The day some cop with a barely three-digit IQ (and that within the margin of error of the test) gets to play JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER is the day Liberty died.
To quote the Good Book, "It stinketh."
It's easy to make anything appear sinister when you get to cherry pick the facts, innuendo and presentation. How many Only Ones could withstand a surveillance smear? Few. Very few.
Not that it matters. We now live under the Law of the Jungle. It's every man for himself and "right and wrong" have nothing to do with survival.
Even if Guerena is as bad as they say he is, busting his door in while his wife and children are there is wrong. They should have picked him up on the way home from work or minimized the potential for conflict. They did neither. After all, isn't that the rational behind the INSC decision, minimizing conflict?
Yup. All that blah, blah, blah, and no body found anything related to criminal activities at the residence...
The fact remains that they shot an innocent man to death, who was attempting to protect his family.
I wonder when they'll release the other video they have of the "shootout." Any bets that they don't?
As far as they are concerned this is over and unless they can't pay off the widow and she drags their asses into court, we never will. But we still know what happened and an innocent man is still dead.
I obviously no longer believe what the "authorities" tell me and don't trust them anymore either. Strange situation to be in for an ex-cop.
Multiple police officers and retired police officers have said that they would be laughed out of court for that affidavit. They feel it's a legalized fishing expedition without real probable cause that essentially looks for "bad stuff I can use".
I'd still like to see the actual warrant that was issued. That assumes a warrant actually was issued.
I noticed was that Tisch at one point states that "Jose Guerena is employed by ASARCO LLC and income verification was completed. Jose earns about $41000.00 per year before taxes."
And the later in the document he says about the group of individuals which includes Jose Guerena that "There is no pattern to suggest that a legitimate work routine exists. No one ever went to a place of business and stayed for any significant amount of time."
If Tisch is so careless as to make an inherently inaccurate statement in his affidavit, how can anyone trust the rest of the declarations he makes without independent verification?
SO - he had relatives that visited his house that were suspected (not there there was much hard evidence against them either) of being drug dealers. Never was there any credible suspicion of Jose himself other than he has too many vehicles in his name and a relative drove one of those vehicles.
WTF is the "Department of Economic Security"??? Anyone notice that?
BTW, I follow strange cars acting in a strange manner until they leave my AO, too. Routinely. It doesn't matter what clothes (unifrom) they wear, peeping toms, murderers, home invaders, and terrorists are unwelcome in my area. Guess that means I'm a potential criminal.
They followed and watched these people on a daily basis. The "low risk" approach would be to take him in public, outside of his home. Once this was done, his home could be entered safely.
Of course, that assumes that more than a fishing expedition was being planned.
The details are unimportant, though, really. He was murdered unnecessarily by a state-sponsored hit team.
Enforce the law, sure. But for crying out loud, if your title is "LEO", obey they law you claim to enforce.
When LEOs kill a citizen by "mistake", they get paid time off. When a citizen kills another by mistake, he goes to prison.
Pima County LEOs, you want to be "law enforcement officers"?
@ ARCTIC Patriot - I disagree - if these lying, cowardly bastards want to do something for the sake of the law, they should each go home and in the presence of their families, put a bullet through their brains.
And again, the only lesson from this is, they were a death squad who wanted to murder this man for whatever reason,thus he had NOTHING to lose by taking out the first few. If he was scheduled to be killed, then planting a few of the murderers in the dirt would have been a better way to go. Just like in combat. the old saying is, "Never die with a full magazine."
This mess, and others like it, have me thinking that the home entry method of arresting people and serving warrants is actually preferred. What happens inside is not generally subject to witnesses, and those that do witness the activities are always associated with criminal activity, so their testimony is "suspect".
Better to do a thing in the dark than in the light. Also, they were surveilling him. They KNEW he was off work just hours before and most likely very tired. Best time to get someone is when he's out of it. ... in his home ... with no credible witnesses ...
I believe more and more that homes should be hardened against entry.
"Department of Economic Security"- It is the health and welfare division of Arizona. They handle welfare, unemployment, state disibility payments and applications etc...
I want to see that warrant.... The cops are trying to build their case in the court of public opinion and that does not feed the bulldog.. Show us the actual warrant with Guerenas name on it and what they were looking for as per the 4th amendment...
I notice that Det. Tisch now has a very large target painted on himself. Anyone out there with just a slight hint of justice should note that he was THE ONE to start all this, his name is all over this as the HMFIC of a murder of an innocent husband, father and former Marine. Time to feed the hogs!!
I would have no reason to believe that armed men breaking down my door were cops either since I am not a criminal. I would have been in the same position as Jose, moving toward the door armed. Like MANY people have mentioned there is NO need for militarized police units storming people's residences. This is absurd and needs to end. The war on drugs has turned into a war on America. I hope these murdering thugs meet the same fate and die at the wrong end of a gun....
No. 1 - I think the warrant is available on-line. No. 2 - the only mistake that Jose Guerena made was forgetting his safety. As ParaPacem said, as long as you're gonna die anyway, might as well make 'em pay a very high price for the fight.
20 comments:
The day some cop with a barely three-digit IQ (and that within the margin of error of the test) gets to play JUDGE, JURY AND EXECUTIONER is the day Liberty died.
To quote the Good Book, "It stinketh."
It's easy to make anything appear sinister when you get to cherry pick the facts, innuendo and presentation. How many Only Ones could withstand a surveillance smear? Few. Very few.
Not that it matters. We now live under the Law of the Jungle. It's every man for himself and "right and wrong" have nothing to do with survival.
