If you read the article, it makes two salient points, first, the mask is more a reference to the movie than guy fawkes and second, he was fighting to protect British citizens from religious persecution. His methods were wrong but you can't just call him a catholic supremacist and be done with it... lots more going on there. If you have anti-catholic views, then I wish you would keep them to yourselves, cause I thought this blog was about freedom, not persecution.
Fawkes probably WAS a Catholic supremacist, because that's the way religion interfaced with government in those days. But the Gunpowder Plot wasn't terribly well thought out...the idea that Princess Elizabeth could be kidnapped and placed on the throne was particularly far-fetched. And the aftermath for Catholics was brutal; among other casualties was the death through torture of St. Nicholas Owen, builder of priest-holes and unofficial patron saint of survivalist retreats. Fawkes himself managed to jump from the gallows and break his neck, which saved him from living to see his genitals removed and burnt and his viscera removed.
Well, the headline IS deliberately misleading and provocative, but for CNN that is not unusual; it is good to see that someone wants to point out that the Gunpowder Plot was not about anarchists or OWSer scumbags, but they did bury the key sentence -
"What they were looking for was either Catholic supremacy **or** at least a government set up where Catholics have full toleration,” Sharpe said. -
way down in the article. History does not note Fawkes, or the others, as being Catholic 'supremacists', who would have insisted that people convert to Catholicism; but it would have been more accurate to call them 'anti-Anglican Supremacists' since the Anglican Church was indeed the one insisting that Catholics convert or be burned, tortured, imprisoned, have their lands taken, etc.
yeah the OWS and Anon movement are using it because of the film and comic book not the original gunpowder plot. The comic uses the image because V was a product of his government and yet rebeled against it and its tyranny. His efforts were met with further nationalism on the part of the government very much like Fawkes own day. Individuals in the comic are singled out for persecution on the vaguest of charges very much like Fawkes time. In shor its more about the comic than the original man.
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If you read the article, it makes two salient points, first, the mask is more a reference to the movie than guy fawkes and second, he was fighting to protect British citizens from religious persecution. His methods were wrong but you can't just call him a catholic supremacist and be done with it... lots more going on there. If you have anti-catholic views, then I wish you would keep them to yourselves, cause I thought this blog was about freedom, not persecution.
Obviously you missed the quotation marks on the title, which was from the source, not from me.
Your gripe is with the CNN headline writer, who, I have no trouble believing, might just be anti-catholic.
My point is that folks should be careful about what symbol they adopt and at least be able to explain it when challenged.
Fawkes probably WAS a Catholic supremacist, because that's the way religion interfaced with government in those days. But the Gunpowder Plot wasn't terribly well thought out...the idea that Princess Elizabeth could be kidnapped and placed on the throne was particularly far-fetched. And the aftermath for Catholics was brutal; among other casualties was the death through torture of St. Nicholas Owen, builder of priest-holes and unofficial patron saint of survivalist retreats. Fawkes himself managed to jump from the gallows and break his neck, which saved him from living to see his genitals removed and burnt and his viscera removed.
I thought this blog was about freedom, not persecution.--Anon
Help, help, I'm being repressed!--Dennis from "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
Sheesh! You can't even correct an historical inaccuracy these days without being accused of bigotry.
MALTHUS
Well, the headline IS deliberately misleading and provocative, but for CNN that is not unusual; it is good to see that someone wants to point out that the Gunpowder Plot was not about anarchists or OWSer scumbags, but they did bury the key sentence -
"What they were looking for was either Catholic supremacy **or** at least a government set up where Catholics have full toleration,” Sharpe said. -
way down in the article.
History does not note Fawkes, or the others, as being Catholic 'supremacists', who would have insisted that people convert to Catholicism; but it would have been more accurate to call them 'anti-Anglican Supremacists' since the Anglican Church was indeed the one insisting that Catholics convert or be burned, tortured, imprisoned, have their lands taken, etc.
yeah the OWS and Anon movement are using it because of the film and comic book not the original gunpowder plot. The comic uses the image because V was a product of his government and yet rebeled against it and its tyranny. His efforts were met with further nationalism on the part of the government very much like Fawkes own day. Individuals in the comic are singled out for persecution on the vaguest of charges very much like Fawkes time. In shor its more about the comic than the original man.
Grenadier1
Oh, and there was no "Protestant" interference in government?
Not much different (in terms of misunderstood symbols) than the fools running around with Che t-shirts, not realizing he was a mass-murderer.
The reason for the mask waas that he had been horribly disfigured in a fire, so...
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