So everybody kicked in how much ammo they had and of what types. Of course, from an OPSEC point of view this is pretty stupid, but they are a trusting lot. I even made my own contribution, but as you will see, it doesn't give much hope for the ATF PR coup.
One post did attract my eye, from JustJoe. Quoth JJ:
So here is a question: If you knew that you could never buy any more ammo, how much would you buy? What is a lifetime supply of ammunition?
Figure range sessions once a month, 100 rounds handgun, 40 rounds center fire rifle, and 200 rounds rimfire. Throw in 100 rounds of shotgun, too. Figure that you will be shooting for 20 to 40 years, and that adds up to quite a pile, even if you reload. You also have to add in training ammo for anyone you introduce to guns.
For twenty years supply, (240 months) would be 48K rounds of 22, 24K handgun rounds, and almost 10K each for rifle and shotgun. This would be spread across whatever calibers you need.
At today’s prices, that would run around $2000 for the rimfire (at $20/brick), about $7000 for rifle, $6000 for shotgun, and $12000 for handgun, without reloading.
Total: $27,000.00 for a lifetime? supply of ammunition. YMMV
I suspect that you could get a quantity discount to do better than that, but its a starting point.
I could see finding enough room to store several cases of 22’s, but I have no idea how big a pile the rest is going to be.
To which I responded thusly:
"So here is a question: If you knew that you could never buy any more ammo, how much would you buy? What is a lifetime supply of ammunition?"
Twenty rounds and all you can scavenge out of dead men's ammo pouches.
"I suspect that you could get a quantity discount to do better than that, but its a starting point."
Maybe, but my plan has the advantage of being free. There is, however, a little risk involved -- you must act like a free man. If ammo is banned, the war starts. Anything else is arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
As a famous blogger once said, "Give me liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."
20 comments:
I'd be happy with six or seven rounds, a good knife, and a decent handgun of some sort. The rest would take care of itself. You could go with just a knife or blunt instrument with a bit of subterfuge with maybe an accomplice or two and go from there, you don't even really need a blade.
People have been doing it for thousands of years and hundreds of years since the invention of firearms.
Average number of shots fired in a gunfight is around 5 if one were to go by LEO statistics.
Will to live free matters more than gear. Study Finland a bit. They were always the underdog yet in my book they came out on top every time (until recently when they took pity on islamist insurgents and made homes for them). As a Russian General officer said about the war in which the Russians won a portion of Finland at great cost, "We won just enough land to bury our dead generated by this war."
I realize that one can get by with a few rounds and go from there. I however prefer a corner of a basement with 20 or 30 50cal cans full and awaiting my embraces. Kinda like a security "blankie" that society won't let me have anymore.
to answer both questions, "how much would you buy?"
i already have it.
"What is a lifetime supply of ammunition?"
i already have it.
A Vietnam vet I was friendly with before moving said about the same thing - he had an SMLE III or IV and a hundred or so rounds. No AR, no M1A, etc., nothing modern. He said that Mr. Smelly could kill a man just as dead at 300 of 400 yards now as in WW1 or WW2, and that he'd take the rifle and ammo (and grenades, radios, clothing, etc.) of anyone he pleased, should push come to shove.
BTW, some folks across the pond have noticed our situation: http://theylaughedatnoah.blogspot.com/2009/01/preparing-for-abolition-of-freedom-in.html
Read the comments to it - I signed off as I'm doing here.
BTW, Tom, you don't need a blade if you're stealthy or have a friend to use for distraction - a rock will suffice. Depends how firm we wish to be in defending ourselves. Of course, I'd rather have a rifle or a handgun to start, but it surely isn't an absolute requirement.
There's always the Ayalon Institute method.....
My response at Snowflake's:
Twenty rounds and all you can scavenge out of dead men's ammo pouches.
Hmm, isn’t this exactly what the Bielski partisans did?
It actually presents a bit of a dilema. Should it come to TEOTWAWKI, and all your ammo is in your house, but you need to bug out, do you really have the room / time to ship all your stash to your hide out?
Also, remember what Boston is fond of saying:
"Ammo turns money into skill. It's better to have 900 rounds of skill and 100 rounds of ammo than 1,000 rounds of ammo and no skill."
If you aren't that good with a rifle or handgun, PRACTICE! I'm guessing that these next couple years will be the LAST chance you'll have to attend shooting schools, acquire necessary skills, and prepare yourself.
A lifetime suppy of ammunition consists of the round currently residing in the chamber of the rifle a man carries.
Think about it...
