Please explain to me what it is that Putin is getting away with. Stop drinking the establishment cool-aid and read some foreign news sources. Please read many and make up your own mind.
The connection between ISIS and Turkey is hardly lacking in evidence, if the Russians are claiming that their involvement in the region has given them access to new intelligence which suggests a Turkish faction was responsible for an attack, then it isn't incredible even if it is just as possible that they are simply lying.
Still the smart thing for NATO to do is find that the Turks provoked the conflict and weasel out of any mutual defense clauses. First, the Turks did provoke the conflict. Second, Putin clearly believes he has an effective counter to NATO air-power, which he has been itching to use for a while now, and it is highly possible that he does, given the counter-intelligence failures of the U.S. defense industry and closer cooperation we've been seeing between Russia and Beijing.
Is anyone in NATO that smart? Maybe, maybe not, but we can certainly hope they're that cowardly.
Still there is a cost to appearing weak in the Middle East at a time when the global economy is deciding whether the dollar is really invincible. But we may no longer have the option of appearing militarily strong thanks to previous failures.
Putin is not the problem; Assad is not the problem. Islamic jihadist radicals, Saudi, Quattr, Pres. Erdegen in Turkey, the idiots in Washington and their allies are the problem. Libya was turned from a secular safe haven for women, children, education, religious tolerance and a fairly stable economy, into a Islamic hellhole; all sponsored by Hillary and her friends mentioned above. That is what Obama, the Bush boys, the Clintons and their Middle Eastern allies want to do to Syria. Quaddafi was a bit of a bastard - but he was our bastard - until Hillary and company sold him out and had him murdered. Do the research for Gods sake.
Saudi and friends must break Assad in order to put an Oil Pipeline thru Syria to Europe. If they can do that - Russia takes a big hit economically and Putin has huge problems. It also allows the Saudi brand of Sunni Islam to be militarily imposed on Shia Syria. It would be a Sunni sanctioned genocide against the Shia Syrians, the few remaining Christian sects and the Alawites.
It doesn't matter who holds the keys to the energy spigot going to Europe; the U.S. doesn't have a dog in that fight - it's none of our business. Assad is not a threat to the U.S. The Assad family has protected the Christan and Alawite minorities in Syria for decades; and now the idiots in D.C. have caused them to be slaughtered by the hundreds and the thousands. Do you think God is happy that the Christans in Syria have lost what little protection they have had in the past.
Putin; Putin is a threat only if the U.S. keeps sticking their nose into affairs we have no stake in. Europe needs to put on their big-boy pants and fix their own problems. The U.S. needs to purge the likes of Obama,Ryan,Reid,all Bushs,all Clintons and dozens of other treason-spawn before it's to late. We have plenty to fix in our own house - doing THAT should be what we worrry about first.
Has your attention been diverted elsewhere? Obama is attempting to ignite WWIII, and has been for some time. The so called arab spring was, just like the Ukrainian activity, an attempt at destabilization of those regions. You know, as with Kermit Roosevelt in the 50's. Because some of the areas signalled the intention to trade for oil in currency other than dollars.
Putin recognizes the attempts, as with the Syrian uprising fomented by obama and central bankers for what it is - ensuring the hegemony of the $ for as long as possible.
Mike, you really need to broaden your 'Big Picture' radar on what is now occurring in the Middle East and elsewhere.
U.S. foreign policy since the end of World War 2 is largely to blame for the mess we now find ourselves in - both militarily and politically.
Do you honestly believe that the loss of individual freedoms, the growing of the gap between the rich and those lesser off, the WACOs and the Ruby Ridges and all those unnecessary wars have come about because of political indecisiveness and not some kind of planned long term agenda?
Putin offers peace while the West goads him with everything that they can muster.
Put simply, if we have another world war then WE are on the WRONG side.
My opinion is that Putin is trying to do the right thing. He is trying to destroy Daesh. Our government created them from whole cloth. Obama's claim of a strategy to "degrade and destroy" is a lie.
Obama will not fight for or against anyone. He is a light weight and will let Putin do as he wants. It is part of his structural change. We will never be trusted on the world stage again.
I opened this comment section expecting to see Blind Patriotism, stoked by the DC Cartell..and MSM Protecting it's seat at WH Press Briefings. Thank You ALL!! I DID NOT
I have stopped believing in the patriot movement. Spending the 90's with the militias to then see them Rally around Bush and foreign entanglements distanced myself from the movement. Now to read that were parroting the propaganda to get even more deeply into foreign entanglements just shows me that the vast majority of so called Patriots are just into exceptionalism like most politicians today.
