"We-re-not-a-goddamn-christian-nation." Two countries, two world views, two contradictory histories. Each irreconcilable with the other.
Was the American Revolution a holy war?
We cannot fully understand the revolution without recognizing such appeals for God’s favor on the battlefield. Both the founders and ministers understood these ideas because they knew scripture, one of the major sources of American patriotism. Colonists fought the Revolutionary War in a society in which the Bible was the most read, most owned and most respected book. John Adams once told Thomas Jefferson, “The Bible is the best book in the world.” Perhaps more important, Adams also called the Bible the world’s “most Republican book” — scripture inspired morality, but it also fueled patriotism.
Fred Rich, on the other hand begs to differ: We’re Not a Christian Nation.
What I found interesting was the wording of the link to Rich's article at the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/07/03/we-re-not-a-goddamn-christian-nation.html. Rich does not use "goddamn" in his article, so presumably the language for the link was provided by some moke at the Daily Beast. Not too hard to figure out which beast they serve.
What is equally plain is that we are now two hostile countries representing two opposing world views, with two contradictory histories. Each is fundamentally irreconcilable with the other. Wars have happened over much less.
10 comments:
I never understood the fuss about the claims this nation was christian or not. Obviously it is in some ways and isn't in others, and the two clans can live peacefully side by side, one of the claims for genius in the creation of America.
I have however run into an amazing claim that the sole Founder of American liberty and actual author of the Declaration of Independence was Thomas Paine! He makes an amazingly good case for it too. Have a listen right here:
http://galambos.com/
Apparently Galambos was a "difficult" individual personally; Harry Browne wrote about that here:
http://www.harrybrowne.org/articles/Galambos.htm
AS we say in the south "it's complicated" America is both a "Christian Nation" and NOT a "Christian Nation".
If you take the time to read the three primary documents from the founders 1) The Deceleration of Independence, 2) The Constitution, and 3) The Bill of Rights, there is no mention of Jesus, and when God is referenced it is only in non specific ways. If there was any intent to encode Christianity, into the legal fabric of our nation they failed to do so. On the other hand, no one doubts that Christianity had huge influence on many of the founders and many of our institutions. The "establishment of religion" portion of the 1st Amendment creates a "hands off" directive. This is one of the gifts from the founders, who having fought and won a war against a foe with a state religion and being aware of the many religious wars in Europe. It ensures that no one one can use the power of the state to oppress another religion or Church. It protect every ones interests, even the non believers. So yes we are and are not a Christian nation. and that's OK
Only individuals can be Christian; Not nations.
Also, we are not a theocracy.
Do you really think so, Mike? The principles of non-aggression and individual sovereignty do not depend on either religion or the bible.
After more than fifty years of study, I have rejected all organized religion, and do not recognize the bible as anything but men writing to guide and inspire other men. Yet for the last 60+ years I have been totally committed to self ownership, non-aggression and complete freedom for all humans everywhere. I know a lot of other non religious people who share that goal.
I partially agree that we are a nation of predominately Christians, yes. But I do not agree that we are a "Christian Nation".
Our Constitution is very much secular. Our Constitution makes no mention to any sort of God, or even religion except for the First Amendment and forbidding "religious test".
There is no mention of the Holy Trinity, there is no mention of Jesus Christ, and why should there be?
Many of the founding fathers didn't believe in Jesus, let alone God the Holy Trinity. Thomas Jefferson took it upon himself to edit out all of the Miracles of Jesus Christ including the Resurrection in his version of "the bible" -- Quite a Protestant thing to do...
The founding fathers of this nation were predominately masonic deists -- an evil anti-Christian organization that numbs the mind with poor thinking if there ever was one. Being masonic deists, it should be no surprise that the nation that they founded eventually turned into a (neo) pagan nightmare that we see today.
There are any number of things they could have written differently in the Constitution to prevent the current crop of madness that we find ourselves in, but they didn't do it.
I personally don't believe we are even a "nation of Christians" to tell the truth. Does this LOOK LIKE A "Nation of Christians"?
With 50 Million+ children having been slaughtered before seeing the light of day in 40 years, out-of-wedlock births going up, fornication running rampent, millions of people who are homeless, gay so-called "marriage" being declared "legal", etc. etc. so no I don't believe we are a "nation of Christians", a better term would be:
"a nation full of people who call themselves 'Christian'"
Fred Rich is a lawyer in Manhattan explains everything that you need to know about him. A constitutional democracy? Not according to Ben Franklin. We may not be a christian nation, but our form of government was designed to be populated with Christians in order to function properly. Only in true Christians indwelled by the Holy Spirit can the morality demanded by our form of government be approached. Look no further for proof than what has been going on the last hundred years culminating in what we see today. Hail satan? Not!
Paul X, without finding out more about the person behind the site you link to, I can tell you I took several courses from Galambos and one thing he took very seriously in life was our moral contractual obligations, one of which was that we agreed, as a condition of course admittance to not disclose the details of his teachings, and certainly not to promiscuously disseminate his actual courses. As I said, I don't know the details behind this "former associate/independent contractor" posting this on a website, but on the surface it appears to be something that would have horrified him. I would be interested to know exactly what rights this person claims to do this.
David, we don't know what arrangements Galambos made with her. I'm not too interested either as *I* made no agreement with him. My interest is in Galambo's ideas, not in Bonnie Lange's contract with him, if any.
The notion of "intellectual property" is of course problematical, would be highly modified if not abandoned outright in a free society such as that Galambos was working for, since there would be no state to enforce it.
Whatever we call ourselves, someone will disagree, and that is how things are. But no one should make this mistake, to believe that Christians are going to be left alone to be Christians. In the Middle East, Far East, and everywhere in between, and in this hemisphere, Christianity is under attack, and its opponents will settle for nothing less than the annihilation of Christianity. So I don't really care what others say, I care about what they have done, and what they do. And this is not a culture war, this is a war of survival.
Anon., please explain what a "masonic Deist" is? It is quite true that many of the founders were Masons, but not all of them were. And, I must add, nowhere in Masonry is there anything that "numbs the mind with poor thinking." If there had been any such thing in Masonry I doubt very much that George Washington or Theodore Roosevelt, just to name two, would have belonged.
Proud Master Mason
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