Funny you should hit on the OPSEC thing, Mike. I had typed in all the ammo in all the various calibers I have, reread it to make sure it was accurate, and then closed the window. No sense telling folks what you have, especially when it can be a surprise.
As a famous blogger once said, "Give me liberty, or I'll get up and get it myself."
Could you give a name so I could use this as a tag line?
Just like the Sgt. Major said at the Ia Drang Valley, "if I need a rifle I'll be able to pick one up if and when I need one" it's not the exact quote, I paraphrase his words.
It's a good attitude and spirit to have - to not obsess over gear.
Skill is more important than gear, and resolve is most important of all.
However, it is still true that it is better to start the dance with a rifle in your hand than to rely on creative procurement in the midst of the festivities.
I hope when the time comes these pseudo American gun dealers get what is coming them for this short sited small minded greed driven practice of driving gun prices up as a result of the vote recount that is taking place across America.
I would think that real Patriots and Citizens would desire to see more guns and ammo in the hands of their neighbors and citizens.
I have watched the same gun dealers over the course of the past several months increase the prices on the exact same guns, triple and quadruple of what they were. (exact same guns, just different price tags)
I understand supply and demand concepts; however, if the fear that is generating these sales is a gun grab or a systemic collapse of our economy. I would believe that you would want more guns in the hands of the citizenry than less…..
Silly me, but I subscribe to the theory that it is the amount of firepower in the hands of Americans that has kept our freedoms to this point. Consequently, more is better.
I would rather see 20 Homes on the street with mil-spec weapons than two. But when guys are charging 300-400 for cheap little SKS rifles at the bottom end of the spectrum and a family has 500 to spend……they are disarming their countrymen!
In my mind these greedy gun dealers go in the same bag as the other folks that would disarm the people…they are all about keeping the numbers of guns and ammo in the hands of Americans down and the amount of our money in their pocket up. The Methods differ but the results are the same.
Maybe they will have each others back when the shtf but Osama Bin Laden has more honor than these people.
Highland warrior,
You don't appear to understand supply and demand. If you keep the prices the same, and everyone is panicked, one man will buy more firearms than he ordinarily would. Higher prices ensure that more people are able to have a chance at getting a firearm. Prices are not arbitrarily set by dealers. They're set by the demand. It does little good to have a line of 100 people waiting to buy 100 $500 Avtomat Kalashnikova clones, when the first twenty guys buy two or three each. With higher prices, there is a greater chance that more than a few of the first in line are able to buy a product.
tjbbpgobIII,
I think that crusty old Sgt Major said, "Sir, if it comes to that, I reckon there'll be plenty of 'em lyin' around."
Another Consideration:
Anyone who has been at the range just before qualifications knows that one cannot often use the terms "police" and "accurate fire" in the same sentence. :) In terms of an assault, this will generally mean that any solid object within 100 yards of your house will have a bullet hole in it, including all the dogs and maybe even a baby that was sleeping in her crib. If you're using the same, or nearly the same caliber as the JBTs are, you are likely going to be accused of being the shooter ('cause you know *they'd* never do such a thing).
Once you've exfiltrated the kill zone and can dictate the battlespace a bit more, then it might not matter so much what you're shooting, as it will be pretty clear as to who is shooting in what direction.
Yeh Luke, that must have been what he said, sounds better coming from someone else anyway.
Although I have a large order "in process", I expect I'll really only act as the canary in the coalmine for the rest of you who are better prepared and in better shape (should it ever come to that).
In that regard, a few hubdred rounds will surely outlast me.
On the other hand, I would dearly love to know how many rounds I can safely give away ;-)
Speaking of rounds, the .45-70 is my ultimate cartridge. In my opinion, nothing speaks with more authority than that. Since reloading .45-70s is both fun and educational I am always well stocked, in both ammo and all components needed to load more. I don't hunt but I do a lot of shooting on private land upstate, and I usually hit silhouettes out as far as 1600 yards, repeatedly. Marksmanship has been my obsession since I first studied the Holocaust and Nanjing Massacre. I would have given anything to sit in a nice patch of vegetation on a hill overlooking Warsaw from 1000-2500 yards in 1942 and smash the Nazi murderers one after another with my trusty Rolling Block. The motherf*ckers won't even know what hit them. I bet they won't even be thinking "Juden Haben Waffen" when their pitiful lives are snuffed out.
Thunder itself isn't sufficient. It must be followed by lightning, wind, and rain.
Maybe, but my plan has the advantage of being free. There is, however, a little risk involved -- you must act like a free man. If ammo is banned, the war starts. Anything else is arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
The Zumbo's of the world just crit their pants.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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