The Founders tried to teach us that we had no business in foreign entanglements and tried to build a system to prevent just that with no standing armies.
Too many so called patriots are really just fascists wrapped in a yellow flag.
The world has turned upside down. Putin is in no way a "good" man, but he saved the world from Syria turning into what the USA has done to nearly every ME country. WE have completely destabilized the entire region almost singlehandedly. IMO this has been by design, and it is the plan of those who control every President, not just Obama. We should also thank Putin for his restraint after the USA orchestrated the coup that took place in neighboring Ukraine.
The world is FULL of evil, and when our leaders' evil is worse than a Russian dictator, that is pretty stinking bad.
I see the smear Putin campaign has bent your judgement, True Believer, but i get it, old brainwashing is hard to overcome, so you are excused from reciting your ignorance. Putin isnt the problem, you traitorous government solely is.
I don't think a commenter yet has said Putin is a "good guy". The TRUTH cant be covered up in regards to what has transpired in Syria. Benghazi happened because of weapons shipments from Libya to Syria to overthrow Assad. Your vulgarities cannot cover up the FACT that Putin (a bad man) stopped Syria from becoming another destabilized terrorist stronghold. WW3 should have probably already started over the USA's involvement in overthrowing the Ukraine Govt. once again Putin has not escalated it.
Don't forget, no government is immune from the lure of unlimited power. Government is made up of men and men will lie, cheat, steal and kill to get more of it.
“There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters” ― Daniel Webster
Putin is no different. Making him into some cartoonish superhero crusading against Islam is misguided at best.
Nope don't watch that POS O'Reilly or any of the other statists on either side of the false left/right paradigm.
No one has said Putin is a good guy verbatim, but the obvious love of his "take no shit" bravado (the hallmark of a dictator, btw) and willingness to murder innocent civilians and non-combatants as acceptable collateral damage is telling of his supporters' true mindset.
What should I expect though?....the "Freedom" movement is filled with authoritarians that claim they want liberty for all, but wish to dictate which religions are acceptable, how others live their lives, and what government programs are acceptable to involuntarily tax the populace for....as long as it suits their particular brand of tyranny.
I should state that I don't dispute that we armed ISIS (Benghazi was an arms deal with AQ, Al Nusra and ultimately, ISIS gone bad)....but to claim Putin has stopped Syria from becoming a terrorist stronghold is to deny that combat operations are still ongoing, with no sign of letting up. He hasn't won yet it would seem.
I agree also that the US meddled in Ukraine....however, the propaganda arm of the Russian government has done a fantastic job of pulling the wool over American's eyes via RT in particular. I know people with family over there and if you've got the time, "Winter on Fire" is a documentary about the struggle that gives a much more accurate picture of real Ukrainian views on the struggle.
So anyone who stands his ground and takes no 'shit' marks him out as a dictator?
So where does Obama stand on that one?
There is no mention of 'religion' that the law of the land recognizes only that God is the giver of inalienable rights. The same God who gave us the Ten Commandments. There is no mention of other Gods!
Without Putin's intervention in Syria - and the Russians were invited in - Syria would be in far worse shape than it is today. The war will not be over there until all the other 'players' withdraw their intentions to slice up Syria.
You are halfway to believing that your own government has betrayed you, what is stopping you from going the full hog?
So you don't think that crushing one's opponent, regardless of the cost of innocent lives, *ISN'T* one of a group of defining characteristics of a dictator, Nemesis?
Please, do elaborate.....
The Hebrew "God" of the Bible isn't *actually* mentioned in the DoI (and not at all in the Constitution or BoR); in point of fact....the "creator" and "Nature's God" is....if you want to get technical. I don't disagree that the basis of our law is derived from the 10Cs, however, I do not agree that any one religion (or any religion at all) should be preferred over another in this country according to our 1st Amendment principles....and yet we see that "preference" from the "conservative" side of the aisle repeatedly.
Syria would be in far worse shape, huh? For whom, exactly? Assad's regime? Agreed. The people of Syria? Possibly...it all depends on where one fell on the religious scale and what part of Syria one was in. We still don't know how it's all going to shake out, so your declaration is a little premature.
No, I FULLY believe my government has betrayed all of us....the difference is: I don't believe any other current government is the answer (certainly not Russia) and instead believe that following the framework of our original charter (and a sound energy policy) would have avoided the vast majority of the international conflicts we now face, in addition to having more individual freedoms here at home.
I would suggest, and going on your view of Putin, that you have not made yourself aware of what the real issues are in Syria. Do you realize that Russia is winning in Syria and because of that, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are on the brink of invading Syria to remove Assad? Do you realize if that occurs that the US, which is an ally of Saudi Arabia and Turkey - two Islamic countries - will be drawn into the conflict therefore escalating an almost finished war into WW3?