Even if Guerena is as bad as they say he is, busting his door in while his wife and children are there is wrong. They should have picked him up on the way home from work or minimized the potential for conflict. They did neither. After all, isn't that the rational behind the INSC decision, minimizing conflict?
Yup. All that blah, blah, blah, and no body found anything related to criminal activities at the residence...
The fact remains that they shot an innocent man to death, who was attempting to protect his family.
I wonder when they'll release the other video they have of the "shootout." Any bets that they don't?
As far as they are concerned this is over and unless they can't pay off the widow and she drags their asses into court, we never will. But we still know what happened and an innocent man is still dead.
I obviously no longer believe what the "authorities" tell me and don't trust them anymore either. Strange situation to be in for an ex-cop.
Spirit of 1776, the day an un-elected czar gets to order such an event absolves any free man of what he may do to preserve his liberty.
Multiple police officers and retired police officers have said that they would be laughed out of court for that affidavit. They feel it's a legalized fishing expedition without real probable cause that essentially looks for "bad stuff I can use".
I'd still like to see the actual warrant that was issued. That assumes a warrant actually was issued.
I noticed was that Tisch at one point states that "Jose Guerena is employed by ASARCO LLC and income verification was completed. Jose earns about $41000.00 per year before taxes."
And the later in the document he says about the group of individuals which includes Jose Guerena that "There is no pattern to suggest that a legitimate work routine exists. No one ever went to a place of business and stayed for any significant amount of time."
If Tisch is so careless as to make an inherently inaccurate statement in his affidavit, how can anyone trust the rest of the declarations he makes without independent verification?
SO - he had relatives that visited his house that were suspected (not there there was much hard evidence against them either) of being drug dealers. Never was there any credible suspicion of Jose himself other than he has too many vehicles in his name and a relative drove one of those vehicles.
Bet that redacted section is interesting.
WTF is the "Department of Economic Security"??? Anyone notice that?
BTW, I follow strange cars acting in a strange manner until they leave my AO, too. Routinely. It doesn't matter what clothes (unifrom) they wear, peeping toms, murderers, home invaders, and terrorists are unwelcome in my area. Guess that means I'm a potential criminal.
They followed and watched these people on a daily basis. The "low risk" approach would be to take him in public, outside of his home. Once this was done, his home could be entered safely.
Of course, that assumes that more than a fishing expedition was being planned.
The details are unimportant, though, really. He was murdered unnecessarily by a state-sponsored hit team.
Enforce the law, sure. But for crying out loud, if your title is "LEO", obey they law you claim to enforce.
When LEOs kill a citizen by "mistake", they get paid time off. When a citizen kills another by mistake, he goes to prison.
Pima County LEOs, you want to be "law enforcement officers"?
Turn yourselves in.
AP
@ ARCTIC Patriot - I disagree - if these lying, cowardly bastards want to do something for the sake of the law, they should each go home and in the presence of their families, put a bullet through their brains.
And again, the only lesson from this is, they were a death squad who wanted to murder this man for whatever reason,thus he had NOTHING to lose by taking out the first few. If he was scheduled to be killed, then planting a few of the murderers in the dirt would have been a better way to go. Just like in combat. the old saying is, "Never die with a full magazine."
This mess, and others like it, have me thinking that the home entry method of arresting people and serving warrants is actually preferred. What happens inside is not generally subject to witnesses, and those that do witness the activities are always associated with criminal activity, so their testimony is "suspect".
Better to do a thing in the dark than in the light. Also, they were surveilling him. They KNEW he was off work just hours before and most likely very tired. Best time to get someone is when he's out of it. ... in his home ... with no credible witnesses ...
I believe more and more that homes should be hardened against entry.
First Jose then Kenneth. Do these qualify as "Waco's"?
FYI_
"Department of Economic Security"- It is the health and welfare division of Arizona. They handle welfare, unemployment, state disibility payments and applications etc...
I want to see that warrant.... The cops are trying to build their case in the court of public opinion and that does not feed the bulldog.. Show us the actual warrant with Guerenas name on it and what they were looking for as per the 4th amendment...
I notice that Det. Tisch now has a very large target painted on himself. Anyone out there with just a slight hint of justice should note that he was THE ONE to start all this, his name is all over this as the HMFIC of a murder of an innocent husband, father and former Marine. Time to feed the hogs!!
The detective needs to get his money back from the college that gave him his degree. He cannot spell nor compose at even the high school level.
Dupnik as well as the detective need to be hauled in front of a Grand Jury and tried for 1st Degree murder - plain and simple.
I would have no reason to believe that armed men breaking down my door were cops either since I am not a criminal. I would have been in the same position as Jose, moving toward the door armed. Like MANY people have mentioned there is NO need for militarized police units storming people's residences. This is absurd and needs to end. The war on drugs has turned into a war on America. I hope these murdering thugs meet the same fate and die at the wrong end of a gun....
SEMPER FI!!!
Looks like history is repeating it's self. In the words of Pastor Martin Niemoller. First They Came...
@ Anonymous said...
Looks like history is repeating it's self. In the words of Pastor Martin Niemoller. First They Came...
I still have Saiga 12 to look out for me and I will damn sure use it. Remember, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!!!
@Anonymous: "Looks like history is repeating it's self. In the words of Pastor Martin Niemoller. First They Came..."
First they came for the communists? If you look closely, the communists are running things and consolidating power.
No. 1 - I think the warrant is available on-line. No. 2 - the only mistake that Jose Guerena made was forgetting his safety. As ParaPacem said, as long as you're gonna die anyway, might as well make 'em pay a very high price for the fight.
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