There will always be the mental midgets that exclaim, "I was just following orders".
There seems to be an increasing number of these troglodytes in the "police" forces in our country. As noted in the TSA, sexually molesting folks, and now, they are ramping up "random" searches in bus stations, and coming to a train station near you.
I recently visited with an Army E-8 about to retire. I tried to talk about Oath Keepers and got essentially the same sort of answer. The senior NCO with whom I was visiting could not visualize being given such orders and Mr. Rhodes has posted at OK. He trusted his chain of command. But he also said that if he WERE given an order to do something that LOOKED like one of the 10 he trusted the chain of command enough that he would still obey the order.
He also disagreed that the part of his oath that was to protect/defend the Constitution was separable from and superior to his oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over him. So he could not be true to the former without being true to the latter.
Bottom line - for me anyhow - is that the numbers of oath keepers is going to be very small. The insurrection is going to have to kill a lot of guys who are actually honorable but simply understand their oath differently.
"I get on plane, I arrive, I check in, I get into MRAP, I acquire target, and I squeeze my trigger... Do that many times then I go home... So why ask why?"
Umm, he just posed the question, "...why ask why?" which ought to indicate that even pramatists require a rationale. ;^)
More to the point, target acquisition and trigger control are only techniques--the "how".
By contrast, knowing who is your enemy and who is your friend and why he ought or ought not to be the object of homicidal intent requires discernment and wisdom.
Otherwise, we fall into the well-known trap, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." Men who hold this ruthless view are themselves a worthy object of homicidal intent.
Oath Keepers is just one tactic to shape the coming battle. Those personnel, like that E8, who pride themselves on their submissive ignorance, will never honor their Oath to the Constitution. They can't, as they have never read and understood the ideas contained in that document, they swore to support and defend.
Once civil conflict erupts, Oath Keepers' peacetime mission is ended. We are all III, at that point. We won't reach everyone, but each one, who awakens to their duty to refuse unlawful orders, counts as two. Minus one pawn for the bad guys and plus one patriot for the good guys.
Then they'll have to deal with the 3%. And if they think that will be easy they can just check out this unarmed woman running and then jumping on top of the getaway car in a crime. Listen to what she says at the end. It is more important than anything she did physically. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/texas-woman-chases-men-trying-to-steal-beer-from-walmart/
The arrogant punks were caught. There were no surprises when it came to the heroine or the punks either. I could have made book on that.
So who is going to go to heroic lengths when defending themselves and others against lawless aggression? Citizens like this woman who act out of solid moral convictions or the authorized outlaw? Tread lightly, Oathbreakers. It's only a paycheck.
Somebody hand that woman an AR15 and start training her to command.
And I got reamed by the Poster a year ago when I suggested that the so called defenders of liberty and our constitution had no concept of the parameters of the Constitution or how to defend it against enemies, either foreign or domestic. Welcome aboard gents, better late than never. Oh, and as was the case last time, I expect a lot of threats and comments about my (alleged) lack of willingness and ability to fight. Such comments coming from misguided (and often very old) “patriots” concern me no more than such comments from Marxists. Such threats and comments are imprudent, arrogant and naïve. Where is the uprising over the events in Tucson?? No more Waco’s???? Riiiight. Keep up the saber rattling and the threats, they are so effective.
People from the cities where unlawful raids take place have to take care of that the best they can. You do NOT know what they are doing about it. Do you really expect that all courses of action have so soon been exhausted and the pickaxes and rakes should come out?
Look. Someone breaks into your home and rapes your wife..it is first and foremost YOUR problem. Maybe you'll just stand there with your thumb up your arse. Likely won't be so with other men. Wouldn't want to be the ones who storm the wrong house.
Maybe the problem is you got a limp saber that never rattled, eh? They got stuff for that.
Yes, Mike, and everybody, that is the work of the Oath Keepers, ie.: to educate citizens of the United States about the Constitution (and related documents) and a citizen's responsibilities thereto pertaining.
The expectation of this effort (sadly) yields a mere 3%, but (gladly) this should suffice.
Re: Bad Cyborg X%er @ June 22, 2011 6:14 AM . . . .
