Gentlemen and ladies,
The Rules of Non-Engagement for the 19 April event include rifles needing to be slung to the rear and unloaded, among other things. The gist of these rules is an understanding between event organizers and the National Park Police in the permit itself.
An additional wrinkle considered desirable is the use of chamber flags or similar devices to actually show that rifles are unloaded. This is, I think, a very good idea. Now it is true, as some have pointed out, that what these Rules of Non-engagement ("RONE'S") call for in terms of unloaded rifles already goes beyond what the local law says in restricting the carry of loaded rifles, and there is nothing in the permit's writing about it.
Loaded mags will be allowed to be carried in bandoleers or magazine pouches at the participant's front or side. The additional issue of chamber flags is an extra burden that we are willingly taking upon ourselves to demonstrate at a glance our compliance to local law enforcement.
Our pistols, carried in open holsters, will of course be loaded. The addition of the chamber flags is hardly a great impediment to placing the rifle in ready condition.
There are many, both within and without the administration, who would like to see this event descend into a bloody confrontation between us and the police, or between the counter-demonstrators and the police and us.
Any incident will be spun to our detriment, "proving" the "dangers" of open carry. Thus I think it is a reasonable precaution to provide a chamber flag for your long gun.
The event organizers will have a few extras at the site, but I am certain that they will quickly run out. Therefore, let every man and woman who wishes to participate with a long gun bring their own chamber flags, and any extras they may have laying around.
In Liberty,
Mike Vanderboegh
III
22 comments:
I'm an Instructor-in-Training with Appleseed, and a Rifleman, and we use Chamber Flags on the line at every shoot. It's the quickest way to make sure a rifle is not in a conditition to be fired. I think it's a great idea.
For those that don't have or can't acquire a chamber flag on short notice, a field expedient of two LIGHT-COLORED cable ties formed into the "L" shape and trimmed to suitable length should get the job done nicely.
Good idea, this gives us the moral high ground.
If you add a label to the field expedient mentioned earlier...
I will not be able to attend. I do however have an opinion.
I think Chamber flags/blocks is a very BAD idea.
What you are saying is, "See how harmless we are? See how compliant we are? We're not scary at all are we? See, we mean no harm, we'll take our pitchforks and blunt the ends so they cannot be used as weapons!"
Does anyone remember the Marines (circa 1983) when they occupied their sector of Beirut? They were made stand their posts showing the world that their weapons were unloaded. Unloaded weapons in a combat zone!
Why? So as NOT to present an OFFENSIVE appearance/posture. They didn't want to look hostile to those who would kill them!
What is this rally for? Is it for the purpose of showing our enemies how nice, compliant and harmless we all are?
If you don't trust adults to behave responsibly, then admit that the whole thing was a bad idea and cancel the event!
Or, just let the other side wonder if your weapons are loaded. They won't know unless you tell them.
Mike,
Speaking of open carry, look at what is taking place today in Arizona.
http://www.azccwblog.com/final-vote-on-constitutional-carry/
We are going to join the ranks of Vermont and Alaska.
Question ..... what kind of contraption is that wrapped around the magazine well in the picture? Looks strange.
If you don't have a chamber flag you can use a cable look,often included and sold with a new firearm purchance. Dam'n I never thought one of these would come in handy.I wish I could joine you but I am unable but please be-carefull and mind your tempers we all know that the Idiots will be there protesting our demonstration.
God Bless III
I suppose I am that element who is a hysterical hater and vicious killer wannabe, but an unloaded firearm is stupidity. That is one objection, another is that it seems counterproductive to me if we are trying to get them to listen to us. We know they will not listen to us out of respect or concern for the law of the land or any shadow of a sense of morality. They will listen out of fear.
So now, we offer proof that they have no reason to fear because we will go unarmed if they want us to do so. An unloaded firearm is identical to being unarmed.
While I appreciate all the work and trouble so many are going to, to make a statement. I don't think anyone has really paid attention to the message they will read, no matter what message we think we will have sent.
That message is simply this, "We have no reason to consider what these people want or to consider what is the right thing to do. We can let them talk and carry signs and do whatever other ineffectual things they might because we still control them. We tell them they can have their guns, but they can't load them. If they will let us boss them around like that, then we still haven't committed the "intolerable act" and we can move against them some more, after they all go home thinking they did something."
I wish I didn't see it that way. I enjoyed my naivete before I actually got their message. I seem to be alone in my own camp.
How many are bringing cameras to take pics of the snoopers with cams ?
