was in wally world the other day and took a gander at the ammo shelf...as usual no 22LR...223 cal...lots of 224, 6MM, 7MM, and, believe it or not, 30.06 maybe investing in what was considered an oddball might not be a bad idea....
Some saw the writing on the wall 4+ years ago and invested in much ammunition, reloading supplies and also "other" caliber firearms.
An example: .243 Win and .25-06 cartridge cases can be formed from .308 and .30-06 cases. Bullets for both are readily available. The .243 can launch a 95 gr projectile at 3000fps and a .25-06 can launch a 115 gr projectile at 3100fps.
Never thought it made sense to limit one's arsenal to one or two calibers.
Years ago, I made a point to pick up an assortment of used arms in various calibers. Usually very inexpensively. The SKS, the Mosin, the Mauser, the good ol' S&W .38.
The old arms are fun collect. They used to be cheap and plentiful. And having a mix of calibers means your odds of finding ammo to fit at least one of 'em in times of scarcity are probably way better than if you're limited to just the most popular stuff like .223 or 9mm.
Actually, I sold my SAR2 AK74 in the parking lot of the gun show a few weeks ago, along with the ammo. Walked out with a two Lee Enfields, dies for .303, and a modest pile of cash left over.
I took the cash and bought casings and bullets. I've been working up loads with powder and primers that I already have. I'm making rounds for around 75 cents, all in.... .223 prices are better than a dollar a round, if you can find them at all.
I like the .303 because you can pull bullets from 7.62x39. I was given a bunch of these lacquered steel case that had rusted.... Bullets from 7.62x54r are also interchangeable.
Not sure how it works out, but one more recruit in my CIDG will be armed with something more than the ole side by side double barrel that has been sitting behind the kitchen door for years....
Yep - 123gr 7.62 X 39 projectiles zip out of a 303Brit at 2900 fps with less recoil than standard rounds. So with a few stripper clips and some practice one can pump out over 30 AIMED rounds per minute till the clipped ammo runs out or your arm falls off!
Don't forget to police your steel cases because they can be reloaded either by converting your boxer primers to berdan or converting your cases to boxer.
For 54r you need to add a piece of 1/4 inch copper water tube to seat a large rifle primer swaging your primer pocket.
Widener's has 440rds Russian copper washed for about 113.00 shipped, or did.
The Mosin and its 7.62x54R caliber make for a fine combo in my opinion. For sure, it's not a sexy evil black rifle, but it's been making people disappear since 1891.
I think it could be plenty adequate for "social work" if need be.
Dunno where Oleg is getting those prices. Haven't seen .303 for less than $30 a box/20 for several years. Haven't even seen any on the shelves at my local dealer's lately. Of course, he's right in using the 'oddball' calibers for practice. If one has a 44-70 or some other cowboy caliber weapon. As it stands, I've more weapons than I can carry or distribute and not enough greenbacks to purchase any of those odd-ball rifles to practice with. Much easier and cheaper to just reload a few rounds, do lots of dry-fire and FOF training.
There is plenty of 7.62x54R available for a reasonable price at my local gun store. The store also has Mosin-Nagant rifles (new) in box with sling, etc. for $149. Maybe he's gone up to $179 by now. If you have such things locally and can do it, get one for yourself and a case of ammo. This is the rifle the Russians used to defend Stalingrad against the Germans in WWII. - Old Greybeard
Hilarious statement! Ninety percent of Nazi casualties were inflicted by an army armed with these. It's very possible that no rifle has been used more, and more successfully, in social encounters.
I was just making a comment this morning to a guy at Chinamart that I had met last week at Academy...words to the effect that maybe I should pick up a .243 or .270 or 7mm Rem Mag, since the ammo is plentiful (not cheap, but plentiful). Reloading is a bit problematic with today's shortages, but that's true for all calibers.
Oh, and the 7.62x54 is a devastating round shot out of a rifle that is the bolt-action version of the AK-47, i.e. reliable in ALL circumstances. Not pretty or accurate, but utterly reliable.
As for Mosin "not accurate..." the best group I've ever shot was with a Mosin made at Tula Arsenal in 1933... 5 rounds left something looking like a ragged dime at 100 yards. I don't believe these are inaccurate at all.
Ballistically the 7.62x54R is about like a .30-06 or .308. I don't like the safeties and they are longer than necessary, but otherwise these are perfectly good bolt rifles.
When it comes to practicing, don't overlook airsoft guns and pellet guns. You can sharpen your sight picture, trigger management, etc., using these guns. Airsoft guns can be used indoors to practice moving and shooting. Wear a longsleeved shirt and goggles, and you can even practice force on force.
The 30-06 case may be formed into many wildcat and standard cartridges.
One of the best cartridges is .35 Whelen, made from the 30-06 case, with its 250 grain bullet, both cast hard lead with gas check and jacketed. The 250 grain cast bullet may be driven at 2,100 fps and the 250 jacketed at 2,500 fps.
The .35 Whelen, the poor boy's .375H&H is a supberb cartridge.
Stack 30-06 cases to the ceiling. Send some behind enemy lines in Colorado.
20 comments:
was in wally world the other day and took a gander at the ammo shelf...as usual no 22LR...223 cal...lots of 224, 6MM, 7MM, and, believe it or not, 30.06
maybe investing in what was considered an oddball might not be a bad idea....
Some saw the writing on the wall 4+ years ago and invested in much ammunition, reloading supplies and also "other" caliber firearms.