I'm not surprised about the comments of the Master Sergeant referenced by Bad Cyborg. Perhaps the ignorant MSG isn't aware of history and the Nuremberg trials ? The Nazis being tried used the same excuse....that they were following orders.
I guess the MSG never heard of an "unlawful order".
Troops serving under the US flag are not our friends. Lock and Load....that's what it's coming down to.
DAN III
PS. Screw Rhodes and his executive board hypocrites at Oath Keepers.
For Anonymous at 11:39 PM: "Nuremberg Trials" are done by the victor to the loser.
And the oath the MSG took SPECIFICALLY does not give enlisted men, including NCOs, the out to disobey ANY order, no matter how unlawful. Right or wrong, only the officers' oath gives that out. And The Perfumed Princes and Princesses have clearly made that meaningless by their conviction and imprisonment of Colonel Lakin.
May they rot in hell (along with the pigs) for what they have done to this country!
Prison gangs, LEOs, Street gangs, Military, all have something in common. They all harbor some individuals who will do anything someone in a position of "authority" tells them to do.
Members of these groups have been indoctrinated to view anyone who is not a member of the "gang" as, at the very least, someone-who-cannot-be-trusted. And, the someone-who-cannot-be-trusted will invariably side with the gang's declared enemy.
Himmler's blackshirts, Capone's hitmen, FBI/BATFE SWAT snipers, and combat soldiers do what the man who passes out the pay cheques tells them to do. That's the reality and that's what all of us need to understand and learn to live with.
In the end, right and wrong will have absolutely nothing to do with it. The winners write the history books.
I’m not saying, “Don’t resist.” I am saying, ”Fight to win or don’t bother.”
Am I cynical? Yeah, I guess so. Been around - seen too much.
15 comments:
"They" will always be able to find willing trigger fingers. The trick is to make to those fingers disappear from their arsenal.
There will always be the mental midgets that exclaim, "I was just following orders".
There seems to be an increasing number of these troglodytes in the "police" forces in our country. As noted in the TSA, sexually molesting folks, and now, they are ramping up "random" searches in bus stations, and coming to a train station near you.
I dunno, doesn't look good for the future.
Bob
III
I recently visited with an Army E-8 about to retire. I tried to talk about Oath Keepers and got essentially the same sort of answer. The senior NCO with whom I was visiting could not visualize being given such orders and Mr. Rhodes has posted at OK. He trusted his chain of command. But he also said that if he WERE given an order to do something that LOOKED like one of the 10 he trusted the chain of command enough that he would still obey the order.
He also disagreed that the part of his oath that was to protect/defend the Constitution was separable from and superior to his oath to obey the orders of the officers appointed over him. So he could not be true to the former without being true to the latter.
Bottom line - for me anyhow - is that the numbers of oath keepers is going to be very small. The insurrection is going to have to kill a lot of guys who are actually honorable but simply understand their oath differently.
Gonna get MEAN friends. Gonna
Get
MEAN!
Bad Cyborg X%er
"I get on plane, I arrive, I check in, I get into MRAP, I acquire target, and I squeeze my trigger... Do that many times then I go home... So why ask why?"
Umm, he just posed the question, "...why ask why?" which ought to indicate that even pramatists require a rationale. ;^)
More to the point, target acquisition and trigger control are only techniques--the "how".
By contrast, knowing who is your enemy and who is your friend and why he ought or ought not to be the object of homicidal intent requires discernment and wisdom.
Otherwise, we fall into the well-known trap, "Kill them all and let God sort them out." Men who hold this ruthless view are themselves a worthy object of homicidal intent.
MALTHUS
Oath Keepers is just one tactic to shape the coming battle. Those personnel, like that E8, who pride themselves on their submissive ignorance, will never honor their Oath to the Constitution. They can't, as they have never read and understood the ideas contained in that document, they swore to support and defend.
Once civil conflict erupts, Oath Keepers' peacetime mission is ended. We are all III, at that point. We won't reach everyone, but each one, who awakens to their duty to refuse unlawful orders, counts as two. Minus one pawn for the bad guys and plus one patriot for the good guys.