Dakota, that's a Boonie Packer Redi-Mag. It holds a loaded magazine on the left side of an AR15/M16 lower receiver. It makes for a very quick magazine change. I like them, but it does add some weight to the rifle.
sorry guys. I am with straightarrow and longbow on this one.
Not interested in placating these goons and tyrants. Not interested in asking permission to protest my dis-satisfaction and disgust. Not willing to make myself a target to make a point...a point that seems to me not sharp enough.
Best of luck. I will be here in my AO and waiting to see how things go. If the SHTF I am right where I need to be and ready to deal.
If things remain calm and somehow the tyrants take heed and see the light beginning with mending their ways I will eat my hat.
KPN
3%
Straightarrow:
Read this piece:
Why I Will Be Using One of Those Silly Flags on 4/19
Mike;
KENT State completely destroyed the moral valididty of the right for years to come.. it became a call to arms for every radical pos in the country and haunts the military to this day..
The least thng Americans need during this is for a dumb accident or an instigated event to take place.
We must hold the moral high ground or we will not recover from it ever.
Excellent post.
Yank
As it has already been said, We must hold the moral high ground.......NO FORT SUMPTER" this time. I can extract that chamber flag quicker than I can clear a double feed in a M16 pattern weapon. Please use the chamber flag, great show of force if you think about it for a moment.
Chris
III
I'm going to agree with a couple others here. Chamber flags will show TBTP that we are less ready than we need to be to defend ourselves on that day, and in the future.
Some of those at Kent State were carrying flowers on the day they were murdered. This did not stop them from being killed or wounded.
I am sure that the Federal Police and LEO's that will be surrounding those that gather on April 19th will not have chamber flags in their rifles.
If it is being anticipated by the organizers of this rally that those that will be gathering on that day cannot be trusted to conduct themselves in a responsible manner, it doesn't bode well for Patriots and 3%ers in any future civil war. Maybe we should just carry flowers that day. They won't make us any less dead should TPTB start shooting.
Mike, if I am to believe that it is your or Dan's intention to "placate" the powers that be with this action, which we have been shown many times in recent history does not work in the face of tyranny, I just lost a little faith in this effort to let TPTB know that we indeed intend to protect what is left of our Constitution and Republic, should we be forced to do so.
We have backed up grumbly many times before, to use your own words, Mike.
Prove to me this is not so; not this time. More importantly, show the world.
patrickhenry3
III
You have no moral high ground if you let "them" tell you you may not carry loaded weapons.
Unless by moral high ground you mean becoming a human sacrifice on the alter of passive resistance to tyranny. Like Kent State, that might sway many fence sitters to our side or at least away from support for the tyrant.
I pray no one dies... no one from our side.
Do I remember wrong or isn't the applicable law in that park that long arms be slung on the back at all times, muzzle down, and unloaded?
Visible indication that participants are in compliance with the law will reduce the tension level for all concerned; law enforcement, organizers, observers.
If you don't agree with carrying an unloaded long-arm, then you should not bring one or should not attend. Breaking the law is not part of the agenda for the day.
There's plenty of "message" to go around, IMHO.
Sadly, I will not be able to attend due to economics. Were I able to, I would not put a chamberflag in my rifle. From your own site, Mike...
"Not One More Inch!"
Chamberflags? Why even go?
Mike
III
The irony of an unloaded redi-mag...
B
III
What if you are left handed, and your rifle is slung on your back, muzzle down? You won't be able to see the chamber flag?
I can see both sides of the argument. The reality is, though, that it takes about a 1oth of a second to remove the flag/plug, and depending on how fast you are, just a few short moments to load and chamber a round. Carry a rhodesian rig or something that holds multiple mags, a lot of mags. You will have more firepower than what a typical uniformed cop has.
What I WOULD do if I could attend, was to look for LE sniper posts. You know they are gonna be there.
I'm just sayin.
Jeremiah said...
You have no moral high ground if you let "them" tell you you may not carry loaded weapons.
Unless by moral high ground you mean becoming a human sacrifice on the alter of passive resistance to tyranny. Like Kent State, that might sway many fence sitters to our side or at least away from support for the tyrant.
I pray no one dies... no one from our side.
April 8, 2010 8:09 PM
Brother, this is a demonstration of our resolve not a meeting "on the field". I will not quarrel with you because WE are of like mind I am sure however when you get down to the nuts and bolts of the reason for this event IS MORALITY and a chamber flag in a SLUNG weapon can be very quickly cleared and the weapon in action VERY quickly.
We are trying to STOP future violent war by demonstrating on this day, correct Sir.
Chris
III
ETA: Remember, were on the same side....
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