Tuesday, August 6, 2013

"Remember Pearl Harbor." Hiroshima, Obama and the Lessons of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

The arguments continue over the use of the atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Henry I. Miller writes in Forbes that "The Nuking Of Japan Was A Tactical And Moral Imperative." Robert Fisk writes in the Independent that the bombings were without a doubt war crimes.
Having been raised around veterans who thanked God every time the subject came up that they didn't have to invade Japan, I tend to agree with Miller rather than Fisk. Certainly if Japan had procured atomic weapons before us they would not have hesitated to use them on us or anyone else, no matter how many innocents they would have killed in the process. Nor would they be losing any sleep over it today, as demonstrated by their continued denial of brutal historical reality with their convenient amnesia about subjects like the treatment of POWs, the rape of Nanking and "comfort women."
The unanimous opinion of those veterans I grew up around could be summed up in one question that I must have heard a hundred times: "What did they expect after Pearl Harbor?" Pearl Harbor was the fatal overreach. It united the country in wave of patriotism that had swept these men into a fight they were determined to win. They knew what the Japanese were going to get after Pearl Harbor, even if they didn't yet know the cost to themselves. But as for the Japanese, well, what they EXPECTED was victory over the soft, unprepared and, it must be admitted, arrogant Americans. What they GOT was Hiroshima, Nagasaki and abject defeat. Even without the atomic bombs, though, Curtis Lemay would have made sure with standard incendiary bombs that there weren't two unburned houses side by side in all of Japan.
The Japanese didn't expect that on 7 December 1941. They were collectivist little "Sons of Heaven" and they served their Emperor in the sure and certain knowledge that they would win. In that they shared the arrogance of all collectivist regimes of whatever stripe throughout history including, it must be said, the current crop led by Barack Obama. The Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor because they could, and because they expected that by doing so they would win the war. They damn near did, you know, because the United States gave them every expectation by its inaction that they could. The Obamanoids are attacking individual liberty in this country root and branch because our of own inaction -- because they have yet to be convinced that such behavior will have unintended consequences for THEM. That is our fault.
However, just because the Law of Unintended Consequences has yet to be enforced upon them, as it was on the Japanese after Pearl Harbor, doesn't mean it has been repealed. It hasn't. It can't be.
Hideki Tojo at his war crimes trial.
I expect that the current collectivist crop of domestic enemies of the Constitution will likely overreach at some point. They have every bit of the ignorance and the arrogance that the Japanese had on 6 December 1941. And when they attack their own people -- in surety of their expectation that they can win without consequence to themselves -- they will discover with shock that Fourth Generation Warfare in an American context will make that move even more personally suicidal to them than Pearl Harbor was to the Japanese militarists. The difference will be that while the Japanese embraced suicide in their warrior code of Bushido, these 21st Century collectivists are all appetite and no courage. It will not take four years and the deaths of countless innocents to change their war-making minds. Samurai they ain't.
So on this Hiroshima anniversary day, I would helpfully suggest that our collectivist leaders consider history and the Law of Unintended Consequences before it bites them where they live. If they need any counseling along those lines perhaps they can consult Tojo, if they can summon his shade from Hell.
Tojo ready to dance the executioner's jig.

19 comments:

Dakota said...

They aren't that smart Mike. They are living in a bubble and believe themselves to be like "Gods" in their self proclaimed wisdom. The reasons you have touched on many times and probably a few we haven't thought of.

Mt Top Patriot said...

Thanks for saying that Mike.

In regards rumbling and a stirring of unintended consequences, nicedeb wrote a piece you might find interesting.

"The Regime Has a Stranglehold on the Republic and it’s not Letting Go"

http://nicedeb.wordpress.com/2013/08/05/the-regime-has-a-stranglehold-on-the-republic-and-its-not-letting-go/

Anonymous said...

Is the guy in the background actually pulling the hangman's lever?

Holy shit....you gotta love that expression if he is.

AJ said...

Well, actually, Japan had been backed into a corner by the US via embargos and other acts of war. Not to mention directly attacking Japanese troops in China.
They knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, and got the entire carrier fleet out to safety. FDR wanted the US in the war so bad he could taste it. Nothing was done to head off the Japanese attack.
Also, Japan had been trying to surrender for weeks before Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The monsters in charge wanted to have real life tests of the two types of bombs, and they wanted to send a message to the Soviets.
May FDR and Truman both enjoy hell.