An example: .243 Win and .25-06 cartridge cases can be formed from .308 and .30-06 cases. Bullets for both are readily available. The .243 can launch a 95 gr projectile at 3000fps and a .25-06 can launch a 115 gr projectile at 3100fps.
Both 303 Brit and 7.62 X 54R did sterling work maintaining Empires and worked in both WWI and WWII
Not that much less powerful than .30-06!
III
..."Mosins which are hardly useful for social purposes."
That depends on whose hands they're in.
Besides, you can't find x54R anywhere, either.
Never thought it made sense to limit one's arsenal to one or two calibers.
Years ago, I made a point to pick up an assortment of used arms in various calibers. Usually very inexpensively. The SKS, the Mosin, the Mauser, the good ol' S&W .38.
The old arms are fun collect. They used to be cheap and plentiful. And having a mix of calibers means your odds of finding ammo to fit at least one of 'em in times of scarcity are probably way better than if you're limited to just the most popular stuff like .223 or 9mm.
Actually, I sold my SAR2 AK74 in the parking lot of the gun show a few weeks ago, along with the ammo. Walked out with a two Lee Enfields, dies for .303, and a modest pile of cash left over.
I took the cash and bought casings and bullets. I've been working up loads with powder and primers that I already have. I'm making rounds for around 75 cents, all in.... .223 prices are better than a dollar a round, if you can find them at all.
I like the .303 because you can pull bullets from 7.62x39. I was given a bunch of these lacquered steel case that had rusted.... Bullets from 7.62x54r are also interchangeable.
Not sure how it works out, but one more recruit in my CIDG will be armed with something more than the ole side by side double barrel that has been sitting behind the kitchen door for years....
Yep - 123gr 7.62 X 39 projectiles zip out of a 303Brit at 2900 fps with less recoil than standard rounds. So with a few stripper clips and some practice one can pump out over 30 AIMED rounds per minute till the clipped ammo runs out or your arm falls off!
Super for use in Jungle Carbines.
Old III
Don't forget to police your steel cases because they can be reloaded either by converting your boxer primers to berdan or converting your cases to boxer.
For 54r you need to add a piece of 1/4 inch copper water tube to seat a large rifle primer swaging your primer pocket.
Widener's has 440rds Russian copper washed for about 113.00 shipped, or did.
The Mosin and its 7.62x54R caliber make for a fine combo in my opinion. For sure, it's not a sexy evil black rifle, but it's been making people disappear since 1891.
I think it could be plenty adequate for "social work" if need be.
I was having a chuckle the other day realizing I can shoot my .38 special with my cast lead bullets cheaper than I can any of my .22s at the moment.
Dunno where Oleg is getting those prices. Haven't seen .303 for less than $30 a box/20 for several years. Haven't even seen any on the shelves at my local dealer's lately. Of course, he's right in using the 'oddball' calibers for practice. If one has a 44-70 or some other cowboy caliber weapon. As it stands, I've more weapons than I can carry or distribute and not enough greenbacks to purchase any of those odd-ball rifles to practice with. Much easier and cheaper to just reload a few rounds, do lots of dry-fire and FOF training.
There is plenty of 7.62x54R available for a reasonable price at my local gun store. The store also has Mosin-Nagant rifles (new) in box with sling, etc. for $149. Maybe he's gone up to $179 by now. If you have such things locally and can do it, get one for yourself and a case of ammo. This is the rifle the Russians used to defend Stalingrad against the Germans in WWII.
- Old Greybeard
Ammodeals.com
If you are planning to use the MN for social purposes I pity both you and the recipient.
Mosins "hardly useful for social purposes..."
Hilarious statement! Ninety percent of Nazi casualties were inflicted by an army armed with these. It's very possible that no rifle has been used more, and more successfully, in social encounters.
I was just making a comment this morning to a guy at Chinamart that I had met last week at Academy...words to the effect that maybe I should pick up a .243 or .270 or 7mm Rem Mag, since the ammo is plentiful (not cheap, but plentiful). Reloading is a bit problematic with today's shortages, but that's true for all calibers.
Oh, and the 7.62x54 is a devastating round shot out of a rifle that is the bolt-action version of the AK-47, i.e. reliable in ALL circumstances. Not pretty or accurate, but utterly reliable.
As for Mosin "not accurate..." the best group I've ever shot was with a Mosin made at Tula Arsenal in 1933... 5 rounds left something looking like a ragged dime at 100 yards. I don't believe these are inaccurate at all.
Ballistically the 7.62x54R is about like a .30-06 or .308. I don't like the safeties and they are longer than necessary, but otherwise these are perfectly good bolt rifles.
Mosins also come with bayonets. It is widely understood that their original sights are zeroed with the bayonet afixed.
Since they are not semi-autos the bayonet lug is not prohibited ...
'Fix bayonets!'
They don't like it up 'em.
When it comes to practicing, don't overlook airsoft guns and pellet guns. You can sharpen your sight picture, trigger management, etc., using these guns. Airsoft guns can be used indoors to practice moving and shooting. Wear a longsleeved shirt and goggles, and you can even practice force on force.
The 30-06 case may be formed into many wildcat and standard cartridges.
One of the best cartridges is .35 Whelen, made from the 30-06 case, with its 250 grain bullet, both cast hard lead with gas check and jacketed. The 250 grain cast bullet may be driven at 2,100 fps and the 250 jacketed at 2,500 fps.
The .35 Whelen, the poor boy's .375H&H is a supberb cartridge.
Stack 30-06 cases to the ceiling. Send some behind enemy lines in Colorado.
Hickenshit has a black mustache.
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