Whatever you think of Putin, and I would suggest you dispense with your bias and look at what Putin is offering which is a hell of lot better and laced with common sense than current American imperialism, he is the only one defending Christians and taking on the fourth Great Jihad, while the West fiddles at the edges deciding whether to support Turkey and the House of Saud's impending invasion of Syria.
I think we can agree that the 'Creator' means the God of the Bible, yes?
I believe you should be asking yourself why the West and its Islamic allies wanted to remove Assad in the first place. Why did the West get rid of Gaddafi and interfere with the Middle East, what has been the goal all along? And why has the West been continually spitting in Putin's face when all he is offering is a road to peace?
Winning is all relative until you actually win. That's all I'm saying. As for Shia vs. Sunni tensions...yes, I'm very much aware of the Islamic struggle for power and resources between the two major sects. I believe a large scale war between Sunni and Shia is inevitable at some point in the not too distant future and, as you said, will likely result in WWIII.
LOL, if you think Russia and Putin's main goal is the protection of "Christians" you're delusional. He's propping up a government he supports with the Russian/USSR version of "Imperialism" that was practiced globally until communism failed to prove itself economically viable.
No, we can't agree on that definition....know why? B/c Jefferson wrote it. Ever hear of the Jeffersonian Bible? If not, look up his religious views. He would likely be considered a heretic by most standards. I personally believe he believed in a god, but his version wasn't exactly what he'd been told or read about solely from the sects of the day or their holy books. Each of us are in a different place in our spiritual walk and the holy ghost reveals himself to us differently. I can't say with any certainty that Jefferson wasn't intentionally vague about the Creator for the very reason that certainty on the issue is not guaranteed or provable.
Putin's offering peace by war? Interesting; the old "Peace is war, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength" mantra. How appropriate for your view.
To the victor go the spoils, as the old saying goes. WW3 is not inevitable, unless the Arabs and the Turks invade Syria and the U.S. backs them to the hilt.
Putin's main goal is to keep Syria intact which in turn will keep Russian oil flowing to its customers and the Russian economy stable to some extent. Already France and Germany are making noises about reducing 'sanctions' against Russia as those sanctions impact their own agricultural sector. That the minority Christians in Syria are being given a reprieve through Russian air attacks against the 'rebels' and ISIS is beyond question thus placing Putin as the only leader in the world who is protecting Christians.
Putin is KGB trained but not KGB indoctrinated. He has stated what Russia expects from the world. He is well aware of the Western globalist agenda for world wide hegemony and wants no part of it. He is also well aware of how Western central Banks are the controlling interests in nearly everything that the West does (that is why he is introducing a separate banking system) including the economic enslavement of their own citizenry and eventual replacement with a culture that is very compatible with National Socialism - Islam.
Well the term 'Creator' has a spiritual significance in most folks minds, and whatever Jefferson believed at the time, he would have known that term would impart that meaning?
Putin is not offering war. Putin is in Syria because he was invited in to assist to overcome the foreign policy of the United States of America that pays and weaponizes its proxy armies in the overthrow of Assad. You must ask yourself why is your government in with Turkey and Saudi Arabia - two Islamic countries that have been trying to rid the middle east of the Assad's for decades?
But Putin's main priority is not Christians, Shia Muslims, Alawites or any of the other groups in Syria that are benefiting from Russian attacks on ISIS or anti-Assad forces. That is simply an aside and if the reports are correct, Russia is causing a lot of collateral damage and deaths of innocents being indiscriminately targeted.
Putin doesn't want Western hegemony....he wants Russian/communist hegemony. Don't be so naive. It's a struggle for power; the fact that you turn a blind eye to it doesn't make it less real. Again, this goes back to what I originally posted....far too many "patriots" are making a hero out of Putin's "noble" reasons for being in Syria. They aren't noble...it's about power and self-interest.
No, "Creator" acknowledges a higher power....the granter of rights. It removes the ability to make the argument that governments grant rights. If the "Creator" grants them, only the Creator can take them away. It was pivotal to the concept of what we now call "Jeffersonian Democracy" (and yes, I cringe at the D word).
The US is aligning with Sunnis b/c since the late 1800s/early 1900s we've been in bed with them for oil. Each unit of GDP is backed by a unit of energy. We run on oil currently. Not only are we interested in gaining power, but we're interested in propping up the petrol dollar....something Iran and Syria have been trying to move away from.
