Thank you, "Zorro," for helping to publicize this issue. Can we have an acknowledgement on this from ATF without calling Congress?

Little Jimmy Vann does his Zorro impression.. The wall ain't the only thing "Zorro" pissed on

Folks,


When we last left CleanUpATF.org, FNG Enufsenuf had indicated that the ATF had determined (and published) that a pistol grip shotgun (without folding stock, mind you) was NOT a shotgun but a pistol. Now here is Gandalf123's pertinent question, both quoting and reacting to that post:

gandalf23

Posted Yesterday, 01:09 PM

Enufsenuf, on 11 March 2010 - 08:47 PM, said:

Ok, being an old-timer, I have an FFL Newsletter (1990 Volume 1, page 4) which addresses PG shotguns and the interpretation by ATF that these firearms are not "shotguns" under the GCA. This same issue was addressed again in a February 1999 FFL Newsletter (page 3), again stating that a PG shotgun is not a "shotgun" under the GCA. So the masked man was correct in that this issue has been around for a long time. We old-timers may be old, but we still got some smarts . . . and a memory to boot! The "other" category of firearms is relatively new (2008), but the PG shotgun issue is not.

This may be the wrong venue to ask these questions, and I apologize in advance if it is, but...

I've got a 12 gauge Mossberg that I bought new from Academy Sports a few years ago. It's the pistol gripped Persuader model. Am I understanding this correctly that this firearm is not considered a shotgun? If that is correct, is there a legal minimum barrel length on a "firearm" or "other" firearm? My understanding is that rifles must have a minimum of 16 inches of barrel, and shotguns 18. But I can't find a reference to a minimum length on a "firearm" or "other".

If I cut the barrel of my Mossberg so that is it even with the magazine tube, and thus under 18 inches, is that legal since the Mossberg is not a shotgun but is a "firearm" or "other"?

If the "firearm" or "other" classification is correct, does that classification go away when a traditional buttstock (not just a pistol grip in other words) is added to the firearm? My understanding, as a non-ATF, non-FFL person, is that if I take the stock off my rifle and put a pistol grip on it, it does not then become a pistol, it stays a rifle. And if the overall length when I do that is under 26 inches it becomes a NFA item, a Short Barreled Rifle. So by that logic, it would seem to me that adding a traditional buttstock to my Mossberg does not transform it into a shotgun, it would continue to stay a "firearm" or "other" since that's what is was originally, but maybe I am wrong there.

If adding a traditional buttstock to my Mossberg Persuader does not transform it into a shotgun, then it could legally have an under 18 inch barrel, correct? Since it would still be a "firearm" or "other" and not a "shotgun".

Again, sorry if this is the wrong place to ask about this, but this is very confusing for a layperson to figure out. I have asked three FFLs about it this weekend, and they could not come to a decision, and the young fella I talked to at the ATF office said it was a shotgun to begin with, not an "other" or "firearm" and seemed to get annoyed when I asked about the newsletters referenced in previous posts.

Just so y'all know, I have no nefarious purpose in store for this gun. I bought it because it fits inside the toolbox on my truck. And I thought it would be great to have for coyotes and armadillos and putting down the occasional deer that's hit by a car (which happens a lot out here), and not be too expensive to worry about it banging around in the toolbox. But after shooting it a bit, I decided I really don't like a pistolgrip-only shotgun. It hurts my hands, and it's not all that accurate. I'd like to add a buttstock to it, but then it's too long for my toolbox. But if I can trim the barrel a bit it'll still fit. Unfortunately the barrel would need to be trimmed to less than 18 inches. And I have thought about adding a folding or collapsible buttstock, but the ones I have looked at are just not that comfortable to me. I'd like a nice solid buttstock, so it's just like shooting my other shotguns, and heck my rifle for that matter.

Anyway, sorry to ramble on a bit there. Thanks in advance for the help, or for pointing me in the right direction.

The Mossberg 500 Cruiser.

OK, folks, now here's the straight skinny from Waldo, the patriotic snitch on the fifth floor of the "Concrete Asshole of the Universe."

IF you have a Mossberg Cruiser that you KNOW came from the factory with a pistol grip AND

IF you have never installed a standard or folding stock on it THEN

Internal ATF documents indicate that they cannot and will not prosecute anybody for shortening the barrel of their 12 Gauge pistol.

Of course, if you ever put a stock on it of any kind, or, I suspect, even possess one along with the shortened Mossberg, then I expect the ATF would fry you.

BUT, I think that this issue is ripe for a Congressional clarification moment. (And, Oh, how the agency hates those!)

So, boys and girls, write the ATF and then write your congresscritters when the ATF doesn't respond. Let's see if we can get this hole in their regulatory shorts on a piece of paper outside the agency where EVERYBODY can see it.

And "Zorro"? THANKS ever so much for helping publicize this issue. The wall isn't the only thing you pissed on. Hope your bosses like THAT.


Mike
III