Sean said...

An dat', is da name a dat tune.

Anonymous said...

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were acts of MERCY. It was either that or extermination. People today don't realize how hard the Japanese were fighting, we've forgotten it.

When asked why he dropped the bombs on Japan, Truman gave a simple answer:

"The Battle of Okinawa." At that point, April 1945, the war was obviously over; We had won, and it was obvious that the Japanese had lost. The result? About 12,000 American dead, and over 95,000 Japanese dead over about 82 days of some of the hardest fighting ever seen in human history on a tiny, seemingly insignificant island.

The Battle of Okinawa was not the exception. It was the latest in a long line of bloodshed. Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Midway, Corral Sea.

The Japanese just didn't quit. We had to even change the wording for POWs from "I surrender" to "I cease resistance." at the suggestion of other Japanese POWs to get them to give up fighting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:I_cease_resistance.jpg

It was almost like the Japanese didn't even have a word for "to give up."

If the Emperor hadn't ordered the surrender, and broadcasted his order over all of Japan, today the Japanese would be all but extinct.

When the emperor did give the order to surrender it was like turning on a light-switch, Like night and day. Men who would not think twice about doing a banzai charge, laid down their arms, and started cleaning up the rubble.

The next generation who came of age right after WW2 had more freedom in many ways than any other generation in Japan. Drive a Honda? Thank a post-WW2 Japanese for that. Wear a Casio G-Shock watch? A post-WW2 Japanese made that. Do your kids watch some silly Anime? Post-WW2 Japan. Nintendo Wii? Post-WW2 Japan. Playstation? You guessed it. I could go on, but you get the picture.

Geoff B said...

Anyone wishing to learn how the Japanese waged war should read "Prisoners of the Japanese" by Gavin Daws. Exquisitely researched account follows the fates of several contingents of Allied POWs in the "zone of captivity" in the Pacific theater, beginning with a definitive account of the Bataan Death March and the events leading up thereto.

G3Ken said...

Acts of MERCY? Anonymous has obviously been educated, or rather re-educated, by the American public school system.

I do not doubt the heinous war crimes of Japanese soldiers, the murders, rapes and general inhumanity perpetrated by them. They were horrible men, and they were likely deserving of death. The thing is, THEY weren't the ones who died in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

Our soldiers and Marines fought brutally as well, and despite the atrocity that was the internment of Japanese-Americans in relocation/concentration camps, I will never argue that Americans were on par with the Japanese.

The thing is, the Japanese were defeated far earlier than August 1945 and were seeking a way to end the war and "save face". Our leadership insisted on unconditional surrender and permitting the Emperor to stand trial for war crimes was a non-starter for the Japanese. So, the war dragged on, and so did the meat-grinder that was the island hopping campaign. It didn't have to happen and in the end, the Japanese got what they wanted: the Emperor was spared.

The LIE of one million casualties avoided by not having to invade the mainland was introduced. The blame for the needless deaths of how many young men on so many islands in the South Pacific was conveniently placed at the feet of the Japanese.

Sure, they died at the hands of the Japanese, that cannot be denied, but our government was complicit in their deaths.

We got to show Josef Stalin that we had the biggest toy and he best not f*** with us. How much time did that buy us?

The truth is,government lies, whether it be Lincoln, Truman or whoever is currently in charge. Funny how people distrust the government today, but believe everything in the past was as it is told. Look up what Eisenhower had to say about the bombs. He was in a far better position to judge than any of us.

Anonymous said...

One should read up on the planned invasions of the Japanese home islands (Operation Downfall and its component parts; Operations Olympic and Coronet). Given the projections of a million American casualties by Fall 1946 and several times that for the Japanese, one needs to take into consideration the probability that the attacks of August 6 (some 100,000 dead) and August 9 (some 90,000 dead) of 1945 in fact SAVED the lives of many if not tens of millions of people.

Paul X said...

"Certainly if Japan had procured atomic weapons before us they would not have hesitated to use them on us or anyone else..."

Ah, mass murder by others justifies our own mass murder. But not quite, since we were the only ones who actually did it.