Large scale Sunni vs. Shia war is inevitable....we saw the beginnings of it with Arab Spring and Arab Winter....Syria, Iraq and ISIS are just the continuation and expansion of those hostilities.
As for Creator....you said it yourself...it holds a spiritual significance for believers, but it doesn't mean one particular brand.
Putin's not offering war? Really? Tell that to the people his military is bombing. :)
Anonymous - and I assuming that all three comments after mine are from the same author.
Your contentions are really just splitting hairs. I know only too well that Putin was not invited into Syria to protect Christians as I pointed that out in my previous comment - however my point is still this - Putin is the only leader around the world that is actively protecting Christians, albeit through default.
What Putin wants is to be left alone, is for other countries around the world to be also left alone, and an end to American imperialism that is controlled by an elite through the United Nations with globalist ambitions.
In that regard Putin is simply defending Russia and shoring up what he has. He makes no bones about how stupid the 'West' has become, using the term 'committing suicide' because looking from outside the box gives him a grandstand view of what we are allowing to be done to ourselves, our cultures and our countries.
He wants no part of that!
If he was a communist with aims of a Russian hegemony where are his military bases around the world with which he could 'influence' those states he wishes to control? Have you done some homework on how many military bases around the world the U.S. has as compared to Russia? If he was a communist we would not be witnessing the many wealth creation reforms and individual freedoms that have and are still taking place within Russia. Many countries are now lining up to do business with Russia - please do some research on this aspect and as to how Russia is now outstripping the U.S. in many areas, including the military.
I agree - Creator can mean many things to many people - I have pointed that out in my previous comment as a spiritual connection. Yes, and the wording has been used to bolster 'inalienable rights' as compared to humanist 'human rights' that now usurps what was once God given natural rights.
You need to remember that Russia was invited to Syria. Assad was losing to the NATO/US/Saudi proxy campaign as waged by the 'rebels' and all the other manufactured Islamic sects. The Russians have turned the tide of war to the extent that a ceasefire is now possible. Putin has no plans of remaining in Syria once this conflict has come to an end - he has stated this on numerous occasions.
I have no idea of where you source your information from, but you need to expand your research to include the 'other' side's propaganda as well, which will then give you more of a balanced view.
Putin doesn't merely want to be left alone....again, it's as if you can't see the nose on your face. He's protecting Russia's proxies. It's that simple.
Yes, he wants an end to American Imperialism....as do I, frankly. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't like to see it replaced with Russian domination.
He simply can't economically afford world wide military bases nor can the USSR's influence be easily or quickly rebuilt in the vacuum caused by the breakup nearly 26+ years ago, or have you not seen their economy?
Oh, so now Russia is a bastion of freedom? According to whom? Yes, strides have been made when the iron curtain came down but the people there are far from free. The business being generated in Russia is largely from the criminal class as the well connected are setting up an oligarchy similar to our own.
If you agree that Creator didn't necessarily mean the God of the Bible...why are we still talking about it?
I never said Russian wasn't invited. Of course Russia's puppet Assad was going to ask for help...and get it. Why would Russia need to occupy Syria after hostilities end? Assad will be indebted to them (as he was before Arab Spring came to Dara’a) and Russian influence will factor heavily in all of Assad's future decisions.
I fully realize that both sides are spreading propaganda....the difference is: YOU BELIEVE the Russian side without question apparently.
You put words in my mouth and wish to split hairs so I believe that you are looking to score points and that this 'conversation' has gone on long enough.
Thank you for your input, and thank you Mike for allowing this exchange to occur.
I did no such thing, Nemesis. What I stated at the very beginning (which you took issue with) you proved out after all your talk....you're a big Putin fan...primarily because you think he's taking on Muslims and protecting Christians, when the truth is that he's simply protecting his interests (which you admitted when you said,"albeit through default.")
This exchange didn't need to go on as long as it did....*YOU* chose to "split hairs" and declare a specific god mantra in our founding documents that you've now agreed may "mean many things to many people".
The arguments are all circular and we're just repeating them now.
Best wishes to you. I actually hope that you're right...and that Putin's foreign policy is as sound as his debt policy....but that remains to be seen. I remain skeptical of all man-made government as all are corruptible and apt to seek power over their fellow man.
32 comments:
If we keep surrendering, there might not be a WW3. I think that's what Obama has in mind.
It's the Fourth Turning, right on schedule...
Please explain to me what it is that Putin is getting away with. Stop drinking the establishment cool-aid and read some foreign news sources. Please read many and make up your own mind.
The connection between ISIS and Turkey is hardly lacking in evidence, if the Russians are claiming that their involvement in the region has given them access to new intelligence which suggests a Turkish faction was responsible for an attack, then it isn't incredible even if it is just as possible that they are simply lying.
