I suppose that the Authorities were hoping that the introduction of the Guard, in uniform, would jar the students into some kind of awareness that playtime was over. Not that they had much voice; the local police were totally overmatched, and the Ohio State Police of that era were a bunch of blue-collar types who mighty well have waded in with nightsticks and killed a lot more than four people.The Liberal/Progressive Left loves to wring hands over Kent State, but doesn't want to examinee the limits of legitimate protest. Once you set fire to a building, you are not a protester, you are a public menace.
I remember sitting on an ammo box in Cambodia, Fire base Snuffy, and reading about this in the Stars and Stripes. I remember thinking, "What's this shit all about?" Later I was evacuated for malaria, and a slight wound (did not receive a Purple Heart. Looking at you, John Kerry) They were still talking about it on TV, and as I watched from a hospital bed, a young Lt. came up and offered me an AR-15 for catching malaria. I remember thinking, "What's this shit all about?" My fever hadn't broke yet, I felt like hell, and some asshole wants to fine me and put a bad mark on my record, because I caught a disease that kills millions of people. I took all my pills, but got sick anyway (damn near died). Also had Dengue fever. Epiphany. My govt. is a bunch of idiots. That's what caused Kent State. Give live ammo to a bunch of week-end warriors, and let them load their guns, some body is going to die.
This article and all of the descriptions of the Kent State shootings are all presentations ofa bunch of 'bleeding hearts' that want the 'poor, unarmed, college student protesters' to appear ascourageous 'martyrs' against theViet Nam War and government policies. What a crock of shit !!If they'd been expending their energy working on what they were at college for, 'getting an education', and not done property damage, challenged the authorities, and dispersed when directed to, they wouldn't have had any of their numbers killed or wounded. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. Points that this and all the other referenced articles don't mention at all, may have changed a lot of people's opinions about this incident. 1. I personally saw the photos of the three large tables piled with weapons that were removed from dormitories at Kent State University. Those photographs only appeared one time, and were never seen by the public again. 2. The supposedly 'undercover' FBI agent that was at Kent State and fired his weapon 6 times, andadmitted it initially, then recanted his story later on, was never mentioned. This action was probably led guardsmen to believe they were under fire.3. The Guardsmen should have shot more of the protesters !! They had reason to believe they were under fire when the 6 shots were fired behind them. "The indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable." This statement is absolute bull shit too.
Based on Mike's recounting of his communist activities, it looks very much like Kent State was started by SDS style activists who were probably thrilled by the bloody end to the whole affair.Somebody got these kids all wound up, the result of which got some of them killed. The deaths of the students were used to push an agenda by those who despise the US.And government played right into the hands of those who were agitating and fomenting the demonstrations at Kent State.The really cool thing, though? We now have a government that has grabbed as much power as it possibly can, without being overt about it. The next Kent State will give government the excuse it needs to openly become the power mad thug it aspires to be.My .02.-Blake
I'd say the Ohio National Guard General who gave the order to lock and load with live ammo, along with the Governor of Ohio are the real knuckleheads in this story. Seems obvious to me the State of Ohio lacked adult supervision during this particular goat-rope. The "adults" screw it up, and the 18-year-olds get the blame. Does the story ever change?
when i was in hs here in ohio, the trials for the ng was going on. my lit teacher(didnt like her)would rant and rave about the gov rhodes, and why he sent them in. my take on the mess is,,,,,,,,,,why the H3LL didnt the school shut down? kent was in turmoil and the school was in chaos, and the admin was still holding classes?
the adults screw up? really, those "students" were heaving rocks bigger than your fist. that is adw, assault with a deadly weapon!
a local(cincinnati) radio host told a story. when at college in dayton, he went to see a radio station empl. on his table was a large rock, asked what the rock was for. the empl was at ks, and it was one of the rocks that the "students" threw at him.
As a side effect of Kent State, these days most Guard deployments are under the "Barney Fife" rules of engagement: no ammo.Of course, that's a bit better than the Marines who marched in Obama's second inaugural with no bolts in their weapons.