AJ is correct, there is a lot more information available about the start of the war than when we were school kids in the indoctrination centers.

Wars happen because it benefits the ruling class and their cronies. For ordinary peons it is a loss even if you happen to be on the "winning" side. Wars also vastly enlarge the state.

To me the only silver lining on the Hiroshima and Nagasaki mushroom clouds, is that the horror was so great (with such little bombs by 1960's standards) that it may have had some positive deterrent effect on the cold warriors. The cost of a habitable world in 1980 or so was the deaths of those civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. At least they had that - unlike those who died so pointlessly in Dresden and Hamburg.

http://rense.com/general19/flame.htm

Akatsukami said...

AJ and G3Ken conveniently forget that the Japanese offer was to go back to the status quo of 1931.

Anonymous said...

The Japanese strategy at Okinawa was to bleed us as badly as they could in an effort to bring about a negotiated peace where they thought they could get favorable terms. Their theory was that the bloodshed would be so terrible that we would do ANYTHING to avoid the necessity of invading the home islands. They got their wish, it just wasn't what they expected.

Anonymous said...

My Dad was on duty at Pearl in '41, [ I was 11 years old ] and we lived on high ground over looking Battleship row 1.2 miles from the Battleships. Jap torpedo planes came by our home less than 200 FEET away as they went in to get the ships. My brother and I watched the entire attack from the first Jap dive bombers to hit Ford Island at 7:55 am in the center of Pearl Harbor to last high level attack hours later. It has never bothered me that Japan got Nuc-ed to end the war.

REF AJ's comments -
"They knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, and got the entire carrier fleet out to safety. FDR wanted the US in the war so bad he could taste it. Nothing was done to head off the Japanese attack." { AJ - I agree that FDR knew that the Jap fleet was unaccounted for. My Dad told us within days of the attack, Washington had info on the Jap fleet movements, but I would add no one at PH knew of an impending attack. What is your sourse for the comment that the carriers at PH were intentionally put to sea to avoid the Sunday attack?
Also, " Japan had been trying to surrender for weeks before Hiroshima and Nagasaki." {Also AJ - I've not seen that comment before about any attempts to surrender prior to our Nuc attack... source?] "The monsters in charge wanted to have real life tests of the two types of bombs, and they wanted to send a message to the Soviets." Sure agree that FDR is warm and cozy in Hell for many reasons.

An Old Soldier III & OK
San Antonio, Texas

Anonymous said...

I was at a reunion of the TLC Brotherhood (Thailand,Laos,Cambodia) Veterans in Atlanta a few years ago. One of the guest speakers was the Navigator from the Enola Gay (who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima). He told us about how the Japs would fight to the last man, thus killing a lot of Americans while they would eventually all be killed. I consider the dropping of the bomb to be a merciful thing since a prolonged war might have led to my Father & his brothers not surviving.

AJ said...

It's late and I'm tired and more than a little tipped over. Here's some light reading.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/fdr_provoked_the_japanese_attack.htm

Ed said...

"Despite the best that has been done by everyone--the gallant fighting of our military and naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of out servants of the State and the devoted service of our 100,000,000 people--the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.

Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. " - Emperor Hirohito 14 August 1945.

Hirohito and Nagasaki were chosen because they had not been firebombed, yet, like Tokyo and other cities already were. If the point was just destruction of cities, firestorms could have accomplished that. Japanese casualties had we invaded Kyushu would have been much higher than those suffered in August 1945. Japanese casualties, if the Soviet Union had also invaded Japan, would also have been higher.

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2011/08/07/why_did_japan_surrender/

Ask the Chinese how well the Japanese behaved when they invaded China.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Sean said...

The Japs had it coming. Piss on em'.

RVN11B said...

Simplistic as all hell but this is the way I feel about it.

They pulled the trigger first. We dropped the bombs.

They surrendered.

We won.

All else it hot air.

G3Ken said...

It's argued the Branch Dividians fired first. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but David Koresh could
ve been arrested along the side of the road, avoiding all the bloodshed.

But hey, using your logic. piss on those little kids who got gassed.

Amazed that nobody believes the .gov narrative of 1993, but have swallowed it whole after 45.