Still the smart thing for NATO to do is find that the Turks provoked the conflict and weasel out of any mutual defense clauses. First, the Turks did provoke the conflict. Second, Putin clearly believes he has an effective counter to NATO air-power, which he has been itching to use for a while now, and it is highly possible that he does, given the counter-intelligence failures of the U.S. defense industry and closer cooperation we've been seeing between Russia and Beijing.
Is anyone in NATO that smart? Maybe, maybe not, but we can certainly hope they're that cowardly.
Still there is a cost to appearing weak in the Middle East at a time when the global economy is deciding whether the dollar is really invincible. But we may no longer have the option of appearing militarily strong thanks to previous failures.
Putin is not the problem; Assad is not the problem. Islamic jihadist radicals, Saudi, Quattr, Pres. Erdegen in Turkey, the idiots in Washington and their allies are the problem. Libya was turned from a secular safe haven for women, children, education, religious tolerance and a fairly stable economy, into a Islamic hellhole; all sponsored by Hillary and her friends mentioned above. That is what Obama, the Bush boys, the Clintons and their Middle Eastern allies want to do to Syria. Quaddafi was a bit of a bastard - but he was our bastard - until Hillary and company sold him out and had him murdered. Do the research for Gods sake.
Saudi and friends must break Assad in order to put an Oil Pipeline thru Syria to Europe. If they can do that - Russia takes a big hit economically and Putin has huge problems. It also allows the Saudi brand of Sunni Islam to be militarily imposed on Shia Syria. It would be a Sunni sanctioned genocide against the Shia Syrians, the few remaining Christian sects and the Alawites.
It doesn't matter who holds the keys to the energy spigot going to Europe; the U.S. doesn't have a dog in that fight - it's none of our business. Assad is not a threat to the U.S. The Assad family has protected the Christan and Alawite minorities in Syria for decades; and now the idiots in D.C. have caused them to be slaughtered by the hundreds and the thousands. Do you think God is happy that the Christans in Syria have lost what little protection they have had in the past.
Putin; Putin is a threat only if the U.S. keeps sticking their nose into affairs we have no stake in. Europe needs to put on their big-boy pants and fix their own problems. The U.S. needs to purge the likes of Obama,Ryan,Reid,all Bushs,all Clintons and dozens of other treason-spawn before it's to late. We have plenty to fix in our own house - doing THAT should be what we worrry about first.
WHAT?
Has your attention been diverted elsewhere? Obama is attempting to ignite WWIII, and has been for some time. The so called arab spring was, just like the Ukrainian activity, an attempt at destabilization of those regions. You know, as with Kermit Roosevelt in the 50's. Because some of the areas signalled the intention to trade for oil in currency other than dollars.
Putin recognizes the attempts, as with the Syrian uprising fomented by obama and central bankers for what it is - ensuring the hegemony of the $ for as long as possible.
Mike, you really need to broaden your 'Big Picture' radar on what is now occurring in the Middle East and elsewhere.
U.S. foreign policy since the end of World War 2 is largely to blame for the mess we now find ourselves in - both militarily and politically.
Do you honestly believe that the loss of individual freedoms, the growing of the gap between the rich and those lesser off, the WACOs and the Ruby Ridges and all those unnecessary wars have come about because of political indecisiveness and not some kind of planned long term agenda?
Putin offers peace while the West goads him with everything that they can muster.
Put simply, if we have another world war then WE are on the WRONG side.
My opinion is that Putin is trying to do the right thing. He is trying to destroy Daesh. Our government created them from whole cloth. Obama's claim of a strategy to "degrade and destroy" is a lie.
Obama will not fight for or against anyone. He is a light weight and will let Putin do as he wants. It is part of his structural change. We will never be trusted on the world stage again.
Nice to see you around, LL....
Sean in AZ ;) Apache Taxi. ;)
I opened this comment section expecting to see Blind Patriotism, stoked by the DC Cartell..and MSM Protecting it's seat at WH Press Briefings.
Thank You ALL!! I DID NOT
The war mongers are the string pullers in this country, wake up as smell whats been under your noses from WW II on! B-4
I have stopped believing in the patriot movement. Spending the 90's with the militias to then see them Rally around Bush and foreign entanglements distanced myself from the movement. Now to read that were parroting the propaganda to get even more deeply into foreign entanglements just shows me that the vast majority of so called Patriots are just into exceptionalism like most politicians today.
The Founders tried to teach us that we had no business in foreign entanglements and tried to build a system to prevent just that with no standing armies.
Too many so called patriots are really just fascists wrapped in a yellow flag.