Then they'll have to deal with the 3%. And if they think that will be easy they can just check out this unarmed woman running and then jumping on top of the getaway car in a crime. Listen to what she says at the end. It is more important than anything she did physically. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/22/texas-woman-chases-men-trying-to-steal-beer-from-walmart/
The arrogant punks were caught. There were no surprises when it came to the heroine or the punks either. I could have made book on that.
So who is going to go to heroic lengths when defending themselves and others against lawless aggression? Citizens like this woman who act out of solid moral convictions or the authorized outlaw? Tread lightly, Oathbreakers. It's only a paycheck.
Somebody hand that woman an AR15 and start training her to command.
And I got reamed by the Poster a year ago when I suggested that the so called defenders of liberty and our constitution had no concept of the parameters of the Constitution or how to defend it against enemies, either foreign or domestic. Welcome aboard gents, better late than never. Oh, and as was the case last time, I expect a lot of threats and comments about my (alleged) lack of willingness and ability to fight. Such comments coming from misguided (and often very old) “patriots” concern me no more than such comments from Marxists. Such threats and comments are imprudent, arrogant and naïve. Where is the uprising over the events in Tucson?? No more Waco’s???? Riiiight. Keep up the saber rattling and the threats, they are so effective.
People from the cities where unlawful raids take place have to take care of that the best they can. You do NOT know what they are doing about it. Do you really expect that all courses of action have so soon been exhausted and the pickaxes and rakes should come out?
Look. Someone breaks into your home and rapes your wife..it is first and foremost YOUR problem. Maybe you'll just stand there with your thumb up your arse. Likely won't be so with other men. Wouldn't want to be the ones who storm the wrong house.
Maybe the problem is you got a limp saber that never rattled, eh? They got stuff for that.
So why ask why?
Drink Bud Dry!
Yes, Mike, and everybody, that is the work of the Oath Keepers, ie.: to educate citizens of the United States about the Constitution (and related documents) and a citizen's responsibilities thereto pertaining.
The expectation of this effort (sadly) yields a mere 3%, but (gladly) this should suffice.
Refugees from natural selection in need of selecting.
Re: Bad Cyborg X%er @ June 22, 2011 6:14 AM . . . .
I'm not surprised about the comments of the Master Sergeant referenced by Bad Cyborg. Perhaps the ignorant MSG isn't aware of history and the Nuremberg trials ? The Nazis being tried used the same excuse....that they were following orders.
I guess the MSG never heard of an "unlawful order".
Troops serving under the US flag are not our friends. Lock and Load....that's what it's coming down to.
DAN
III
PS. Screw Rhodes and his executive board hypocrites at Oath Keepers.
For Anonymous at 11:39 PM:
"Nuremberg Trials" are done by the victor to the loser.
And the oath the MSG took SPECIFICALLY does not give enlisted men, including NCOs, the out to disobey ANY order, no matter how unlawful. Right or wrong, only the officers' oath gives that out. And The Perfumed Princes and Princesses have clearly made that meaningless by their conviction and imprisonment of Colonel Lakin.
May they rot in hell (along with the pigs) for what they have done to this country!
Prison gangs, LEOs, Street gangs, Military, all have something in common. They all harbor some individuals who will do anything someone in a position of "authority" tells them to do.
Members of these groups have been indoctrinated to view anyone who is not a member of the "gang" as, at the very least, someone-who-cannot-be-trusted. And, the someone-who-cannot-be-trusted will invariably side with the gang's declared enemy.
Himmler's blackshirts, Capone's hitmen, FBI/BATFE SWAT snipers, and combat soldiers do what the man who passes out the pay cheques tells them to do. That's the reality and that's what all of us need to understand and learn to live with.
In the end, right and wrong will have absolutely nothing to do with it. The winners write the history books.
I’m not saying, “Don’t resist.” I am saying, ”Fight to win or don’t bother.”
Am I cynical? Yeah, I guess so. Been around - seen too much.
[W3]
I wonder what would happen if one went to enlist and insisted on swearing the Officers' Oath.
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