"it looks very much like Kent State was started by SDS style activists" --- yes, agree, accepted history seems whitewashed or re-writtena) Jerry Rubin & Bernadine Dohrn bused into Kent with provocateurs regularly urging the local students to "kill your parents to start the revolution" - - - they also tried to provoke/ incite at Akron U (15 miles West of Kent) the week preceding May 4, but there they got roughed up pretty bad while APD, FBI, US Marshalls quietly observed... their buses limped back to Kent b) heightened crowd frenzy each subsequent visit scared the Kent city council shitless, and over-reaction was not a consideration to themc) Fri they closed bars early resulting in huge crowds of pist-off regular people with no war-axe to grind, yet easily coaxed into mob action type stuffd) then, Guard was called in right from month-long 24/7 duty patrolling Ohio hiways during Teamster strike violence a perfect-storm for SDS/ BUS/ Weather Underground violence
We got a good song out of it by CSNY. More importantly, we can now ask this question after 45 years...do white lives matter?
Bunch of Draft Dodgers (The Guard) shooting anti War protesters. The irony of the whole episode. It was well known that the Guard, during Vietnam, was a way to avoid the Draft and the war. Join the guard and you were safe. I had just completed Basic at Ft Dix and was waiting transport to Ft Leonard Wood and eventually Ft Benning for OCS. SGT came in and announced that the guard had just shot "Some Hippies" in Ohio. I expected a trip to Nam, never got it. Oh well, at least I didn't have to shoot "Hippies".
These so called "demonstrators" were nothing but communist party "useful idiots".....nothing more. I feel nothing for anyone shot, killed or otherwise. We are facing the same groups today, only on steroids. Read David Horowitz book Radical Son and find out the truth of what was going on in that period. He was a communist party member, a high ranking one. Like Mike V he figured it out and turned his life and his politics around.The commie fucks were behind all of the bullshit. They wanted to destroy America and turn it over to our enemies. We face the same problems now except they changed tactics and class of people. Now we have the blacks tearing down at the orders of the same assholes ...just a different generation. A race war is being cultivated with great success. What do you suppose will happen when the bogus charges against those 6 cops in Baltimore become something that can't hold water in a court of law? There is nothing racist about this view. I call it as I see it .... get ready for it, this can be the trigger for martial law. Who knows what the George Soros, Black Panther, CPUSA have planned. You can bet that it will not be good for America I can assure you.
I would suggest that a mob advancing towards a handful of Guardsmen armed with M-16s has nothing to complain about when some get shot.A mob is a deadly danger.The only mistake was that rather than receiving an actual order to fire, the guardsmen were left to their own initiative to shoot. 6 dead? thats a slow weekend in Chicago.
"The adults screw up " observation was intended to point out that if you puts 18-year-olds within live ammo in a bad, stressful situation and then wet your pants when they fire their weapons, it seems to me the "leadership" that set the pieces on the board didn't think it through. After all, it did go to hell, didn't it. Want to see the pictures?
Americans are constantly bombarded by the War Hawks that the American fighting man is a true freedom fighter. No so. The dead Kent State students are the REAL freedom fighters. How they knew the Vietnam war was wrong at such an early age is commendable. I was the Kent State student's age back then myself, but I was helping murder Vietnam citizens in an unnecessary war.I am a Vietnam veteran. I'm not proud of my time served during the Vietnam war. Vietnam was a total failure and an unnecessary war. The US invaded a sovereign country and murdered thousands of Vietnamese citizens. What was the purpose for the Vietnam War? Who did the US liberate in Vietnam? Robert McNamara admitted Vietnam was unnecessary and a tragic mistake, but too late. Read Robert McNamara's book, "In Retrospect." He said we owe the Vietnam people and American soldier an apology for starting that war. Youtube videos have McNamara saying the same thing.Total deaths in the Vietnam War (1965–1974) per Gunther Lewy were 1,313,000, including 587,000 civilians. These figures do not include the thousands upon thousands of lives who die a slow lingering death each year from all manner of cancers and diseases attributed to the indiscriminate use of Agent Orange in Vietnam.Yep, the real freedom fighters are those who oppose tyranny and oppressive governments.
@3: "3. The Guardsmen should have shot more of the protesters !!"Especially given that 2 of the resulting dead weren't even involved in the protest....
@Anonymous: "that's a bit better than the Marines who marched in Obama's second inaugural with no bolts in their weapons."If only Anwar Sadat would have thought of that....
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