I took an Oath to the Constitution not Empire.
The world has turned upside down. Putin is in no way a "good" man, but he saved the world from Syria turning into what the USA has done to nearly every ME country. WE have completely destabilized the entire region almost singlehandedly. IMO this has been by design, and it is the plan of those who control every President, not just Obama.
We should also thank Putin for his restraint after the USA orchestrated the coup that took place in neighboring Ukraine.
The world is FULL of evil, and when our leaders' evil is worse than a Russian dictator, that is pretty stinking bad.
I see the smear Putin campaign has bent your judgement, True Believer, but i get it, old brainwashing is hard to overcome, so you are excused from reciting your ignorance. Putin isnt the problem, you traitorous government solely is.
Sign Me, Neal Jensen
Anonymous at 10:25:
I don't think a commenter yet has said Putin is a "good guy". The TRUTH cant be covered up in regards to what has transpired in Syria. Benghazi happened because of weapons shipments from Libya to Syria to overthrow Assad. Your vulgarities cannot cover up the FACT that Putin (a bad man) stopped Syria from becoming another destabilized terrorist stronghold. WW3 should have probably already started over the USA's involvement in overthrowing the Ukraine Govt. once again Putin has not escalated it.
Maybe you should turn off Bill Oreilly????
Don't forget, no government is immune from the lure of unlimited power. Government is made up of men and men will lie, cheat, steal and kill to get more of it.
“There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters”
― Daniel Webster
Putin is no different. Making him into some cartoonish superhero crusading against Islam is misguided at best.
Putin is the problem for Russia and the surrounding countries to resolve.
We've got more immediate concerns closer to home.
"War is the health of the state."
Randolph Bourne
This is 10:25....
Nope don't watch that POS O'Reilly or any of the other statists on either side of the false left/right paradigm.
No one has said Putin is a good guy verbatim, but the obvious love of his "take no shit" bravado (the hallmark of a dictator, btw) and willingness to murder innocent civilians and non-combatants as acceptable collateral damage is telling of his supporters' true mindset.
What should I expect though?....the "Freedom" movement is filled with authoritarians that claim they want liberty for all, but wish to dictate which religions are acceptable, how others live their lives, and what government programs are acceptable to involuntarily tax the populace for....as long as it suits their particular brand of tyranny.
I should state that I don't dispute that we armed ISIS (Benghazi was an arms deal with AQ, Al Nusra and ultimately, ISIS gone bad)....but to claim Putin has stopped Syria from becoming a terrorist stronghold is to deny that combat operations are still ongoing, with no sign of letting up. He hasn't won yet it would seem.
I agree also that the US meddled in Ukraine....however, the propaganda arm of the Russian government has done a fantastic job of pulling the wool over American's eyes via RT in particular. I know people with family over there and if you've got the time, "Winter on Fire" is a documentary about the struggle that gives a much more accurate picture of real Ukrainian views on the struggle.
Anonymous - this is 10.25.
So anyone who stands his ground and takes no 'shit' marks him out as a dictator?
So where does Obama stand on that one?
There is no mention of 'religion' that the law of the land recognizes only that God is the giver of inalienable rights. The same God who gave us the Ten Commandments. There is no mention of other Gods!
Without Putin's intervention in Syria - and the Russians were invited in - Syria would be in far worse shape than it is today. The war will not be over there until all the other 'players' withdraw their intentions to slice up Syria.
You are halfway to believing that your own government has betrayed you, what is stopping you from going the full hog?
So you don't think that crushing one's opponent, regardless of the cost of innocent lives, *ISN'T* one of a group of defining characteristics of a dictator, Nemesis?
Please, do elaborate.....
The Hebrew "God" of the Bible isn't *actually* mentioned in the DoI (and not at all in the Constitution or BoR); in point of fact....the "creator" and "Nature's God" is....if you want to get technical. I don't disagree that the basis of our law is derived from the 10Cs, however, I do not agree that any one religion (or any religion at all) should be preferred over another in this country according to our 1st Amendment principles....and yet we see that "preference" from the "conservative" side of the aisle repeatedly.
Syria would be in far worse shape, huh? For whom, exactly? Assad's regime? Agreed. The people of Syria? Possibly...it all depends on where one fell on the religious scale and what part of Syria one was in. We still don't know how it's all going to shake out, so your declaration is a little premature.
No, I FULLY believe my government has betrayed all of us....the difference is: I don't believe any other current government is the answer (certainly not Russia) and instead believe that following the framework of our original charter (and a sound energy policy) would have avoided the vast majority of the international conflicts we now face, in addition to having more individual freedoms here at home.
Anonymous at 6:17PM.
I would suggest, and going on your view of Putin, that you have not made yourself aware of what the real issues are in Syria. Do you realize that Russia is winning in Syria and because of that, Turkey and Saudi Arabia are on the brink of invading Syria to remove Assad? Do you realize if that occurs that the US, which is an ally of Saudi Arabia and Turkey - two Islamic countries - will be drawn into the conflict therefore escalating an almost finished war into WW3?
Whatever you think of Putin, and I would suggest you dispense with your bias and look at what Putin is offering which is a hell of lot better and laced with common sense than current American imperialism, he is the only one defending Christians and taking on the fourth Great Jihad, while the West fiddles at the edges deciding whether to support Turkey and the House of Saud's impending invasion of Syria.
I think we can agree that the 'Creator' means the God of the Bible, yes?
I believe you should be asking yourself why the West and its Islamic allies wanted to remove Assad in the first place. Why did the West get rid of Gaddafi and interfere with the Middle East, what has been the goal all along? And why has the West been continually spitting in Putin's face when all he is offering is a road to peace?
Nemesis...
Winning is all relative until you actually win. That's all I'm saying. As for Shia vs. Sunni tensions...yes, I'm very much aware of the Islamic struggle for power and resources between the two major sects. I believe a large scale war between Sunni and Shia is inevitable at some point in the not too distant future and, as you said, will likely result in WWIII.
LOL, if you think Russia and Putin's main goal is the protection of "Christians" you're delusional. He's propping up a government he supports with the Russian/USSR version of "Imperialism" that was practiced globally until communism failed to prove itself economically viable.
No, we can't agree on that definition....know why? B/c Jefferson wrote it. Ever hear of the Jeffersonian Bible? If not, look up his religious views. He would likely be considered a heretic by most standards. I personally believe he believed in a god, but his version wasn't exactly what he'd been told or read about solely from the sects of the day or their holy books. Each of us are in a different place in our spiritual walk and the holy ghost reveals himself to us differently. I can't say with any certainty that Jefferson wasn't intentionally vague about the Creator for the very reason that certainty on the issue is not guaranteed or provable.
Putin's offering peace by war? Interesting; the old "Peace is war, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength" mantra. How appropriate for your view.
Anonymous at 10:30AM
To the victor go the spoils, as the old saying goes. WW3 is not inevitable, unless the Arabs and the Turks invade Syria and the U.S. backs them to the hilt.
Putin's main goal is to keep Syria intact which in turn will keep Russian oil flowing to its customers and the Russian economy stable to some extent. Already France and Germany are making noises about reducing 'sanctions' against Russia as those sanctions impact their own agricultural sector. That the minority Christians in Syria are being given a reprieve through Russian air attacks against the 'rebels' and ISIS is beyond question thus placing Putin as the only leader in the world who is protecting Christians.
Putin is KGB trained but not KGB indoctrinated. He has stated what Russia expects from the world. He is well aware of the Western globalist agenda for world wide hegemony and wants no part of it. He is also well aware of how Western central Banks are the controlling interests in nearly everything that the West does (that is why he is introducing a separate banking system) including the economic enslavement of their own citizenry and eventual replacement with a culture that is very compatible with National Socialism - Islam.
Well the term 'Creator' has a spiritual significance in most folks minds, and whatever Jefferson believed at the time, he would have known that term would impart that meaning?
Putin is not offering war. Putin is in Syria because he was invited in to assist to overcome the foreign policy of the United States of America that pays and weaponizes its proxy armies in the overthrow of Assad. You must ask yourself why is your government in with Turkey and Saudi Arabia - two Islamic countries that have been trying to rid the middle east of the Assad's for decades?
Nemesis:
But Putin's main priority is not Christians, Shia Muslims, Alawites or any of the other groups in Syria that are benefiting from Russian attacks on ISIS or anti-Assad forces. That is simply an aside and if the reports are correct, Russia is causing a lot of collateral damage and deaths of innocents being indiscriminately targeted.
Putin doesn't want Western hegemony....he wants Russian/communist hegemony. Don't be so naive. It's a struggle for power; the fact that you turn a blind eye to it doesn't make it less real. Again, this goes back to what I originally posted....far too many "patriots" are making a hero out of Putin's "noble" reasons for being in Syria. They aren't noble...it's about power and self-interest.
No, "Creator" acknowledges a higher power....the granter of rights. It removes the ability to make the argument that governments grant rights. If the "Creator" grants them, only the Creator can take them away. It was pivotal to the concept of what we now call "Jeffersonian Democracy" (and yes, I cringe at the D word).
The US is aligning with Sunnis b/c since the late 1800s/early 1900s we've been in bed with them for oil. Each unit of GDP is backed by a unit of energy. We run on oil currently. Not only are we interested in gaining power, but we're interested in propping up the petrol dollar....something Iran and Syria have been trying to move away from.
Large scale Sunni vs. Shia war is inevitable....we saw the beginnings of it with Arab Spring and Arab Winter....Syria, Iraq and ISIS are just the continuation and expansion of those hostilities.
As for Creator....you said it yourself...it holds a spiritual significance for believers, but it doesn't mean one particular brand.
Putin's not offering war? Really? Tell that to the people his military is bombing. :)
I should have said, "It *may not have* meant one particular brand".
Apologies for poor wording.
Anonymous - and I assuming that all three comments after mine are from the same author.
Your contentions are really just splitting hairs. I know only too well that Putin was not invited into Syria to protect Christians as I pointed that out in my previous comment - however my point is still this - Putin is the only leader around the world that is actively protecting Christians, albeit through default.
What Putin wants is to be left alone, is for other countries around the world to be also left alone, and an end to American imperialism that is controlled by an elite through the United Nations with globalist ambitions.
In that regard Putin is simply defending Russia and shoring up what he has. He makes no bones about how stupid the 'West' has become, using the term 'committing suicide' because looking from outside the box gives him a grandstand view of what we are allowing to be done to ourselves, our cultures and our countries.
He wants no part of that!
If he was a communist with aims of a Russian hegemony where are his military bases around the world with which he could 'influence' those states he wishes to control? Have you done some homework on how many military bases around the world the U.S. has as compared to Russia? If he was a communist we would not be witnessing the many wealth creation reforms and individual freedoms that have and are still taking place within Russia. Many countries are now lining up to do business with Russia - please do some research on this aspect and as to how Russia is now outstripping the U.S. in many areas, including the military.
I agree - Creator can mean many things to many people - I have pointed that out in my previous comment as a spiritual connection. Yes, and the wording has been used to bolster 'inalienable rights' as compared to humanist 'human rights' that now usurps what was once God given natural rights.
You need to remember that Russia was invited to Syria. Assad was losing to the NATO/US/Saudi proxy campaign as waged by the 'rebels' and all the other manufactured Islamic sects. The Russians have turned the tide of war to the extent that a ceasefire is now possible. Putin has no plans of remaining in Syria once this conflict has come to an end - he has stated this on numerous occasions.
I have no idea of where you source your information from, but you need to expand your research to include the 'other' side's propaganda as well, which will then give you more of a balanced view.
Putin doesn't merely want to be left alone....again, it's as if you can't see the nose on your face. He's protecting Russia's proxies. It's that simple.
Yes, he wants an end to American Imperialism....as do I, frankly. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't like to see it replaced with Russian domination.
He simply can't economically afford world wide military bases nor can the USSR's influence be easily or quickly rebuilt in the vacuum caused by the breakup nearly 26+ years ago, or have you not seen their economy?
Oh, so now Russia is a bastion of freedom? According to whom? Yes, strides have been made when the iron curtain came down but the people there are far from free. The business being generated in Russia is largely from the criminal class as the well connected are setting up an oligarchy similar to our own.
If you agree that Creator didn't necessarily mean the God of the Bible...why are we still talking about it?
I never said Russian wasn't invited. Of course Russia's puppet Assad was going to ask for help...and get it. Why would Russia need to occupy Syria after hostilities end? Assad will be indebted to them (as he was before Arab Spring came to Dara’a) and Russian influence will factor heavily in all of Assad's future decisions.
I fully realize that both sides are spreading propaganda....the difference is: YOU BELIEVE the Russian side without question apparently.
Dear Anonymous,
You put words in my mouth and wish to split hairs so I believe that you are looking to score points and that this 'conversation' has gone on long enough.
Thank you for your input, and thank you Mike for allowing this exchange to occur.
I did no such thing, Nemesis. What I stated at the very beginning (which you took issue with) you proved out after all your talk....you're a big Putin fan...primarily because you think he's taking on Muslims and protecting Christians, when the truth is that he's simply protecting his interests (which you admitted when you said,"albeit through default.")
This exchange didn't need to go on as long as it did....*YOU* chose to "split hairs" and declare a specific god mantra in our founding documents that you've now agreed may "mean many things to many people".
The arguments are all circular and we're just repeating them now.
Best wishes to you. I actually hope that you're right...and that Putin's foreign policy is as sound as his debt policy....but that remains to be seen. I remain skeptical of all man-made government as all are corruptible and apt to seek power over their fellow man.
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